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MP3 or NOT?
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ensonar
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
2
Posted : May 11, 2005 12:21
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What are the reasons for judging people who don't live in such financialy developed country's as you are for buying or burning mp3's?
Financial standards are very diferent in country's of eastern europe so let see the reasons for and counter..
I know that this is eternal question on the scene but let's dill with it on this post!
please be MATURE with your reply's..
Thanxx..
..Ohm.. |
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Riton
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
532
Posted : May 11, 2005 12:37
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look i have many friends in "srbija" and some who are in israel but originally from there. Wherever you live, there are rich and poor. And I bet you that nobody here would give up owning all the cds they like. But I know for a fact i can't, i don't have the cash. I support the artists by going to parties, and by buying the occasional release that just stands out. I can't afford to buy everything i like. I try my best to create jobs for artists by spreading parties (not in the bad way of course) and helping out as much as i can.
Everyone gives what they can, that's the lesson i think.
 "I went to Goa and all i got was this lousy superiority complex." |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : May 11, 2005 13:07
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It was a little while since we had a intense discussion about this...so let's go again 
I think it's great that the scene has spread so much and turned global.
In the mid 90's the scene in Russia, India, brazil etc. was pretty much non-existant.
Now there is a scene there, artists get paid gigs and more fans.
It makes me sad to see people complaining about that they don't buy enough CD's instead of appreciating that they get more fans and indeed more money.
When I got into this scene there was no-one making money and selling CD's. The music was made to be copied and spread.
Greed have taken control over the scene nowadays and people bicker over what in reality is small change.
New artists think it's some god-given right to make a living out of their music even if the are making narrow underground music.
And they adjust the style their making to fit the labels, who in their turn adjust what music they release to suit the 3-4 people who is making the decisions with the distributors.
So let the labels complain. If they want a share of the market in poorer countries they need to license production to those countries so they can make cheap pressings to get a chance to sell a few copies. Otherwise it wont happen, no matter if the internet died tomorrow.
And maybe even that would not work, but who cares.
It would be a better scene if the people releasing and making music for the purpose of earning money would disappear.
Underground music like psychedelic trance should be made out of love, not out of greed.
If you are greedy, start a boyband or work with advertising.
I earned more money from one days work making a TV jingle than from producing trance for more than 10 years.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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RaSSahMunKaBuh
Inactive User
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
80
Posted : May 11, 2005 13:48
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the mainproblem today is that they release too much records ,when i started listen to this music there was only spirit zone,flying rhino,dragonfly,transient and psy harmonics now today we got like over 500 labels and half of that 500 is full on labels so even if you would live in the richest country of the tellus there is no way you have enuff money to bye them all..... |
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floatyhippyflower
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
538
Posted : May 11, 2005 14:33
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There's another thread like this somewhere I'm sure. Can't find it though, so here's my two pennies worth.
I used to buy all my CD's. Then I got burgled just after I moved into a new property (no insurance sorted yet...damn....) and most of my collection was either badly damaged or stolen. I've been online at home for five years now and initially I d/l everything I could get my hands on, primarily because I couldn't afford to 'rebuy' my old CD's. As both mum and student, the finances were ridiculously tight. And I live in England, you know...one of those 'financially developed' countries....
While on my course I researched into the mp3 phenomena after the whole 'down with Napster' thing as part of a project and was amazed to find that at least with respect to the big 5 labels, even the hugely successful artists received only a tiny amount of the royalties from sales, something like 8%. The rest was distribution, management, retailers blah blah. At the time I felt this was justification for the downloading I was doing, esp. since many of the albums I managed to get hold of I'd already bought previously...you know 'oh well, they're not going to miss my £1...' type of attitude. However, the vast majority of the music I listen to nowadays has nothing to do with the big 5. Psy chill/ambient is my favourite genre and as we all know, most of our artists are 'small' by comparison, released (if they're lucky) by smaller independent labels that run on tight budgets.
And here's the personal battle I have....
Without mp3's and d/l, I'd never have discovered the likes of Shpongle, Protoculture, Entheogenic, Hallucinogen and OTT. And they remain my favourites after all these years. I mean, I've now purchased most of their main albums but to be honest I can't afford all the releases I would like to hear as I'm now home full time since graduating, looking after the offspring and working on my own music when they are at school. I'm not making any money yet. But having spent a little bit of time on various forums over the last couple of years, I've realised that the vast majority of artists in the psy scene are people like me - you know, making music in their own homes, struggling to pay for equipment they might need...I'm just starting out really but even the more successful artists don't really earn very much from what I can gather.
