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50 - 100 Tracks a week! :(

gandharva
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  22
Posts :  338
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 03:02
Quote:

On 2005-02-16 07:10, Ott^ wrote:
I've lost count of the number of people who have come up to me at parties and proudly told me they loved my album so much they just had to download it @ 320k quality "cos it loses so much @ 128k..."

As if I'm supposed to feel flattered.

Fucking thing took me 12 months to make - you'd think that if they like it so much, at least they might help me out with a few quid for my trouble - you know?





hey OTT i downloaded your album and.i like it so much that i buy the original SO ARE YOU PISSED WITH ME ALSO???
and by the way im thinking in buy hallucinogen in dub but you see the problem is that not every one have enough money to by what ever he likes.and i think that you have to respect that .just has i think that people have to respect every ones job .
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 07:44
Quote:

On 2005-02-19 03:02, gandharva wrote:
hey OTT i downloaded your album and.i like it so much that i buy the original SO ARE YOU PISSED WITH ME ALSO???




Of course not. I'm very happy that you like it and even happier that you enjoyed it enough to want to contribute to the expense of getting it out there.


Quote:
and by the way im thinking in buy hallucinogen in dub but you see the problem is that not every one have enough money to by what ever he likes.



I completely understand - and you know what? If you lived in my street I'd be happy to come round and give you a copy for free.

By way of thanks you'd probably make me a cup of tea and maybe we'd smoke some of your hash. You'd think "What a nice guy.." and I'd think "What a nice guy..."

Then I'd leave after a while and we'd both feel like we'd been enriched by the experience. No money would have changed hands but we'd both feel like we were appreciated.

Quote:
and i think that you have to respect that .just has i think that people have to respect every ones job .



That really is it. It just comes down to a bit of mutual respect.

Which brings us nicely back on topic - go and read the first post in this thread and see how respectful Ganjagil is to the people that support his hobby.

I don't know about in other countries, but over here, we used to have free parties which were supported by donations - so everyone could come in for free, but as they leave they are asked to put some money into a bucket to cover diesel for the generator and maybe sound system hire etc. No set amount - just what you can afford.

Many many times I would be at these parties with friends and we would all spend at LEAST £50 - £100 on drugs etc. This was back in the days when one E cost £25 and the same for an 8th of skunk.

So - we'd enjoy the party and it would be time to leave. We'd walk out and there would be people there with donation buckets and maybe every 3rd person would put something in - a few quid maybe - the rest making excuses about how they "can't afford it mate..". These parties always made huge losses even though they were organised for the best motives - and now you hardly ever see them.

The way it is supposed to work is that those who really can't afoord it don't have to pay, while those who can, should. I was always amazed at people who would enjoy the party, consume and take everything that was going [not just drugs], and then say they were too poor to make a donation. They would then get into their £20,000 cars and go back to their £25,000 a year jobs and wait for the next "free party".

These people claimed to live for the free party scene and would spend weeks looking forward to the next one, while all the time slowly killing it with their selfishness.

Nowdays they complain like fuck because there are very few - if any - "free" parties to go to and "its all gone too commercial".

I'm sure everybody can see where they fit into this analogy.

The selfish [well - maybe just lazy?] people are the ones who can well afford to buy whatever records they want but don't, because - "well, you can get them for nothing from Soulseek... so whats the point?"

Many of these live in England and the US and Europe - which makes them some of the wealthiest people on Earth purely by where they happen to live. Many of them live with parents or have well paid jobs that mean they earn more in a month than a Peruvian hill farmer sees in a whole year. They think they are poor because they only have a 1996 Peugeot and can only afford one holiday a year.

They have grown up in a generation who assumes music is free via the internet and can't see the point in CD shops.

This is by no means everyone, but there are enough of them to make them a significant factor.

There are also those who just can't afford to donate anything - but thats ok. Thats the whole point of the donation idea. You only pay what you can afford, and if "nothing" is what you can afford then thats what you pay.

