| Author
|
the concept of HELL in psytrance
|
vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1189
Posted : Apr 6, 2007 10:13
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-03-27 16:52, makus wrote:
hi there!
last time i see trance cd covers, band's, label's names and track titles and there appear such words as 'evil' 'death', 'hell', so on. those covers with blood, skeletons, fucking skulls, human parts, gibs and bones, vivid pictures of crosses and doomed caves... why is that? what is it about? how all this shit connects to psychedelic trance? and what should be next? VA - PERVERTANS with anal fisting on a cover? is it psychedelic? okay, maybe for someone fractal art is getting to be boring, but hey, why HELL? why demons, satan?
thats weird to me.
|
|
i think the aliens are telling you to ditch the "trance" and start listening to psychedelic downtempo....we're still all about trippin |
|
|
insane
Silent Horror
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
1983
Posted : Apr 11, 2007 07:00
|
just so some can know ... few black metal bands are psychedelic yes... very atmospheric ..they also have trax named as "opium" which doesnt prove they do not belong to their scene.... i cant associate DEATH Metal with psytrance...its way faster than this music - but Black metal yes... melodic - & dark.... thats psychedelic.. 
better melodies than some of our Artists .
associating cannibal pictures on cds.. - its just a cover bro... damn.. its the way some people "Trip"
they are way over flower power...not many people are gifted with this..ofcourse it seems rite opposite of wat this scene is supposed to be - hugs/kisses/smiling faces all the time.... but wHY ignore the darker side of it... many have been thru it..
its just - freedom of expression -
 ------------------------------
NEMESIS - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2007
PATTERNS EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2009
SEANCE - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2011
PATTERNS II EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2013 |
|
|
|
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Apr 11, 2007 07:33
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-11 07:00, insane wrote:
just so some can know ... few black metal bands are psychedelic yes... very atmospheric ..they also have trax named as "opium" which doesnt prove they do not belong to their scene.... i cant associate DEATH Metal with psytrance...its way faster than this music - but Black metal yes... melodic - & dark.... thats psychedelic..
better melodies than some of our Artists .
associating cannibal pictures on cds.. - its just a cover bro... damn.. its the way some people "Trip"
they are way over flower power...not many people are gifted with this..ofcourse it seems rite opposite of wat this scene is supposed to be - hugs/kisses/smiling faces all the time.... but wHY ignore the darker side of it... many have been thru it..
its just - freedom of expression -
|
|
my thoughts exactly!!
Anyone who thinks that trance has to either stay the same way it did back 5-8 years ago or sound melodic and full of light in order for it to be "psychedelic" is just having a tough time coping with change.
We evolve. It is inevitable that things will change. You can either embrace it or gripe about it.
When some people trip, they see flowers and colors and some other people see darkness and death.
That's just how it is. We all see different images and feel strange and wacky sensations. It is our own deep and personal trip that we alone live through and For someone to believe that they are the judge of deciding what is "psychedelic" i dont know whether or not to find it asinine or just laughable.
anyway.....to each his own
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
|
|
|
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1123
Posted : Apr 11, 2007 11:55
|
I am dissapointed some people are so ignorant as far as symbolism in the psychedelic experience is concerned.
If some people dont understand what meaning "death", hell, skulls have in a psychedelic context they should not rabble on about things they do not know about, but try to do some research or try to understand through experience if you feel the need to instead of jumping on the "bash darkpsy" train. Go cuddle some bunnies and take some more MDMA or something.
|
|
|
|
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1123
Posted : Apr 11, 2007 13:18
|
I apologize if my last post was arrogant or agressive. What these things have to do with psy? I will try to explain briefly, and much of it is imo. Many of you consider this stuff nonsense, and many know already as it is fairly obvious. Pls expand, flame, ignore, contribute ideas....whatever
1) The skull is associated with death (duh) but not as in physical death. It relates to a spiritual death, which people may go through while having a psychedlic experience.
This spiritual death involves the total surrender of the self, the ego, to the great unknown. Thus "one dies" and is reborn spiritually after merging with the source, god, the univeral mind or whatever names people want to give it.
The Tibetan Book of the dead, The Grateful Dead, born again Christians, Jesus on the cross.....you get the idea.
2)Hell can be symbolic of the agony and trials within the chaos of a psychedelic experience. Just as one must survive the cold and confusion of the night to be saved by the sun and daylight, trippers have to swim through the night of the soul (passing through hell so to speak). During this the tripper may have the feeling of being:
3)Mutilated, torn apart, smashed, even cannabilised^^......which is a neccesary evil, an initiation one goes through. Having survived this mental ordeal one comes out stronger and changed. A notion associated with this is: The flesh can be smashed, ripped and destroyed but the soul is immortal.
