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What we seem to call "darkpsy" is for me the new "Goa"...
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 10:56
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Quote:
| This is nice, it was Matsuri that was the first to 'kill off' goa trance, not the UK labels. The UK labels were the first to move to full-on though.
As to 'most goa artists' moving to making house music, that's just plainly incorrect - MWNN and Tsuyoshi are one thing, but the vast majority stayed in the psy scene or just stopped making music altogether. |
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I can tell you from personal experience that there was quite a few of the UK labels that was shouting goa trance is dead at that time.
I lived in London around then and know most of the producers that was popular at the time personally, and the ones I still know what they are doing is making house with very few exeptions.
I don't know where you get your ideas from really, but please give examples of the producers who is making psytrance today.
Quality is a subjective word.
You say that most good tracks was released, and I think thats just a reflection of you having a cheezy taste.
I can think of a lot of great dark music that was around at the time that I never been able to find on any release.
Goa DJ's did not buy much records, and there was not much point in trying to release the darker underground sound for normal consumers.
The commercial stuff was what got released, not neccessarily the good stuff that really kicked on parties.
Your list of artists that defined goa sound still look like a list of stuff that was played in the morning during a couple of years and a very very little part of the whole picture.
Most people I know that has been seriously involved in the goa scene since early 90's would just laugh at your statements and feel sorry that people are so clueless about what the goa sound really is about.
I was a Skinny Puppy fan before I got in to goa trance and if it really would have concisted of only melodic morning music I would really not been getting in to it in the first place.
And like someone mentioned earlier, check goa gills charts or listen to some goa oldtimers like Teo or Byzught play a set nowadays. They know the roots and is trying to keep the original goa spirit alive.
  (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 11:50
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I listen (mostly) to IDM and basically every form of dark non-4-on-the-floor music nowadays. Blame me for having pretentious taste, but not for liking cheesy music. The division at goa parties was simple: psychedelia at night, emotion in the morning. With all due respect, 'dark' psy is about as psychedelic as any other full-on track without melodies. I never liked the dark stuff too much, my ideal night music at that time was acidic 303 basslines and acidic leads like Poltergeist - Vicious Circles, not Sandman (even though I liked Nostradamus when it came out just like everyone else - that track must have been unreleased for 2-3 years before it was finally released). I only started liking dark music around 1996... so, in my book, goa was never about the dark stuff. I liked acidtechno much more than most dark goa music at that time.
Doof, Astral Projection, MWNN (isn't making house anymore), Koxbox, Juno Reactor, the Transwave people, Raja Ram, Graham Wood, etc... The list of acts that continue making music in the psytrance scene is really quite long. I only know of 3 artists that make house nowadays that were making goa back in the pre-96 days.
Also - the center of goa music (even the night music) was on the melodies. The center of 'dark' psy is around the bassdrum and bassline. Goa was about analog sound, 'darkpsy' is so screamingly digital that it hurts sometimes. For these facts alone, the comparison is irrelevant at best. So, you can have a track centered too much around melodies... well, you can also have them centered too much around the drive of the track. For each his own. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al
Started Topics :
12
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483
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 12:09
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[/quote]
I can tell you from personal experience that there was quite a few of the UK labels that was shouting goa trance is dead at that time.
I lived in London around then and know most of the producers that was popular at the time personally, and the ones I still know what they are doing is making house with very few exeptions.
I don't know where you get your ideas from really, but please give examples of the producers who is making psytrance today.
Quality is a subjective word.
You say that most good tracks was released, and I think thats just a reflection of you having a cheezy taste.
I can think of a lot of great dark music that was around at the time that I never been able to find on any release.
Goa DJ's did not buy much records, and there was not much point in trying to release the darker underground sound for normal consumers.
The commercial stuff was what got released, not neccessarily the good stuff that really kicked on parties.
Your list of artists that defined goa sound still look like a list of stuff that was played in the morning during a couple of years and a very very little part of the whole picture.
Most people I know that has been seriously involved in the goa scene since early 90's would just laugh at your statements and feel sorry that people are so clueless about what the goa sound really is about.
I was a Skinny Puppy fan before I got in to goa trance and if it really would have concisted of only melodic morning music I would really not been getting in to it in the first place.
And like someone mentioned earlier, check goa gills charts or listen to some goa oldtimers like Teo or Byzught play a set nowadays. They know the roots and is trying to keep the original goa spirit alive.
