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Freedom of Speech? pffft....
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 16:54
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I have a few questions for the moderators on this site.
why are we not allowed to say what we feel on this forum without worrying that the thread might be locked because "it doesnt make sense?" or heaven forbid, we actually express a personal opinion (*gasp*)
most of the actual trance culture is based on the "senseless" and the "random" and so long as its humourous or interesting, why should it not be allowed?
i think the whole irony of this is that this thread will probably be locked too.
so much for "Freedom of Speech". This kind of senseless moderation is the exact kind of attitude that kills the very essence of what trance culture is about. being able to say what you feel without being judged or shunned by others for your personal opinions. and so long as it is "your personal opinion" it shouldnt actually offend anyone. (anyone open minded that is).
i would just be very interested to hear why this forum is run like a military camp instead of a fun, carefree place, like it should be.
sorry, this is just something i dont understand. perhaps you guys could shed some light on this subject for me?.
OD |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:05
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When you joined the forum you agreed to follow to the guidelines. http://forum.isratrance.com/guideline.html
You like every single one of us are free to leave the place whenever you feel like it. As long as it's ontopic and respecteful and there's no violence, trading or politics you're 100% free to express your views. If that's not enough maybe you should start your own forum? I mean are you paying for this website? No you aren't nor am I. Dude these guys are giving this wonderful site for us for free, only thing is that you have to respect their guidelines. Maybe they have a certain vision how they wantthe site to be. Who are you to critisize that?
 "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:27
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On 2005-03-08 17:05, traveller wrote:
When you joined the forum you agreed to follow to the guidelines. http://forum.isratrance.com/guideline.html
You like every single one of us are free to leave the place whenever you feel like it. As long as it's ontopic and respecteful and there's no violence, trading or politics you're 100% free to express your views. If that's not enough maybe you should start your own forum? I mean are you paying for this website? No you aren't nor am I. Dude these guys are giving this wonderful site for us for free, only thing is that you have to respect their guidelines. Maybe they have a certain vision how they wantthe site to be. Who are you to critisize that?
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no, look i am here for a serious discussion. not to have an unnessesary go at IsraTrance. and i can completly understand the guidelines, which i have read. its just that sometimes it just doesnt make sense to me, that politics are completely banned. politics make up 90% of this world we live in. (whether you like that or not). the price of eggs, why we didnt win the olympics, the wars going on in the world, even why bananas are sold in bunches of 5. this is all politics man if you go into it enough, (and i can, but i wont bore you)
what i want to know is this: Where is the line between what is acceptable political discussions and what is unacceptable political discussions? simply saying "Politics are not allowed" in actual fact voids 90% of all topic conversations. since to a degree, most things in the real world do lead to politics to some degree. either IsraTrance should be more specific with regards to this clause, or go easier on people who deviate from this, since it isn't that clear to be honest.
That is all i feel i needed to make a comment on.
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Shaqattack
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
1381
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:28
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very well said traveller...
and OD one more thing...everything is better when it is under "slight" moderation....
on this site if there isnt any moderation then we would have very fiesty arguments thrown about all over the place which makes it look very unhelpful n shabby...its not like we r restricted to say anything..
if u have something to say do go ahead it solely doesnt mean that anything and everything a lil out of the way of the guidelines is deleted and locked..no it is not that way...
hope u get it..
respect...
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:39
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On 2005-03-08 17:28, Shaqattack wrote:
very well said traveller...
and OD one more thing...everything is better when it is under "slight" moderation....
on this site if there isnt any moderation then we would have very fiesty arguments thrown about all over the place which makes it look very unhelpful n shabby...its not like we r restricted to say anything..
if u have something to say do go ahead it solely doesnt mean that anything and everything a lil out of the way of the guidelines is deleted and locked..no it is not that way...
hope u get it..
respect...
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no, fully mate, i do understand this. there is just some issues that are unclear to me. where the thin line lies between what is said with regards to politics etc. and i do agree that "slight" moderation is good. otherwise you would have chaos here and it wouldnt do IsraTrances image any good. i cant argue with you here. its just that for instance, "someone". is allowed to throw false accusations at me on a public forum with no moderation taking place, but if i even mention the word "iraq" (and this would be a "founded" statement, not an "unfounded" and false one), the thread might even be deleted? its just a really funny logic i guess i have to get used to. |
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ShivaS
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
861
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:45
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OD do you have any special examples on that matter? I would like to review it and answer.
I know people sometimes think we are too strict and so on bla-bla. Try take same guidelines and look from the other side, like "isratrance allows only trance talks" . Don't look at politics, disrespect and other things. Look at the trance and only.
So again, i want to see some examples and answer the question when it's in front of my eyes.
Thanks.
p.s. May be with time You will understand what hides behind like traveller said and truly did;)
You are very very fresh here, take your time, I'd say;)
I may rise, but I won't shine ... |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:48
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by reading your first post i thought you were acting like the prosecuter, the jury and the judge all at once... it seemed like you didnt even desire a response other then the one you expected. after your second reply (which is more tuned) i think i get your drift. anyway i'll surprise you - and mess up your plan to have this thread locked. 
the thing with politics that we are sensitive about is that there really as you say no beginning and no end. you can say this is and that isnt... once we start letting some - why should we discriminate against the other? so it was decided by Shahar and ShivaS when this site was opened many years ago to simply avoid it completely. also, when we do see it, we try not eradicate it, but rather truncate it or stop it right before (as we see it) the point of explosion. things are forums can be misinterpeted very easily, especially when it comes to politics. we rather not deal with it.... same goes with religion.... a big can of worms we arent interested in opening.
do u see our point at all?