4)Demons, monsters etc. represent gatekeepers within the spiritual realms. Those who confront these mental entities without fear or flinching may pass, as good and evil, ugliness and beauty are merely illusions. The conquering of these demons is also represented in the medieval imagery of the "dragon slayer".
A similar meaning may be attributed to the Hindu deity Kali, whose frightening looks scare away and torment those unworthy and not spiritually advanced, pure or strong enough to receive her blessings.
In the end all there is to say is.......not all things are what they seem and the most beautiful things may be hidden within a core of horror and ugliness ;P
|
|
|
|
beardedwildthing
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
131
Posted : Apr 13, 2007 21:10
|
i agree with the poster..i think the demonic side is a bit odd and i have to think that if albert hoffman knew his influence had resulted into this,he would say a few hail mary's.
mind u,i dont think many people like to trip out on lsd to death trance...maybe take a few drops of fresh virgins blood instead..
anyway,each to their own. |
|
|
|
caiopro
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
42
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 00:15
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-06 01:24, Liquid-Vision wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-05 23:16, caiopro wrote:
http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/csr/csr1cd002.html
does this look like a trance cd cover?
i like lots of these projects that are heavy-metal oriented and influenced, but covers like this one are just ugly and as much as not psychedelic it could be.
|
|
STFU and GBTW.
They're should be only one "bitching" topic where idiots like you can go to whine to the "world"(notice quotes, because no one really gives a shit what gets posted here) about how the latest death/dark/gloomy/big bad devil freak artist ruined your day.
PS: ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE ARE "psychedelic", but obviously your too closed-minded to understand that, as far as your concerned Psychedelic = Pretty pictures and flowers. Psychedelia can be an agonizing journey through hell as well.
|
|
I dont think you get what i mean. I mean, WTF, is butchering and killing considered psychedelic now??? :S
I have nothign against dark trance or even some metal oriented covers, i mean just that some stuff has nothign to do with the music or the scene and i dont like this kind of cover. Its a matter of opinion.
Lsdance Crew @ Belem do Pará, Brazil. |
|
|
|
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 01:14
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-14 00:15, caiopro wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-06 01:24, Liquid-Vision wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-05 23:16, caiopro wrote:
http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/csr/csr1cd002.html
does this look like a trance cd cover?
i like lots of these projects that are heavy-metal oriented and influenced, but covers like this one are just ugly and as much as not psychedelic it could be.
|
|
STFU and GBTW.
They're should be only one "bitching" topic where idiots like you can go to whine to the "world"(notice quotes, because no one really gives a shit what gets posted here) about how the latest death/dark/gloomy/big bad devil freak artist ruined your day.
PS: ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE ARE "psychedelic", but obviously your too closed-minded to understand that, as far as your concerned Psychedelic = Pretty pictures and flowers. Psychedelia can be an agonizing journey through hell as well.
|
|
I dont think you get what i mean. I mean, WTF, is butchering and killing considered psychedelic now??? :S
I have nothign against dark trance or even some metal oriented covers, i mean just that some stuff has nothign to do with the music or the scene and i dont like this kind of cover. Its a matter of opinion.
|
|
did you not just read Kazuku's last post? which btw 10 points for you kazuku for you last post. I thought it was an excellent description and explanation of your interpretation of death, hell and demons and the association it has with psychedelia and spirituality.
Obviously there will be many sneers amongst the cynics and so called "realists" of your interpretation of death to psychedelia and spirituality.
Everyone who goes on their own "trip" will all see and feel something distinct then the person next to us and we will sometimes see and judge things differently as well.
Before one rushes to judgement on another it might not be a bad idea to try to understand them first before you chastise them.
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 15:45
|
im so fucking tired of methamphetamine in the scene.
it influences everything... but luckily it only shows up every few years and goes away as soon as most of the people realize it digests you from inside and basically kills you...
i think the death-hell-dark concepts you mention are coming from half-baked analysis of intensity:
people coming out of their trip half-finished processing their formative anger at society or their parents etc...
and taking it into their art... in the past it was simply that the 20 artists making psy trance and the 10 labels were all over this stuff and somehow the maturity filter kicked in.
today its simply that everyone is an artist and any collection of tracks with a cover equals a compilation and hence a label is born...
its a fine line between encouraging new art and being flooded with primitive concepts...
many people react to intense music by associating it with hatred, evil, darkness etc...
this is a mental association and not a part of night time trancing...
i mean Goa Gil is known for playing the most intense music but seeing it as all about sound and not putting any of this Evil energy into it...
i think this Evil thing is about teenage angst.