The promoters of this "free" party are the small Psy labels - run by enthusiasts who really believe in the music and vibes and the life-and-species-changing properties of psychedelics.

They know they'll never get rich out of it and they'd be more than happy with a roof over their heads, 3 meals a day and a constant supply of good music to distribute.

They know that file sharing exists, and they know that trying to sell a product that can be had for nothing via the internet is a shaky business prospect to say the least. Still - they are idealists and they work really hard to keep it going. Without them there would be no "scene".

Anyone who runs a small Psy label and who is also a rich capitalist bastard is either dealing coke on the side or has rich parents.



The artists in this analogy are the fortunate ones. They get to have people dance to their music and tell them how great they are. They get money for records and money for gigs [unlike the poor label guys] and they get treated well at most of the parties they play at.

They'd be making the music even if there was no money in it, but the fact that there is means they have a chance to devote all of their energy to what they are good at. They get a lot better deal out of this than the label owners [ever met a "Label Manager groupie?], but couldn't do what they do without them.

They work really hard for long hours and never enjoy the security of a comfortable stable income, but they are usually misfits who couldn't hold down any other job if they tried and so they try to earn their food from making music.

Without them there would be no parties - no scene, no Psy-trance.

Just silence.

There is a special place in this analogy for Spindrift.

He's the guy standing by the door, telling the people with the donation buckets "Guys - your business model is outdated. It is a relic from history. You need to move with the times and adapt..."

Only, nobody is listening because although he does have a point, he simply isn't able to come up with a *working* and viable alternative, and is therefore just shouting into the wind.

Spindrift is a traditional Capitalist, in that he wants to rely upon market solutions to correct problems which arise from matters of conscience and personal responsibility. He has abandoned the idea that people can actually regulate themselves and act for the greater good.

I almost agree with him, although my faith in human nature extends slightly further.




It is a mistake to lump the Psy scene in with the mainstream music scene. The two bear no relationship to one another at all.

Psy labels have one very limited income stream and without it they cannot operate. They rely entirely upon you to buy their CD's to be able to continue.

I can only really speak for Twisted in this, but I *know* that they don't exist to make Simon H and Simon P rich. With the collapse of EFA last year that is definitely not the case I can assure you. They run on pure enthusiasm and a pride in their output and every time they release a record they take a huge finacial risk.

The mainstream music labels have money coming in from huge back catalogues, advertising, stock market portfolios, etc etc and their artists are considered failures if they sell less than 500,000 albums. If you want to know about the major labels, ask me. I worked for them for 10 years.

Forget any comparison between BMG and LSD - there is none.

You wanna go and download loads of Pink Floyd albums? Go ahead. Pink Floyd are all worth a hundred million each. They don't need your £2.

Britney? Go for it - she's worth 70-odd million.

Metallica? I downloaded the Black album just to spite Lars Ulrich. I never listen to it [its shit] but the sound of a multi-millionaire complaining that people are ripping him off for $0.5 is enough to make me want to vomit on him.

Hendrix is dead - he don't care how many times you download Voodoo Chile' - but Shulman, Sub-6, Prometheus, Vibrasphere, Son Kite, Protoculture and me are all alive and well and hoping our labels don't go bust, and trying to earn a meagre living doing what we do best.



KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  116
Posts :  2565
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 12:13
Quote:

On 2005-02-19 07:44, Ott^ wrote:
Many of them live with parents or have well paid jobs that mean they earn more in a month than a Peruvian hill farmer sees in a whole year. They think they are poor because they only have a 1996 Peugeot and can only afford one holiday a year.



OMG.... Ott^ is my neighbour..

Actually i drive a 1996 Peugeot and still live by my parents (who are just divorcing..), but still I know I am one of the richest boys in this world..

Now.. I hope many people will read your text, Ott^, and open their eyes once for all..

          .
.
"Get your dose of BoOgie !"

http://www.bunkum-records.com
http://www.myspace.com/zekakoo
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 14:33
@OTT
I think you got my intentions a bit wrong.

