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50 - 100 Tracks a week! :(

Ott^
OTT

Started Topics : 0
Posts : 488
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 00:00

EYB - just keep taking and taking.

One day you will see the other side.

I hope.

The Journey Man Project
Inactive User

Started Topics : 128
Posts : 931
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 00:23

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 00:00, Ott^ wrote:
EYB - just keep taking and taking.

One day you will see the other side.

I hope.

Well said. We are not going to change the downloaders minds, but one day hopefully they will chage themselves for the better.

traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics : 234
Posts : 3803
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 00:24

<--used to be on the dark side

"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 00:45

Sorry KakoOlalaJwal
I don't see any point in what you are saying either.

I know a few photagraphers that get paid well.
They sure don't take the pictures they would like all the time, and I get to hear how they think it's utterly boring to take pictures for some cookbook or whatever.

I know a few painters as well, but none that really make money from it.
Same goes for sculptors.
And I can list quite a few well known classic painters that hardly saw a penny from thier work in their lifes.
Sure there is some artists the is painting what they like to paint and make a living out of that.
But on each there is many 100's who cannot make money from it.

And I worked with many designers as well, and most of them seem to have to adjust to the market and don't sit and make the pictures they like all day.
They whinch about the boring corporate stuff they have to do.

I would like to do funny little games and music contolled simulated physics with my programming.
Instead I work on e-commerce and CMS systems.
Not the most fun I could imagine, but thats life, and I still enjoy it and think it's fun.

I know many musicians. Most don't make money from it at all hardly.
Some make quite a bit, but they work with advertising or pop.

Some make just about enough on trance music, and I seen a few people working 12hr in the studio for a few years and just being able to pay the rent from it.
I won't mention any names, but not completly unknown people.
And they are out of the scene now, because they got so fed up with making trance and having to make enough tracks per month to be able to feed themself.

(``З.И(``З.И(``З.ИИ.З`Д)И.З`Д)И.З`Д)
Ћ .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... Л
(И.З`Д(И.З`Д(И.З`Д``З.И)``З.И)``З.И)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth

Ott^
OTT

Started Topics : 0
Posts : 488
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 00:49

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 00:45, Spindrift wrote:
And they are out of the scene now, because they got so fed up with making trance and having to make enough tracks per month to be able to feed themself.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 01:27

Hmm, maybe I should make a couple of things clear about that statement since you seem interested in it OTT.

That was a couple of producers who did a lot of stuff in the mid 90's who went over to house around 97, before the mp3 "problem" was spelling the doom for the scene.
They where basically active during the height of the scene.
House was not what the liked to do acoording to what they said to me, but the pleasure of making trance was gone since they overdid it, and at least they didn't have to sit in the studio all the time and could afford to go out every now and then.

Most the producers I know from the underground movement since that time who hardly made any money from their efforts is still happily at it.

KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics : 116
Posts : 2565
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 15:27

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 00:45, Spindrift wrote:
Sorry KakoOlalaJwal
I don't see any point in what you are saying either.

I think you misunderstood me.. or maybe that my point wasn't that obvious.. The occupations I have selected are ALL basically a passion for these guys... You don't start a photography, sculpture or design simply because you have to put some food on the plates but because initially you have chosen it out of a passion... I think none of those guys you are describing, complaining about a boreness (noone can help them for this, the designers should find another studio then, or work freelance, the painters should think twice about how talented they are, and so on) would accept to go working 5*8 in a factory, if you ask me..

That was the basis of my statement.. Occupations they have chosen for the love of it, such as Musicians !

Do you still not follow me ?

.
.
"Get your dose of BoOgie !"

http://www.bunkum-records.com
http://www.myspace.com/zekakoo

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 15:58

Ok, I see the contents, and maybe I'm dumb but I still don't see the connection to the discussion.
Never mind.

My point when i replied was that in most occupations you have to adopt to the market.

If you are extremly talanted and lucky you will be able to do just what you enjoy all day.
And even if you are lucky and talanted, most people will fall for offers of making loads of more money by doing some cooperate stuff.

So, just as in any other line of work it don't help complaining over to less or low paid jobs.
If you have the skills, find some area to use them to make money.
If you just want to keep working with what you think is fun you'll have a very hard time in any occupation.
No matter what company you work for or if you freelance.