(which can occur even into the 20's and 30's)
i think that its ok to condemn the 'evil hate hell' concepts while being open to intense sound waves and artistic expression
if you have no filter at all then what?
if its only words to discuss butchering and hell and hate and cannibalism, then its only words to say 'no i dont like that' and thats our RIGHT.
why should we accept concepts that challenge the basic social contract like cannibalism?
an artistic mind can feel free to make currency challenging our trust and love, but this is primitive art in my opinion and only being controversial for the sake of making trouble or a big name...
none of this stuff is LAW its just my taste and judgement which i will apply where i see fit and i tell you that right now i see a lot of stuff i dont like associated with music that i do like...
i wish this dark energy of hell hate evil etc goes back to the place it comes from ' the shithole of hell.
and out of my face.
meanwhile i am careful where i use psychedelics and how- these substances are about opening up and about healing and love not about closing up and the baser emotions of fear and anger and hate etc...
sure- one passes through bardos of many kinds-
but its a mistake to associate with the bardo and identify with it- keep moving towards the light.
read your tibetan book of the dead
|
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 15:53
|
i think you make fancy academic explanations for much simpler phenomenon.
after many personal conversations with people who run dark labels trying to inquire into their choices in artistic concepts i have to say most dont have any such rationale for their art- but rather think its °cool° to be badass and that dark is the °cool° thing because its nice and cynical and not vulnerable and open.
promotion fixation on the bardos or trials of self created hell is mundane and not psychedelic.
everything you put forward you amplify
choose what you amplify in this world and beyond.
do you want to amplify darkness, despair, hell, etc?
why?
is there not enough in this world?
sorry- i dont associate nice intense music with evil. evil is if i kill your mother and feed her to you on a plate.
genocide is evil. do you really seek to glorify these things?
stop fucking around and understand the ramifications of what you amplify in this world and beyond.
finito
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-11 13:18, kazuku wrote:
I apologize if my last post was arrogant or agressive. What these things have to do with psy? I will try to explain briefly, and much of it is imo. Many of you consider this stuff nonsense, and many know already as it is fairly obvious. Pls expand, flame, ignore, contribute ideas....whatever
1) The skull is associated with death (duh) but not as in physical death. It relates to a spiritual death, which people may go through while having a psychedlic experience.
This spiritual death involves the total surrender of the self, the ego, to the great unknown. Thus "one dies" and is reborn spiritually after merging with the source, god, the univeral mind or whatever names people want to give it.
The Tibetan Book of the dead, The Grateful Dead, born again Christians, Jesus on the cross.....you get the idea.
2)Hell can be symbolic of the agony and trials within the chaos of a psychedelic experience. Just as one must survive the cold and confusion of the night to be saved by the sun and daylight, trippers have to swim through the night of the soul (passing through hell so to speak). During this the tripper may have the feeling of being:
3)Mutilated, torn apart, smashed, even cannabilised^^......which is a neccesary evil, an initiation one goes through. Having survived this mental ordeal one comes out stronger and changed. A notion associated with this is: The flesh can be smashed, ripped and destroyed but the soul is immortal.
4)Demons, monsters etc. represent gatekeepers within the spiritual realms. Those who confront these mental entities without fear or flinching may pass, as good and evil, ugliness and beauty are merely illusions. The conquering of these demons is also represented in the medieval imagery of the "dragon slayer".
A similar meaning may be attributed to the Hindu deity Kali, whose frightening looks scare away and torment those unworthy and not spiritually advanced, pure or strong enough to receive her blessings.
In the end all there is to say is.......not all things are what they seem and the most beautiful things may be hidden within a core of horror and ugliness ;P
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
483
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 16:03
|
.... Who are we to Judge ?
.... I say live and let Live
.... For sure it has both Me feedom !
.... Have a nice weekend
|
|
|
|
Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 16:41
|
|
ouch things are getting heavy :-o |
|
|
|
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
483
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 16:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-14 16:03, Kemic-Al wrote:
.... Who are we to Judge ?
.... I say live and let Live
.... For sure it has both Me feedom !
.... Have a nice weekend
|
|
I rephrase that sorry
.... Who are we to Judge ?
.... I say live and let Live
.... For sure it has bought Me freedom !