First of all, free parties was never a business.
They where made by people who wanted to give a nice time for people.
I been paying for making parties as well, and sure it's dissapointing to see that people is hardly willing to spen a couple of quid but gladly spen £100 for going out to a bar one night or buy drugs.
But I was never doing the parties expecting to get my investment back.
It was not a business for me, it was about sharing and having fun.

Same goes for the music for me.
I have decided to give it away for free, but cannot afford to have a server where people download FLAC files at no cost. Also people expressed that they would like to pay to support the artists.
So I set up that facility out of respect for the artists and the fans demands. I'm not hoping to make money out of the project. Maybe one day the costs for the server, printer and broadband connection can be paid from what I get in on the site.
In that case I'm grateful.

Of course since I'm working that way I obviously do not think that the model of the major labels is suitable for the type of music I like at least with a very narrow audience.
I sure don't personally think we should "rely upon market solutions to correct problems".
But when labels is discussing the market we are talking about the market.

Maybe I should try to force my opinion on the labels that is trying to make money and tell them that it's bullskit to call the trance market for a market even, because I must say that it seems silly to me to be in this scene for money.
But my intention is not to force my opinion of what I think about how people should relate to the scene on to others.
I just want to try to get people to stop blaming eachother and call eachother thifes, go on about electricution, sueing and hacking sites etc.
It really does not change anything except create bad vibes.

I try to set a good example myself for a nice non-commercial way to deal with the music distibution. But unfortunally not everyone in this industry will be able to work by the same "boom shankar" attitude.
So instead of trying to convince them about what attitude they should have I try to think of ways they maybe could try to resolve the problems that they keep complaining about that they have.

You can spit on the research done about the industry all you like because you think it is only relevant to the mainstream.
Then make your own research about the trance scene in particular.
Only using loosely based presumtions about the reality of a business is not really a good way to try to think about how to carry a business into the future.
I think many label owners reason just like you that providing downloads is only a "loss-leader" and running a server will cost "$15 000".
That sure is not based on any facts that I come across. Again I would appreciate references to what you base those presumtions on.

Sure you cannot know exactly how well it will work out for this scene until it's tried properly.
But it doesn't hurt to look at the how the mainstream
is doing to get an idea for how things look for this scene.
If you did bother to look in to what discussions is going on among analysts you would see that the changes that is happening does not at all favor "economy of scale".
It seems rather to be a concensus that internet, wheather we are talking about CD's or downloads, will be mostly of advantage to smaller labels.

The research done often discuss the whole of the music industry so if you are actually interested in how the future will look or want to help to find solutions to the problems I think it's silly to just disregard the information about the subject that is out there.
And to say that the mainstream and trance industry bears no resemblance to eachother is simply not true.

The changes happening in distibution of music is the same for a trance label and mainstream labels.
There can be online shops signing labels directly for both.
There can be labels bypassing the distibutor selling directly to shops.
There can be labels selling directly to the customers.
There will be an increase in download sales.
Sometimes "economy of scale" will have an effect on what direction this industry will take compared to the majors, bit thats just one factor to be calculated on and don't change the whole scenario.           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  48
Posts :  858
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 15:21
Hey man WOW! I made this thread and after a week is like 16 pages! Unbelievable WOW! Anyway many people have critised that we download and listen to 50 - 100 mp3's a week that does not make me a pro downloader or a pro anything all i know is that before i used to download and when the album is of great work that gives me energy then i buy the original! Well yeah why not it's an honour to buy such a good product! Nowadays but i download and listen sometimes it's even the first seconds of the track and i already know its the usual shit! Yes the fact remains that we are going crazy without good music and i am saying this because i am hurt that this scene is now like the house scene EGO DRIVEN! The EGO sounds in the music also! I am jus honest or naive that's all!

Bom
Ganja           Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!

Please Check our music at:
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contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  296
Posts :  6194
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 16:44
OTT said everything and i mean EVERYTHING in just half a page.

Massive respect to the person and producer.           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 20:17
Yeah, that was dope.

