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As an artist...

Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  117
Posts :  3086
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 23:48
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 23:27, Pointy wrote:

"An artist is someone who employs creative talent to produce works of art" and "art refers to all creative human endeavors, excluding actions directly related to survival and reproduction."









Really???
I tought that an artist is a guy with the blue name in the status....you can learn something new everyday...
OK,I have to admit that It was a stupid joke...
          My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them.
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  285
Posts :  6194
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 00:17
Cane and Pointy,user Fu Hsi answered for me           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
shahar
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2037
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 00:22
If it is already mentioned I recommend all to go here and read what ott wrote: http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/55859/forum/1/start/225

I liked it a lot.

And yes, please, stay on the topic. It is interesting and some interesting things have been said that we can learn from.

So if you go on bickering on your names or colors take it somewhere else.

This place is to talk about our music and what surrounds it and not to fight- you wanna fight- take a hike and fight somewhere else, and come back when you're done.
If you go on we just delete- so save us all the time and effort. Thanx.           ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  22
Posts :  629
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 01:54
well I had read otts post and one thing I didnt agree was the fact he says its ok to download from metallica while he thinks nobody should download from him or psytrance artists, just because psytrance artists gain less money.. sorry, I cannot agree there.. Metallica (even if I dont like their music, or their opinions) worked pretty damn hard and for many many years to get where they at.. and ´certain ´ people kept calling downloaders thiefs, and when ott said something like that, I didnt see anybody complaining....

Im not a psytrance artist, but I think that anybody who works hard in something must want some sort of payback.. some may want money, some may want people enjoying.. It all depends of course..

I think supporting the music is a good thing, and I do it too, but I dont think that supporting the music can only be done by buying.. There are many ways to do it.. One of them is buying cds, yes..

I see people getting to defensive in this place.. Getting angry, calling people names, blaming groups or certain people for the problems in the scene.. I dont believe in that.. It doesnt help, and even makes it worse... Why are these people like this? Because they have a certain model of how things are supposed to be, of how the scene or the world should work.. They identify themselves with this model so much that the model almost becomes them.. A criticism to the model is a personal attack to them...

There are things that one might think need to be changed.. Complaining doesnt change... Understanding, being open to change one´s opinion, and argumenting might...
I really like shahar´s signature.. You should be the change.. Being the change is not complaining.. Its acting.. Its taking a new stance, its being able to be changed from inside too...

I hear too much about how trance is dead.. It´s as dead as you want it to be.... Want it to be alive? Its alive.. The prover proves what the thinker thinks

My words dont have an aim, dont have an order.. I dont even know what the hell Im saying here... I probably didnt write well and Im not going to re-read it... I hope somebody makes something out of this..

I need to sleep...
Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  235
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 03:10
Quote:


Im not a psytrance artist, but I think that anybody who works hard in something must want some sort of payback.. some may want money, some may want people enjoying.. It all depends of course..




Sherlockalian u r a little bit unfair here, and if I may say that phraze up there is the common mistake everyone making. Let me explain something for the 100th time, but with this phraze / example it might work.

It can be both actually... Artists can make music to give joy to crowd, and earn some bucks for a living. IT IS OK PPL NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. If certain artist makes money out of his music, it doesnt mean automatically the crowd stops enjoying... And on the other hand, and more important one - The artist that makes his crowd go over the top but doesnt have bread from his work or will die from hunger, or will go to work in some other job ( or he has a rich dad ).

Please - money is not that filthy - all of u ppl including u Sherlockalien use it. Artists entitled to use it too, and should get some to use, if their music is good enough to be in 10,000 homes in mp3 format.

That is why I would write to my drawer inspite the great pleasure of seing ppl enjoy, they would have to see me play to enjoy from my drawer music, yeah.

Last phraze was to bring us back to the topic yo           http://perfectlystrange.com
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:15
Quote:

On 2005-02-23 01:54, sherlockalien wrote:
well I had read otts post and one thing I didnt agree was the fact he says its ok to download from metallica



I didn't. I just said that I [personally] don't care if you do.

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:21
I sure understood it as that you think it's ok.
Quote:

You wanna go and download loads of Pink Floyd albums? Go ahead. Pink Floyd are all worth a hundred million each. They don't need your £2.

Britney? Go for it - she's worth 70-odd million.

Metallica? I downloaded the Black album just to spite Lars Ulrich. I never listen to it [its shit] but the sound of a multi-millionaire complaining that people are ripping him off for $0.5 is enough to make me want to vomit on him.


"Go ahead", "Go for it", "I downloaded"

Well the exact phrase "it's ok" is not in there, but if someone tells me "go ahead" it does seem like he's giving his "ok".           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:27
Quote:

On 2005-02-23 13:21, Spindrift wrote:
I sure understood it as that you think it's ok.



You know, I was tempted to contribute to this thread yesterday but I figured that every time I open my mouth, either you or your little buddy EYB will jump on my back and try to start an argument.

