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As an artist...
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Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
235
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 17:24
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@ Spindrift
Man, this discussion is really stuck yo. I never said in last half a year that I regard ppl that download from the net as 'thieves'. I always stated that there was a technological change to which all of us need to rearrange ourselves and the massive downloading is part of it. I also said I dont like it but there is not much I can do.
This topic is wether artists would write their music and give it thru the net freely.
My answer to this was that I prefer to write music to my drawer. The answer derived straightly from the fact I make the music cuz I need to make. If there are ppl enjoying from it for me it is a bonus ( large bonus yeah ), but I will definitely make music even if everyone that hears it would say it is crap and waste of time.
The reason I would not just send it flow on the internet, as I explained before is very simple - ppl in trance scene don't appreciate art anymore ( most of them at least ), and therefore I have no reason to feed them. If some one wants to hear my music he will come to my DJ sets and will enjoy it fully from WAV.
@ EYB
Dont take it hard mate, I meant the other thread where u and your pals were puking all over from what OTT had to say.
@ all the rest that still think that we cliam it is ok to d/l from rich artists and corporations:
NO IT IS ILLEGAL AND ITS WRONG.
THE REASON IT WAS WRITTEN THO IS BECAUSE THERE WAS A WISH FOR SOME OF U TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A SMALL NUMBER OF 3000 MP3 DOWNLOADS MEAN TO SUPERGROUP IN A MAJOR LABEL AND WHAT IT MEANS TO TRANCE ARTIST.
I really dont know how can I explain that issue more clear than I did. I guess that was the last time. If someone doesn't get it now - just go to the doctor.
  http://perfectlystrange.com |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 19:42
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So, what do you say (and excuse me for quoting myself:
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But wait, we can work a system like that here as well- you like this artists's art? Help him make more. Buy it. So simple. Now if you can't, then don't, but always remember- this artist would not be able to make more of what you like. So when you can- buy!
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Can we all agree on that?
Anyone thinks that is not fair?
I read through all the posts, and I think that everyone can agree on this- what do you say?
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Watter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
184
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 19:50
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Shahar, I am 100000000% behind you on that!!!!
Look (hear) the art first and if you indeed like it, then just buy it to support the artis.... even though I think that we should be able to buy the stuff directly from the artist....... I am sure I would prefer that!!!
"open your mind....you might just see that there isn't anything to be seen" |
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sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
629
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 19:50
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if buy can also mean go to gigs, then yes I agree 
(I like to buy cds too... but I do not have unlimited money to buy all cds I want)
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olivier
Side-A
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1303
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 21:44
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-23 15:41, Spindrift wrote:
My position is that if I would be genrerating millons from an album I would be more concerned with people ripping me off than if I get $500 for an album.
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yes but you are not... big difference... imho it's better not to overestimate ourselves too much and imagine what we could do if we were perfect people living in a perfect world...
in a utopical world i would be god and everyone on this planet would dance naked in an ocean of love ...
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 21:51
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Beware...Long post filled with observations and conjectures:
The problem here seems that each post seems to emphasize only one side of the equation and using dielectic (aka dual) reasoning to create a "good vs evil" scenerio, not unlike certain religious fanatics, or certain high-ranking U.S. political officials. Ultimately the "morality" of this situation is embodied in the ecomomics and the conscience of the parties involved. Let's define some terms.
We have two-sides of the equation:
The producer <---> The consumer
We have different degrees of economic "wellness": poor, middle-class, rich.
Let's define the economic terms:
I like to define a "rich" person as someone who's money makes enough money to support their living habits. So technically, I could be "rich" and living in a cheapo tralier, if my dividends in Microsoft yielded enough to pay for my way of living, I don't have to work, I consider this "rich". It's a sliding scale concept as opposed to the tradional view of "rich" being "having a big house, making a lot money, expensive car...". That becomes moot if your $10000/day coke habit exceeds your income, you'll have nothing in time.
I like to define a poor person as a person who either can (or cannot) meet their living expenses but am unable to move upward in the economic hierarchy. A single working two jobs to support her children is probably unable to take the time to learn more valued skills to make a job advancement. She will probably stay in her situation for most of her life. There's the Maslow "hierarchy of needs" pyramid, and the poor are typically on the bottom rungs. There are suprising cases though. Many traditionalist-mindset people would think that a buddhist monk, who owns nothing but the clothes on his back and the begging bowl, is poor. But I think you will find that their needs are so minimal (according to the buddhist doctrine of eschewing wants), that they probably receive a bounty (many donations of food), in their eyes, and therefore aren't really poor, thus enabling them to work on higher levels of the Maslow pyramid.
I like to define the middle-class by exclusion, that is- if you're not poor, if you're not rich, you fit somewhere in the middle-class. There are many shades here. I would assume that most of us on isratrance fit somewhere in here. As you reach towards the "rich" side, you have more disposible income and are more capable of purchasing. Towards the low-end, each non-necessary purchase may deprive you of some cushion money if adversity strikes.
We have:
rich producer
middle-class producer
poor producer
<-->
rich consumer
middle-class consumer
poor consumer
Obviously the morality of the downloading/purchase scenerio depends on which consumer interacts with which producer.
Let's take the Metallica vs "poor consumer" scenerio. If you are poor and had the opportunity to grab a Metallica album for free (using your friend's internet connection probably), I think it's less than certain whether Lars should sue you. Do you fault a starving person for stealing a loaf of bread? Ever read Les Miserables? The same applies to a "poor consumer" getting a freebee download of both of Ott's albums (Ott is probably not a "rich producer"). From what I read of his statements, he would not chasitize this poor soul or take them to court. If the music is enriching to someone with very little, we think this is a good thing.
