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As an artist...

mono mono
Onnomon

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  314
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:18
There IS A DIFFERENCE if you've got to work a day job and you want to make art. There's a certainly amount of concentrated effort required to make quantum leaps of ideas, techniques, and realized output. Why should craft artists who make pretty tea pots and fashionable drink holders be allowed to make a living and not musical composers? Believe me there are a shitload of craft artists making pretty good livings making wrought-iron gates, wicker chairs, salt-and-pepper shakers. Aye, you say that this stuff is practical and has everyday value for everyday people...life without music is not life. The practicality of music is demonstrated by the fact that there is a music industry. The problem we have in this forum is that the little speck of style we call "psy" doesn't "pull enough heart strings" in the world to garner that sub-fractional fiscal response large enough to pay the bills of those spend the time to craft it. At some point an artist will anguish, especially at the self-realization of their technical and creative limitations. So putting good music together is not all shits, giggles, strawberries and cream, especially if you're conscious about not "making another one from the mold". Of course you should make a bunch from the same mold, for sake of efficiency, the more output, the more possibilities of creating a gem amidst the gravel.

Contrary to Fu Hsi's statement, I (anonynous musical artist) will eventually put everything on the net, even the earlier, "inferior" stuff. The time when I can get another couple of days per week to dedicate to making the sound is when I can take it to the next level.

To enhance your chances of distribution success an artists really needs to flog their wares, "shameless self-promotion" and the like. Yes, I know musicians who make a living making music (and not just lounge jazz or cover band stuff) and they spend a serious portion of their energy trying to market themselves. Like any business venture. On the isratrance forum I could certainly create another anonymous username then post messages certainly to keep my "topic" on the top of the boards. It's certainly discouraging to see your album review slip slowly off the radar screen by people replying to old topics with messages containing only the words "killr", "skazi rulz". I haven't used this trick yet, still conquering the world one PA at a time.

art is a mirror, art is a hammer.

-dz

Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  235
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:34
@ mono mono

I used to share my old music, and I put it on my site long time ago, hehe it was music from 1997 - 8 - 9 and at that time i was really happy I can share with others, things I did back in the beginning and I thought were of listening value.

I did this some 4 or 5 years ago when the broadband format of downloading music was not available to the masses, and there fore I felt, or at least imagined that ppl actually respect art, and that is why I was very happy to share this music with others.

@ Shahar

I think that your group 1, 2, 3 explanation is not enough ( rather crude in my opinion ) but if I must choose I am closer to group no. 1. I must add that those of group no. 1 have friends from group no. 1 so they are not totally alone actually.

Group number 3, on the other hand, I like those guys but they are kinda funny, since it is like watching Don Quixote fighting the windmills. In my opinion they waste their time. I advise them to join group number 1. Actually, in the end if they do that, it might be that someone will notice we are missing, and the loss will be big enough to make changes to bring us back...

Sorry for the blabbering

pls go on           http://perfectlystrange.com
Mali


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  98
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:46


I don't understand why people are ready to pay money for the most stupid things on this planet, but not for the most beautiful one - ART

That's why Mozart ended up in a mass crave...



mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:51
Fu Hsi,

I really don't see the current social dichotomy really noticing that we are missing. The way things currently are, there are more than enough people that are willing to work with the current system to accomplish their personal goals. We would be left by the wayside and the status quo would continue as normal. By taking a seperatist attitude toward the situation those people would be viewed as those who felt that they did not need to change the system from within and would do better creating their own structure. What would happen when the negative aspects that drove you from the previous social system reared their heads in the new system that was created? Would you break and start a new one from there?? It would seem that the circle would indeed start anew.

This seperatism would also paint a picture of elitism inside a social system that could already be considered having a sense of elitism as it is. So we now have these groups that have closed themselves off of the rest of the whole due to not wanting to deal with the problems of the whole. This for me is the direct opposite of what the music seems to want to do. We are trying to unite eachother through this music, which is why there is a huge global community, to divide ourselves into sects would seem to be a total paradox.           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:52
@shahar
Nice post
And very nice to see some sensible reflections around on this subject.
I do agree with a lot about what you are saying.
I don't think that we can be totally outside this society but that we should do what we can to change it into what something better.
And that can mean adjusting to the commercial system as well. I'm not against earning money in commercial ways.