I now d/l with a view to buying the albums I like best so I can support my favourite artists whenever I can. I mean, this is their work at the end of the day. I don't think it's greedy to want to be paid for your work. How many other businesses expect their employees to work for free??? I know it's not really the same thing, but still...if you were passionate about engineering, that doesn't mean you'd go build cars for nothing just for the hell of it. Or maybe you would as a hobby, but you've still got to support yourself financially in some way. These guys have given up the security of a regular job to make music for all of us and I've long since realised that it's probably the smaller artists who must suffer the most from d/l's (ironically, many of whom are just happy that their music is being given the opportunity of a wider audience and worry less about d/l than those signed to the big 5). If I was ever lucky enough to be released some day and everyone who liked my work d/l it instead of buying it, well it's going to hurt financially. This is esp. true for those of us who have decided to dedicate some time to making an album and trying our luck without the security of a stable income. I’ve given myself a couple of years while kids are little but then McJob it is..!
Ultimately however, I'd rather someone have access to my music than not, particularly if they struggle financially. I think it would be a shame if money issues got in the way of somebody being able to enjoy the music they liked - let’s face it the mark up on CD’s is astronomical whatever way you look at it - but that's just my opinion based on my own research and experience. Admittedly though, it’s a fine balance these days. If I could afford all the releases I've enjoyed over years, I'd be straight onto my favourite CD websites and order the lot. I’d much rather have the whole caboodle than a crappy 128kbps mp3 with no sleeve, notes or artwork. But I can't do that just now so I mix and match as best I can. Would be interested to hear what some of the labels and artist members have to say on this issue.
3;~ Light
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
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488
Posted : May 11, 2005 14:55
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Its a discussion thats been had ad nauseum.
I think you'll find that anyone involved in making or selling music will think that never contibuting for what you listen to makes you a bit of a parasite and is a bad idea.
Most people who aren't involved in making or selling music will either;
A. Not give a shit,
B. Say stuff like "I think Kazaa is good promotion for artists..." or
C. Say that they download it to see what its like and then go and buy it.
Some people will try to convince you that "All art should be free..." and that anyone who complains about people taking their life's work for nothing "is a nasty, capitalist, bread-head fascist."
Some will make the point about sound quality of mp3's being shit, and preferring to have a CD with booklet and artwork.
At least one person will say that releasing on vinyl is the best way to stop piracy.
Somebody will point out that its not easy to buy records in Sierra Leone or Albania and that the only connection to the scene available in these countries is via p2p networks.
There will be at least one post in broken English that says;
"AHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!! ALL YOU POOR ARTIST IS NEEDING THE MONEY FOR YOR FERRARI AND COKAINE!!!!!!!!! - IS PITY I FEEL MOST SORRY FOR YOU AAAHHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!! I DOWNLOD ALL YOUR TUNE AND NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO IT AAAAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!"
My own view is that trying to convince people to pay for something that can be had for free is pretty futile, but maybe when a few more labels have gone bust and the quality music starts to dry up, people will start to realise that - in the words of a mate of mine who runs a label - "You can't keep milking the cow if you're not going to feed it."
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1698
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:08
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ive been pondering abt this for a long time now ..... in my opnion buying cds isnt really abt supporting artists cos one cd sold would mean around 1$ for the artist .... an average psytrance release sells around 300-500 copies that would mean a max of 500$ into the artists pocket from the cd sales and even lesser for compilation cds .... with lesser people dling mp3s the sales would go upto around a max 2000 cds keeping the small psytrance market in view ...... which would mean a max 2000$ for the artist ..... iam sure if the artist is really good heshe would make up for this loss by gettin enuf gigs ......
the question out here is do u want to support the labels??.....in my opnion we all must support them as label managers and employees put in a lot of time, money and effort into releasing a cd .... and i cant imagine what the scene would be like without labels ..... its already been seen how the best of labels go bankrupt and shut down .... even they have a right to make some money for the hard work they put in .....
remember without labels we would have a lot of crap psytrance being privately release and it would be impossible for us to find the real gems ..... moreover labels do wonders for an artists image with all the promotion work ......
i guess we all shld change out mantra to "support labels!!!!" .....
please correct me if iam wrong ....
i by no means want to sound disrespectful to all the artists .... i would be glad pay for watching the artists i listen to almost everday perform in front of me ...
@ott
ur the no. one artist on my list man .... any plans for an indian gig ???
New mixes on
http://soundcloud.com/blueorb
Older Mixes on
http://blueorb.podomatic.com/ |
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Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
431
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:12
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Dear OTT,
Once again you pin everybody on the ground!