Now, I would question the "rich consumer" who freely downloads either Metallica or Ott's albums, and really enjoys these works, and feels no need to compensate in any way. This is a "let them eat cake" mentality. Notice that I precluded this scenerio with consumer satisfaction, so i've added another tangible into this situation. The situtation isn't a clear-cut slam-dunk black-and-white deal. What if Richie Rich downloads Metallica and thinks it's total crap, it could be argued the necessity of him paying Metallica is minimized. If you think that he should pay Metallica regardless, this is the same mentality that says that "exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph is speeding and therefore in violation of the law and must be prosecuted".
So most of us are middle-class, we have enough spare time and internet access to be in this forum. There are certainly a large number of degrees of disposible income here. Everyone here probably has enough money at some time to purchase music, and yes, there is so much music out there that we can't purchase it all. So, we purchase the music we love the most and can afford, or should. And we've heard this before over and over again. This is the consumer's responsibility.
As a producer, I believe in a sliding-scale/donation based payment system. although the distributer sells at a fixed price (for necessary reasons), however, in person, I don't fix a price. That usually throws people for a loop cause if it forces you to think about what you want to pay, or what this music is really worth. More often than not people pay the social-standard $10 for a manufactured digipak CD. Of course I give them away too.
Part of this my statement is a proposal, part of it observed behavour. I think if you look at what really happens in the music industry with regards to piracy, I think things tend to falls along these lines. Plus alot of irresponsible consumers.
What is necessary for everything i've just said is a degree of compassion and empathy on behalf of the producer and consumer towards each other. If one lacks this then everything is clear, cut-and dry: each unit of Metallica's "Total Shite" shall be dispensed at $15.99 per CD unit, in the U.S., period. No barter, no exceptions.
So I debate how "wrong" it is for some people to get download for free. even the law recognizes different degrees of "wrong" (but strangely, not "right").
I know the number of illegal copies of my work far exceeds those sold thru legitimate channels. However i'm in a financial situation where my day job far eclipses those lost costs. At least a bunch of people enjoy it- a strange satisfaction. Otherwise, it takes fair number of record sales to earn a living wage.
The whole analogy works for software piracy too. I have used pirated version of software, over time certain pieces of software become the cornerstone of how I make music. I've eventually purchased that software. With software, it's a tool you use over and over so it's easier to be prompted to support the company by a purchase. With music, people tend to listen to a (pirated) disc for a month or so, then it gets filed away, a new disc takes it's place on the listening list. It's more difficult to be reminded to perhaps purchase that first disc. These are things consciencious people should stay aware of. But it's also a mentality you must work at developing too, if you think it's right for you.
happy happy joy joy,
dean
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 23, 2005 22:24
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-23 15:41, EYB wrote:
I as artist am happy if people enjoy my art. The way how they get it doesn't interest me. I don't want money for it. I am also happy if people enjoy to use plugins i made, also for them i don't want money. If people enjoy the music, my fractal art, the using of my plugins they can feel the joy i had making it. For me it is fun and expression of my mind. Also it is learning and building structures for my brain. I am happy about the internet, so people can see and listen to things i made by myself. It is not about respect, not about money, it is about fun and happieness, about expression of my feelings -good and bad-. It is about showing what i do in my life and who i am. Of course people see and listen very small parts of me, but thats enough to share something.
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Feb 24, 2005 00:42
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EYB- if you're happy with your situation, then i'm happy for you. In the end, it's about having a sense of purpose and, hopefully, fullfillling that purpose. Anguish comes into play when you don't have that sense, or you have it and it's just outside of your grasp, or, you lost it. A scenerio I can personally speak for, is that my work/fun balance is a bit out-of-kilter, leaning towards the work side. I'm sure there are millions out there who feel the same way. My idea of fun is making music. If I had more time, i'd feel more dedicated to my percieved purpose (which perhaps isn't my true purpose, in the long run). The alternative approach is to embody a greater a sense of purpose in the day-job work that I do, simply an attitude adjustment. Maybe my ego is too big, but making music let's me feel as though i'm realizing my vision rather than being part of a large team realizing someone else's vision. Plus, making music always yields suprises.
many minds, many views.
-dean
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<insert album plug here, hint: artist name kinda sounds like a hindu monkey-man subdiety, with wings>
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Cane
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
47
Posted : Feb 24, 2005 01:52
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What is sure gig is much more reasonable way to pay artists imho, more even much more money ans sometime live performance or dj sets made with art. |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
Posts :
3086
Posted : Sep 26, 2006 20:41
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Is this thread still alive nearly 2 years after???
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Sep 26, 2006 21:46
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On 2006-09-26 20:41, Justin Chaos wrote:
Is this thread still alive nearly 2 years after???
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We need a doctor i reckon to decide.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Pythagoraz
TimeDrained / Pythagoraz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
337
Posted : Sep 27, 2006 03:53
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 27, 2006 05:55
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i can only mention Texas Faggott , Squaremeat , and many more , that share their new music and albums and unrealese to the net , getting more bookings probably then many artists who realese more on actual cd.. intresting hey
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Oct 3, 2006 22:49
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i want people to listen to my music..if there's an artist out there that doesn't think like me, i don't want to buy their music.. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Oct 3, 2006 23:39
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qane - are you kidding?
"if there's an artist out there that doesn't think like me, i don't want to buy their music.. "
haha thats just too insane 
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