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:51
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-08 17:28, Shaqattack wrote:
and OD one more thing...everything is better when it is under "slight" moderation....
on this site if there isnt any moderation then we would have very fiesty arguments thrown about all over the place which makes it look very unhelpful n shabby
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well, thats a matter of opinion really. i wont mention names, but i have been on other psychedelic trance forums. some with practically NO moderation, and no limit to topic discussion. there is hardly any bickering. and if there is, its usually either very funny or quite an intellectual debate. hardly any childishness. i think if you treat people like adults, they will start to act like it.
i am not in any way disrespecting the way IsraTrance runs this site. It obviously works to a degree. but to be blatently honest, they do need to elaborate on certain guidelines as the vagueness of them often seem to cause confusion or leave room for error.
Its fine to make rules so long as you actually know what they are yourself. |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:51
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Well think about it from "their" point of view. They live in conditions in which their life is at risk every single second. So yeah ours is too, but one would think that for them the risk is just a little bit higher? So after a long day of work and "fear" one pops a can of beer and opens forum.isratrance.com, do you think the first thing they want to read is how Israel is fighting a illegal war and how terrorists are really just freedom fighters, etc etc..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:56
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On 2005-03-08 17:51, Ov3rdos3 wrote:
i wont mention names, but i have been on other psychedelic trance forums. some with practically NO moderation, and no limit to topic discussion. there is hardly any bickering. and if there is, its usually either very funny or quite an intellectual debate. hardly any childishness. i think if you treat people like adults, they will start to act like it.
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Average psynews user is in his 20s, average isratrance user is probably like 16. Besides psynews moderated and banned people too, like bruce and jacob for example..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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ShivaS
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
861
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:56
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well somewhere I agree that other sites with minimum moderation do the thing. But what to do if we are the biggest? (not egoistic point of view but reality). You see 47xx users as Active, but active say that we have that amount of users being active within a month. We have different counters and real amount of users is much more than 10 thousands registered. Also Artists and Labels attracts alot to come and register here. What would u do then? how not to moderate? Do you know we had once Offtopic section and what it became in the end? We are almost 8 years in WWW. This is endless discussion and I know lot of people outside dislike isratrance for being killa forum, if you know what I mean. And we face it without being touched too much just trying improve ourselves and bring more light to the trance culture which is the main and only guide and engine in this world. So each coin has 2 sides and we may discuss it forever..
I may rise, but I won't shine ... |
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 17:57
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On 2005-03-08 17:48, Surrender wrote:
by reading your first post i thought you were acting like the prosecuter, the jury and the judge all at once... it seemed like you didnt even desire a response other then the one you expected. after your second reply (which is more tuned) i think i get your drift. anyway i'll surprise you - and mess up your plan to have this thread locked.
the thing with politics that we are sensitive about is that there really as you say no beginning and no end. you can say this is and that isnt... once we start letting some - why should we discriminate against the other? so it was decided by Shahar and ShivaS when this site was opened many years ago to simply avoid it completely. also, when we do see it, we try not eradicate it, but rather truncate it or stop it right before (as we see it) the point of explosion. things are forums can be misinterpeted very easily, especially when it comes to politics. we rather not deal with it.... same goes with religion.... a big can of worms we arent interested in opening.
do u see our point at all?
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Thank you for your informative answer. that actually does answer a lot of questions for me. Again sorry for my 1st post, i tried to tone it down in the 2nd one.
am i right in saying that basically, if you guys can see that a certain discussion (wether it be political, religious, even Top 10 trance tunes,whatever really) gets out of hand to the point where it is obviously going to result in extreme conflict, then the topic is locked? i can totally understand, and even agree with this.
Thank you. thats makes a bit more sense then. ah, how i love a good argument though |
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 18:00
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On 2005-03-08 17:56, traveller wrote:
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On 2005-03-08 17:51, Ov3rdos3 wrote:
i wont mention names, but i have been on other psychedelic trance forums. some with practically NO moderation, and no limit to topic discussion. there is hardly any bickering. and if there is, its usually either very funny or quite an intellectual debate. hardly any childishness. i think if you treat people like adults, they will start to act like it.
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Besides psynews moderated and banned people too, like bruce and jacob for example..
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yes...for posting gay p0rn constantly. obviously you have to set limits. |
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ShivaS
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
51
Posts :
861
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 18:01
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can we lock now?:)
I may rise, but I won't shine ... |
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Ov3rdos3
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Mar 8, 2005 18:03
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Traveller: Yes. i can understand that the political status of israel right now is a very sensitive subject. i am not a mean or inconsiderate person and i would not poke fun at it or make jokes about it as i know that i have no right to do so. and it would make me kind of an a$$hole too. but then again you have to ask yourself.....are you being selectively ignorant by choosing NOT to deal with something that is very real indeed? |
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