[/quote] Well said Leo 
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udit
Started Topics :
4
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130
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 13:02
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i love oerebro freakfactory 3 and i think some of the tracks there definately remond me of the oldschool sounds... (if my understanding of goa is correct)
the second half of the cd particulariy is really yummy with nice acid melodic loops i was losing it in my car the other day 
nice job spindrift..
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 13:13
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-02 11:50, kaz wrote:
so, in my book, goa was never about the dark stuff. I liked acidtechno much more than most dark goa music at that time.
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What I'm trying to tell you is that your book is missing a lot of pages, and as such you can't present it as more than an expression for your taste.
Now you state it as that the dark stuff was not in your taste, and thats fine, but before you said "The 'goa' sound is really a melodic thing." and listed what you though "defined the goa sound".
To make it clear you should have said "the goa sound i like is melodic" or "defined the goa sound i like".
There is a huge difference in saying it like that and you would not have made yourself look like someone who pretend to be an authority on the matter without a real clue on the subject.
You still have bad taste and a very limited view of genres in my opinion, but thats your thing and don't bother me.
Edit:
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Thanks udit.....I do my best to try to keep up the spirit of the "good old days" (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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858
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 14:06
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 14:26
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Spindrift... allow me to be blunt.
I liked the dark music once. I got bored of it fast. You are blaming me for making the exact same assumptions you are by saying that my view of genres is limited and that I am controlled by my taste. I listen to more music than just psytrance nowadays, because psytrance has such a limited span of expression compared to a lot of other forms of music. If you'd bother asking what music I listen to, you'd actually notice that I listen to a much wider range of music than most people - and I don't limit myself to genres when judging music. The only judgement I give is my taste, and any other judgement is presumptious bullshit by people who think that big words can cover for a closed mind. You do the same, but you state your taste as FACT.
I said what I defined as the goa sound (because no one ever gave a definition to this genre that everyone agreed on) - the released stuff on the major labels, the stuff I enjoyed at parties, and my DAT collection. You are doing the exact same thing, only you keep saying "I'm right and you're wrong". Well, we're both right from different views, but for some unkown reason, you keep on saying "no, but you're wrong!" instead of saying "for each his own".
I'm a stubborn bastard, but at least I'm considerate enough NOT TO ATTACK PEOPLE ON A PERSONAL LEVEL WHEN THEY DISAGREE WITH ME, something that is appearantly incomprehensible to you. You started with the assumption that you know more than me - and when I stated that I listen to goa/psy/whatever since the early 90s, you didn't even bother to accept that fact and continued talking like it didn't exist. Well, you might know more than me, but you also need to accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, you don't. Until then, I won't even bother with arguing with you anymore, since no matter what I'll say, you'll obviously know better.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 14:49
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To Spindrift
Hello there, I just wanted to comment on this little thing you wrote
"And like someone mentioned earlier, check goa gills charts or listen to some goa oldtimers like Teo or Byzught play a set nowadays. They know the roots and is trying to keep the original goa spirit alive."
Now, Teo, I dont know.
Goa Gil I heard play just the other day, his mixing was better than I had expected (still sucked though), but the track selection was all dark killer psy. Frankly, it was boring the shit out of me. This is just me though, if others liked it, good for them. Checking out his older charts from 1996, they are just about the same as my own - and basicly everyone elses, Doof, AP, Juno Reactor, Cosmosis, Orichalcum etc (just representative of the music that was released back then - I myself was a 17 year old school kid djing at small non drug infested parties back then)
Now, Byzught, that guy just plain sucks at djing - He is, THE WORST, DJ I have ever heard spin. Also, I have heard him lots of times, from 97 and onwards. He also managed to pass out while playing once, it very much looked like an OD. Other than that, he is such an egomaniac... Like once we were going to VooV, he couldnt wait more than 10 minuttes for someone who was late - Then, when we were to go back to Denmark again we waited something like 10 hours for him, and then he decided to stay there after all and chat with old buddies. Luckily, the other people on the trip, were really cool.
If thats "the old goa spirit" - Then for gods sake, let it RIP as matsuri once stated.
I love DJs with philosophies, like Goa Gil has - But you can have all the good intentions in the world, if you cant mix, if you cant vary your set it wont work for me.
What made Byzught "big" was the fact that he had shitloads of music on DAT and there was an aura of "old school charisma" over him. He did have an "ok" track selection in his set, which helped, but everytime he would have to mix, and I mean EVERYTIME, he would completely fuck it up.