.... Have a nice weekend
|
|
|
|
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 16:57
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-14 15:53, ocelot wrote:
i think you make fancy academic explanations for much simpler phenomenon.
after many personal conversations with people who run dark labels trying to inquire into their choices in artistic concepts i have to say most dont have any such rationale for their art- but rather think its °cool° to be badass and that dark is the °cool° thing because its nice and cynical and not vulnerable and open.
promotion fixation on the bardos or trials of self created hell is mundane and not psychedelic.
everything you put forward you amplify
choose what you amplify in this world and beyond.
do you want to amplify darkness, despair, hell, etc?
why?
is there not enough in this world?
sorry- i dont associate nice intense music with evil. evil is if i kill your mother and feed her to you on a plate.
genocide is evil. do you really seek to glorify these things?
stop fucking around and understand the ramifications of what you amplify in this world and beyond.
finito
Quote:
|
On 2007-04-11 13:18, kazuku wrote:
I apologize if my last post was arrogant or agressive. What these things have to do with psy? I will try to explain briefly, and much of it is imo. Many of you consider this stuff nonsense, and many know already as it is fairly obvious. Pls expand, flame, ignore, contribute ideas....whatever
1) The skull is associated with death (duh) but not as in physical death. It relates to a spiritual death, which people may go through while having a psychedlic experience.
This spiritual death involves the total surrender of the self, the ego, to the great unknown. Thus "one dies" and is reborn spiritually after merging with the source, god, the univeral mind or whatever names people want to give it.
The Tibetan Book of the dead, The Grateful Dead, born again Christians, Jesus on the cross.....you get the idea.
2)Hell can be symbolic of the agony and trials within the chaos of a psychedelic experience. Just as one must survive the cold and confusion of the night to be saved by the sun and daylight, trippers have to swim through the night of the soul (passing through hell so to speak). During this the tripper may have the feeling of being:
3)Mutilated, torn apart, smashed, even cannabilised^^......which is a neccesary evil, an initiation one goes through. Having survived this mental ordeal one comes out stronger and changed. A notion associated with this is: The flesh can be smashed, ripped and destroyed but the soul is immortal.
4)Demons, monsters etc. represent gatekeepers within the spiritual realms. Those who confront these mental entities without fear or flinching may pass, as good and evil, ugliness and beauty are merely illusions. The conquering of these demons is also represented in the medieval imagery of the "dragon slayer".
A similar meaning may be attributed to the Hindu deity Kali, whose frightening looks scare away and torment those unworthy and not spiritually advanced, pure or strong enough to receive her blessings.
In the end all there is to say is.......not all things are what they seem and the most beautiful things may be hidden within a core of horror and ugliness ;P
|
|
|
|
once again. Someone judging what is psychedelic or not.... btw could you please let us know of which artists and labels you have had these "personal conversations" in which they think it is "cool" to have these "bad ass" artistic concepts, so we could all know who really is inspired by artistic creativity or inspired by just wanting to appear to be "cool, dark and disturbed". This would be helpful.
Oh, and i am glad that you believe it is ok to "condemn" one's artistic expression. Why don't we just take it a step a further. Anything related to death, demise and destruction we should just eradicate that as well and then the next following year we will take it another step and abolish darkness, gloom and afterlife.
If we start to attempt to adjudicate what is "correct" or not we will retrace rather than progress...
I myself do not enjoy much of this class of music and i personally don't like many of the covers as well. But i know enough that i will not attempt to bash and degrade one's artistic expression and creativity. We all have the freedom to listen and see what we would like to see. If you don't like it, thats fine.
The beauty of it is......
you can decide not to listen or watch it. Now isn't that wonderful?
That we can decide.
and relax a little....no need to get an ulcer over it. or is there?
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
|
|
|
ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 14, 2007 17:23
|
at Magox- no i wont clarify who i spoke. feel free to think im lying or otherwise distorting the truth.
maybe your heart will speak to you.
who are we to judge?
we are free to judge concepts in life.
if an artist or label is free to make a concept-
i am free to like or not like it.
amplify what you wish to amplify
why should i accept what i consider to be a problematic trend in trance? its not like my condemnation will result in this trends demise.
why defend evil-sick-shit like its some wounded fragile baby? why tolerate intolerance?
why sit nicely with something that seeks your destruction? not for me thanks
but enough energy amplifying my dislike for that which i dont wish to amplify.
better i speak on a thread about what i like.
i am only human
ive seen the edge of real evil and darkness
ive seen one human murder another and it was not pretty. why the hell would i think this was a good concept to promote in music for acid for fucks sake? can you say bad trip?
what the fuck is up people! seriously
you have total freedom of expression.
no one can stop you. ever.
why abuse that?
its not like i am preventing it
allow me the freedom of expression to call it SHITE and say i dislike it.
evil sucks ass
|
|
|
|
|