I just would like to repeat some of your words....
"but maybe when a few more labels have gone bust and the quality music starts to dry up, people will start to realise that"
But from the other side, I also expect the Major labels to change their current business model! We are in the "Digital era"....
Best regards
Tms
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1698
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:13
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Dot Kite
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
431
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:17
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-11 15:13, blueOrb / Esoteric wrote:
@dot kite and spindrift
u think people would pay to dl mp3s when they could get it free of the net....think again.....
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Dear blueOrb / Esoteric,
I do! I do pay to download music (iTunes, e-music....etc..) and do you know what? This is a great service!
This will be the only way that music will be distributed in the near future! PERIOD !
regards
Tms |
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1698
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:21
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@dot kite
dont take this personally man...iam talking in a very general sense....u cant change people.....even if labels start paid d\l distribution people who d\l would still continue cos its availble for free on emule .....
this is something people have to reliase from within.....yes digital distribution would boost sales by a bit but still again "the real problem is with the mentality of the general masses"
New mixes on
http://soundcloud.com/blueorb
Older Mixes on
http://blueorb.podomatic.com/ |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:22
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After OTT's response the thread can be locked.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
Posts :
1698
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:24
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-11 13:07, Spindrift wrote:
It makes me sad to see people complaining about that they don't buy enough CD's instead of appreciating that they get more fans and indeed more money.
So let the labels complain. If they want a share of the market in poorer countries they need to license production to those countries so they can make cheap pressings to get a chance to sell a few copies. Otherwise it wont happen, no matter if the internet died tomorrow.
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very true ..... buying psytrance cds in india thru psyshop or so costs almost double the price of a standard sony - bmg commercial relase
its just not realistic
New mixes on
http://soundcloud.com/blueorb
Older Mixes on
http://blueorb.podomatic.com/ |
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Dj Chris Planet
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
336
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:30
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-11 14:55, Ott^ wrote:
My own view is that trying to convince people to pay for something that can be had for free is pretty futile, but maybe when a few more labels have gone bust and the quality music starts to dry up, people will start to realise that - in the words of a mate of mine who runs a label - "You can't keep milking the cow if you're not going to feed it."
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This is so true
Let us take you on a journey, that will take you from are small world stage and orbit you beyond our fragile planet...... |
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floatyhippyflower
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
538
Posted : May 11, 2005 15:40
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Quote:
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On 2005-05-11 14:55, Ott^ wrote:
Its a discussion thats been had ad nauseum.
I think you'll find that anyone involved in making or selling music will think that never contibuting for what you listen to makes you a bit of a parasite and is a bad idea.
My own view is that trying to convince people to pay for something that can be had for free is pretty futile, but maybe when a few more labels have gone bust and the quality music starts to dry up, people will start to realise that - in the words of a mate of mine who runs a label - "You can't keep milking the cow if you're not going to feed it."
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Aye, I knew there was another thread here. I came across it a while back...apologies if any of my opinions go over old ground, which by the sound of it they do.
I think that what you say is absolutely fair enough. It's gone from being a few people sharing CD's they've bought then ripped and turned into something altogether more greedy. My first reaction was definitely 'yeehah...free music....' but you're right - once I became involved in psy myself and began to consider producing as a possible career move I realised just how hard it is for people like me to get off the ground. And like I said earlier, it really is the small artists and labels that suffer most IMO....funny how selfish we can be sometimes...
But I'd expect that you're exactly the kind of artist I'm talking about actually - signed to a smaller, independant label etc etc...though I would like to point out that despite your understandable scepticism, without d/l I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to hear Shpongle initially or even your own work for that matter, both of which I like very much (and yes I do have them all on 'proper' CD!!!). I'm not able to get to gigs and sample the delights that way...
I do genuinely think there's a case for the internet/d/l sites offering a forum and an opportunity for non-commercial-big-5 artists to be heard around the globe. It has broadened my musical tastes immeasurably and allowed me to sample works before spending money. I mean many of the 'pay per view' sites I've used don't have the kind of music I like to hear...without the finances to buy randomly and hope for the best, what would you/anyone suggest (seriously)? It's a releatively small genre so it's not like we hear this stuff on commercial radio or are able to catch a good psy show on the travesty that is MTV if you know what I mean. The various p2p sites and forums are also the places I would probably start with for feedback on my own music, were I ever to think it good enough to be heard.
I certainly don't want to 'milk the cow' as you put it but I'm not exactly 'silver spoon' girl either...Surely there's a way to find a good balance.
3;~
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