All the while, there were other people in the scene, who had already mastered perfect beatmatching and such - but of course, they werent allowed to spin.
And btw, I like ALL genres of psy/progressive - dark, light, ultra light, cheesy, fluffy, killer, murder, genocide trance whatever hehe. Im just stating my experience with especially Byzught!
Regards
Krell
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:01
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-01 17:55, kaz wrote:
The 'pure' goa sound was defined by Astral Projection, MFG, Doof, Juno Reactor's first couple of albums, Koxbox's first album, Green Nuns of the Revolution, Prana and other such acts. Hallucinogen, Koxbox's stuff from Dragontales onwards, Juno Reactor since Bible of Dreams, and all of these acts which people call 'goa' are not goatrance at all.
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Indeed, Astral Projection, MFG, Juno Reactor, Doof, Hallucinogen's Twisted,Koxbox,as well as the early tip releases..
They are the artists who made "goa" a genre of its own and it sure as hell wasn't about darkness..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:07
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To Traveller
Quote "They are the artists who made "goa" a genre of its own and it sure as hell wasn't about darkness.."
Well, some tracks where dark, some tracks werent - but you are right, it wasnt about darkness in particular.
It was about music, trance music - with a psychedelic / weird sounding edge, and sometimes even a bit of humor - Like when Simon P put in a sample in a track saying "I just pissed in my pants, and theres nothing anyone can do about it" hehe.
This all seems like music has become a religion, and people are like catholics and protestants biggering over how the early works should be interpreted.
Dark is just one of the color tones that goes into a painting.
Krell |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:09
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I pretty much agree what they say about GOA and Psychedelic Trance over here
http://www.moodbook.com/music/trance.html
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:10
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:29
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Where did I state my taste as a FACT?
Read my post again please.
I don't think I have stepped on anyones feets in my statements.
You are the one trying to say that goa IS the music that you happen to like personally, which is controversial.
I have reacted to people saying that goa is only dark music, and i reacted to you and traveller saying that goa is by defnition melodic.
I never said that juno, koxbox, doof etc is not goa.
And I did personally like their stuff in the morning in the days.
It's by all mean a fact that thats not all there is to goa music, and that it both have dark roots and thats been present even during the most melodic and cheezy period.
If you read my post more carefully I stated that I hope we still will have dark night music in the night and some melodic stuff in the morning.
I see them both as part of goa music, and to me it seems like you where forgetting about an important part of the genre.
You did not say "what I defined as the goa sound".
The I was not there in your sentence if you care to look again at your original post.
I was agreeing with psytones that the darkpsy have more to do with goa music than the flat and overproduced stuff that is full-on many times.
You where the one who started to argue against that point introducing yourself with "OK, enough of all the know-it-alls here. "
Sure I don't know much about your taste, and I was not discussing that.
I was discussing what in my experience was played on the dance floor in goa thruout the years and how it relates to darkpsy today.
Maybe you think I'm a know it all and is not interested about my views.
But you are the one claiming that "goa was about the melodies".
All I'm trying to maintain is that there was more to goa and you are basically trying to tell me that the music I loved the most collecting, dancing and listening to in the beginning of the 90's was not goa.
Well, then you are stepping on my feet I'm afraid.
And sorry BABA Kaz that I was not acknowledging how impressed I was that you have been collecting since 93.
But I was bit surprised to hear that considereing the views you expressed and I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked by me hinting that some of the opinions expressed here come from people that "know a little bit because i collected CD's since end of 90's".
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:39
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Quote:
| What made Byzught "big" was the fact that he had shitloads of music on DAT and there was an aura of "old school charisma" over him. He did have an "ok" track selection in his set, which helped, but everytime he would have to mix, and I mean EVERYTIME, he would completely fuck it up. |
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I never said he's my favourite DJ and that he mixes great.
And he is sure quite spaced out at times.
But he is one of the real old timers still playing.
Whatever you think about him, Teo and Gill they have a real history with goa music and know more about the goa roots than most other DJ's.
And it's not a coincidence that they all play dark music nowadays.
Many times to dark and fast for my taste as well, but more real goa spirit for sure than when the GMS family show up to play for example.
But I do agree with your view, and thats excatly what I have been trying to say.
Goa is not melodic and it's not dark.
It is both and has always been.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:49
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Spindrift could you please name a few dark goa fames from the early goa times? I'm not talking about DJs but artists who created this dark goa..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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