HandA
Inactive User

Started Topics :  9
Posts :  890
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 20:41
Quote:

On 2005-02-19 15:21, ganjagil wrote:
Hey man WOW! I made this thread and after a week is like 16 pages! Unbelievable WOW! Anyway many people have critised that we download and listen to 50 - 100 mp3's a week that does not make me a pro downloader or a pro anything all i know is that before i used to download and when the album is of great work that gives me energy then i buy the original! Well yeah why not it's an honour to buy such a good product! Nowadays but i download and listen sometimes it's even the first seconds of the track and i already know its the usual shit! Yes the fact remains that we are going crazy without good music and i am saying this because i am hurt that this scene is now like the house scene EGO DRIVEN! The EGO sounds in the music also! I am jus honest or naive that's all!

Bom
Ganja



I doubt there's any more egotism in the House scene than in the Trance scene.. your talking B*** mate.

Word Ott. I've said the same a long time ... Hopfully your also saying will open up people's eyes but i doubt it...

Spindrift wont... That I am sure of
EYB
Noized

Started Topics :  111
Posts :  2849
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 20:50
Ott u wrote there too much without sense, can u put it in 2-3 clear sentences that fools like me understand it, please?            Signature
Pavel
Troll

Started Topics :  312
Posts :  8646
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 20:53
Just noticed that if you read EYB backwards you get BYE           Everyone in the world is doing something without me
EYB
Noized

Started Topics :  111
Posts :  2849
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 20:59
Quote:

On 2005-02-19 20:53, Pavel wrote:
Just noticed that if you read EYB backwards you get BYE




Yes right Pavel. Do u want to say me something with that?

BTW Pavel backwards is Levap            Signature
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 22:06
Quote:

Word Ott. I've said the same a long time ... Hopfully your also saying will open up people's eyes but i doubt it...

Spindrift wont... That I am sure of


Open up my eyes a bit about ott's view on the state and background of the scene it did maybe.
But any kind of point or conclusion at least I can not find after reading thru it a few times.
Anyone care to explain to someone who cannot comprehend what the post should "open up my eyes" about.

Shortly what I thought vaguely resembeled points from the post was:

"The selfish [well - maybe just lazy?] people" don't like to pay for nither buying music or going to parties and will not pay if they can avoid it.

Then there is a part about explaining the label managers idealistic nature

Then it was the part with "Spindrift is a traditional Capitalist"

Lastly we have the part about how that it is ok to download britney, but don't download from the labels in the scene


So, people is bad, labels is good, I am a capitalist and finally massive legendary bands is rich and don't need more money.


Sorry for trying to condense it to a few words.
I'm sure all the people who thought the post had such a strong message will not agree with my way of understanding it.

But please if anyone can try to put in words what the post was trying to explain?           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Pavel
Troll

Started Topics :  312
Posts :  8646
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 22:07
Nope, just a thought           Everyone in the world is doing something without me
Tashira


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  4
Posted : Feb 19, 2005 23:35
Big Big Big respect to you Ott ! This last post of yours made the soft hairs on my arms become punkies and tears in my eyes comming up.. I can only agree and thanx you for existing as a person and artist.. Blumenkraft has changed my life and the Live in Transit made me fly into a new dimension ! Thanx to you and all the artists out there who continue, even getting so much contra and disrespect..

Have a beautiful night ...
Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 20, 2005 02:09
Here it shows again, how different people are.
Where some are praising Ott's post, it almost makes me puke.

I read it three times now and what he is saying is basically:
-That most people in the trance scene have no conscience and want everything for free.
-That the artists are the lucky ones, because they are doing what they like and that they are usually "misfits" that couldn't do any other job.
-That the label people are idealists with pure spirit and that without them there would be no scene.

Put on some sentimental dressing and you get girls that get tears in their eyes.

Sorry, I gotta go to the toilet now.......


          "*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..·´¨` .¸¸.·´¨`»
Trance Forum » » Forum  Trance - 50 - 100 Tracks a week! :(
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