Just for clarity, what you "understood" and what I "actually said" are two different things.
CLAW
CLAW

Started Topics :  117
Posts :  2738
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:33
Guys, this is a story with no end...
Different ppl, different perspectives... Dont u see that each and everyone is trying to pass his/her opinion, everyone is trying to dominate others etc...

Ok we all got our point of view... Whether we see some ppl as artists or not, is our point of view. Some of us have the word 'art' in our brain different, than some other ppl, there is no right or wrong....

Its just what we belive and what the ppl from our circle of life belive, do not try to pass words to the masses... Lerave that for the presitents

Personally I listen what i like, whether this is a cheap artist, or a fucking millioner artist... As long as it triggers my brain y not... ?

The mp3 whole situation and downloading stuff, i guess it will never end, is a multi-opinion matter, and if this debate goes for 2 years creating 1203 replies and 5000 pages of thread, no-one will find a solution and no-one will say right or wrong... ITs just OPINIONS...

So ppl, I see that this thread has turned out to be a discussion of 5-6 ppl exchanging ideas and opinions...
There are looong and huge answers from some users that it is impossible for someone to follow...

Anyways, take care all & and be cool           
• Noize Conspiracy Records •
http://soundcloud.com/c-l-a-w
https://www.facebook.com/CLAW.cy
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:49
Quote:

On 2005-02-23 13:27, Ott^ wrote:

You know, I was tempted to contribute to this thread yesterday but I figured that every time I open my mouth, either you or your little buddy EYB will jump on my back and try to start an argument.

Just for clarity, what you "understood" and what I "actually said" are two different things.


Sorry.
Off course it is to start an arguement if I don't agree with you or is trying to get a clarification of what you actually said.

I think you need to chill a bit and accept that people in a discussion might ask "what do you mean with that" or say "i understood it like this"
That is not a personal attack on you.
But you seem to have a habit of quickly turn it in to one instead of clarifying what you ment.

So fine.
According to you "go ahead" does not seem like an "ok" to you.
I'm just trying to say that not only sherlockalien but also I understood it like that.

If you think that everyone who don't agree with you or cannot undertstand your subtle nuances between different expressions is trying to start an argument you have a problem with being able to have a sensible discussion IMO.           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:54


*Yawn*
Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 13:56
Before I upset people again with my comments I just make a few quotes:

Quote:

Cane:
When music becomes work it also becomes commercial since you would always do the most selling genres.
--
Person with whole talent in the world can't make music 18 hours because music is feelings which come and go. Real musician can have productive hours or not but not 10 hours per day work time.


Spindrift:
The commerce clearly takes away the spirit and the creativeness from the scene what I can see.
--
Sure an artist generally put in more love in his work than a lawyer.
But you don't get paied in the current system for how much love you put in.
My impression is rather that you most of the time have to put aside what you love to make money.
--
In the end it's like being a prostitute to do what you do out of love for a living.
When you have to do it for 12hrs a day to be able to pay your rent you will stop getting pleasure out of it.


slyman604:
I cant stand most the music that comes out from the "professionals". Its all boring and formula based. The interesting stuff has been by crazy fuckers making psy out of the joy of making psy.
--
The music industry has also contributed to the delusion of the art maker. So many people who make art think just the fact that they make art means they DESERVE to gain the status of some huge rock star
--
Artist who claim they want to make money so they can produce better art are frauds and probly self deluded. No one is being stopped from making an album that blows away are you shpongled because they have to work a day job. Maybe a day job would slow the process down a bit but nothing more.


Piet Mondrian:
The position of the artist is humble. He is essentially a channel.


Marcel Duchamp:
The creative act is not performed by the artist alone; the spectator brings the work in contact with the external world by deciphering and interpreting its inner qualifications and thus adds his contribution to the creative act.


Michelle Shocked:
Making music should not be left to the professionals.



          "*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..·´¨` .¸¸.·´¨`»
Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 14:01
Quote:

So fine.
According to you "go ahead" does not seem like an "ok" to you.
I'm just trying to say that not only sherlockalien but also I understood it like that.


You forgot about me.
I also understood Ott's comments in the way that in his opinion it is OK to download Metallica.

I still understand it like that and *Yawn* doesn't explain it in any other way.           "*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..·´¨` .¸¸.·´¨`»
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 14:10
Pointy - trust me - *Yawn* absolutely says it all.


Oh - and thanks for proving my point much better than I could.

traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  234
Posts :  3803
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 14:17
C'mon people, it's pretty black & white issue. Metallica makes millions and millions of € out of every single album released and probably like a million € a gig. Why the phuck do they care if 200 000 people downloaded their latest album? Now instead of building a new 70 million € homes they'll have to do with a 65 million € homes. Poor bastards.

Now think of average Joe the psytrance maker. Had he been very, very lucky his album would have sold 15 000 (?) copies. Which would have made him 30 000 (?) € richer. He could have bought some new hardware and live another year in pretty asthetic way. Now instead a thousand people bought his album and 40 000 downloaded it. He got a few thousand €. Now he's wondering how to pay the rent next month and so on. Okay cool he gets to travell for free at summer and maybe even gets paid 500€ a gig.

Tell me there's no difference..
          "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven
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