Thats how I see it anyway, it's a crass and commercial world wheather you are an artist or factory worker.
But in a way I rather make my money from big corporations and try to get the most out of them with a clear conscience.
Instead of having to make money from poor freaks which I really would prefer if I could just give to.

HandA
Inactive User

Started Topics : 9
Posts : 890
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 16:17

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 15:58, Spindrift wrote:
My point when i replied was that in most occupations you have to adopt to the market.

Exactly... So if a shop experience shoplifting what do they do? Adapt to the customers demand for free "gifts" or hire a Detective and make sure those Shoplifters end up in The Police Station? I am sure you know the answer mate...

Your reasonings are so boring, egoistic and old Spindrift.. I suggest you keep doing what you do (whatever that is?) and let us the other artists, who think we deserve to be paid at least a little for our music, do our thing as we think is right. Can we agree on that or do you also think you have the right to tell us how to run our things?

sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics : 22
Posts : 629
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 16:38

but handa.. again... Its hard to compare with shoplifting, there are major differences.. One easily notable one: the artists are not losing any physical properties, are they? As far as I know, their own originals and equipments stay with them when people download

anyway... I still ask: Do you think thereДs any, 0,000001% chance that ALL people will stop downloading/sharing? Not at all, not a chance in the world..
So since that is established, what do you think is more reasonable: Think of solutions to diminish the losses labels and artists say they are getting, or complaining about it in an internet forum?
to me the answer is pretty obvious

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 16:49

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 16:17, HandA wrote:

Your reasonings are so boring, egoistic and old Spindrift.. I suggest you keep doing what you do (whatever that is?) and let us the other artists, who think we deserve to be paid at least a little for our music, do our thing as we think is right. Can we agree on that or do you also think you have the right to tell us how to run our things?

I think I can give my view of how I would like to see things turn out and think about possible solutions.

And you have the right to keep complaining that you deserve to be paid just a little.
But I don't think you have the right to call me "egoistic" because I say what I think.

You don't seem to be able to make any kind of relevant arguements about the subject and still like to use the same dumb comparasion between intellectual property and physical goods.
So I can understand that you resort to that level of discussion since you obviously don't have anything of value to add to the discussion or the capablity to think constructive about the subject.

KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics : 116
Posts : 2565
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 16:56

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 16:49, Spindrift wrote:
dumb comparasion between intellectual property and physical goods.

About the common licenses, do you have an opinion ?

.
.
"Get your dose of BoOgie !"

http://www.bunkum-records.com
http://www.myspace.com/zekakoo

darkiller
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics : 15
Posts : 324
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 17:15

Azax syndrom - new album and many more
shift- soon reliced - very good not mainstim commercial artists
I don't understand these threads...

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics : 33
Posts : 1560
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 17:21

Quote:

On 2005-02-18 16:56, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
About the common licenses, do you have an opinion ?

Plenty of opinions

But although it's intellectually interesting it's of not so much practical meaning IMO.
The regular licenses is too out of tune with relity already that people do not respect them at all.

But for the sake of honesty the terms should be shaped differently.
That would bring up a lot of practical issues with royalty organisations which is not a problem right now for smaller labels.
That might change if the way the organisations change as well in the future though.

But I don't like the hipocracy involved in both distribution of performance royalties and the actual licenses.
So on moral grounds I cannot accept the way all trance labels, except a couple AFAIK, license their material.

The way the distribution is handeled is practically a far more burning issue for labels right now I think.

mafkaroo

Started Topics : 2
Posts : 47
Posted : Feb 18, 2005 18:19

Quote:

But in a way I rather make my money from big corporations and try to get the most out of them with a clear conscience.
Instead of having to make money from poor freaks which I really would prefer if I could just give to.

You're in a very unique position. Its also understandable why you are a lot happier to give your music away.
On another point, I think a good way for the fans to help, is to stop downloading so many signed artists music illegally, get over to the music making thread on here, download some mp3s legally, and give the up and coming some feedback (if they're crap, tell them what they can do to make them sound better!)

Trance Forum Л Л Forum Trance - 50 - 100 Tracks a week! :(

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