The point where we differ is that from my experience making money of your music does not make it easier to make better music.
Like I said, hardly even more.
There is just no demand for several albums per year from an artist. So sitting working with music 12 hrs a day will not mean that you make much more or better music.
For me personally it's totally the opposite anyway.
Getting out on gig's on the other hand get you out of the studio and can be inspiring. And generally more profitable.

In these times I myself prefer to not even focus on the financial part of the music.
But I'm still acting and integrating with the commercial reality, but in a different way.
For me that feels better, to leave the music and parties as a spiritual sanctuary where I know I can always return for pleasure and joy.
I have seen what struggling with trying to make a living from trance for a few years can do to people.

In the end it's like being a prostitute to do what you do out of love for a living.
When you have to do it for 12hrs a day to be able to pay your rent you will stop getting pleasure out of it.
If you are a luxury musician and can make enough by making an album every few years or so, then it might feel ok, but since we are talking about the trance scene....no thanks.           (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  235
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:53
@ Mali

I will tell u why...

Because most of the time ( at least in our scene ) they are out of Charas / E / Acid or something that costs the same price but lasts few hours. Funny tho, guess what they choose to buy every single time?

VERY IMPORTANT TO READ:

This was written not to insult - I know there are great ppl that just cant afford buying CD's, I mean those that can afford
          http://perfectlystrange.com
hip
Shuma

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  404
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 21:56
I'm with you.

Although I think Mozart ended up in a mass crave cos he didnt know how to deal with the money. He got paid also. Damn - he's not a true artist then

edit: already three posts before me
i was reffering to Mali.
Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  235
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 22:11
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 21:51, mubali wrote:
Fu Hsi,

I really don't see the current social dichotomy really noticing that we are missing. The way things currently are, there are more than enough people that are willing to work with the current system to accomplish their personal goals. We would be left by the wayside and the status quo would continue as normal. By taking a seperatist attitude toward the situation those people would be viewed as those who felt that they did not need to change the system from within and would do better creating their own structure. What would happen when the negative aspects that drove you from the previous social system reared their heads in the new system that was created? Would you break and start a new one from there?? It would seem that the circle would indeed start anew.

This seperatism would also paint a picture of elitism inside a social system that could already be considered having a sense of elitism as it is. So we now have these groups that have closed themselves off of the rest of the whole due to not wanting to deal with the problems of the whole. This for me is the direct opposite of what the music seems to want to do. We are trying to unite eachother through this music, which is why there is a huge global community, to divide ourselves into sects would seem to be a total paradox.




Well the reason I have chosen group no.1 as I said earlier is because I think that it is a total waste of time and energy to be in group 3. I tell u more than that - I seriously believe that most of those that join group no.3 sooner or later will become too faced ppl that actually surrendered to the mass, and now they are playing the double game. I know many ppl like this, and well I do believe that they have started exactly the way Shahar said - with the pure idea.

BTW those that keep with their faith might end up as Hunter S. Thompson check out the special thread to his memory

The system is too big for a bug like me to change. But it has the power to change me, if I stay within too close, or for too long time. I prefer to be out. For now at least.           http://perfectlystrange.com
shahar
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2037
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 22:18
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 21:52, Spindrift wrote:
...
The point where we differ is that from my experience making money of your music does not make it easier to make better music.
Like I said, hardly even more
...



It does when you have nothing to eat or nowhere to live...

And about the rest I don't think we differ.
          ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 22:45
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 22:18, shahar wrote:
It does when you have nothing to eat or nowhere to live...


Sure does...it aint easy to make music if you don't have a place to put your gear and have nothing to eat.

But since trance is not the way to a quick buck, thats when I start looking for another way to make money.
And if you find that then the income from the music does not matter anymore.

I understand that it can be difficult and many people have a hard time finding a job, and without skills and qualifications the kind of jobs you maight be able to get will drain you out so you cant concentrate on music on your spare time.
But I don't think it has to be harder than fulfilling a music carrier where you get a stable income from your creativity.
It's up to each and everyone to make their choice, but thats the attitude I have been having to my music.
To me it just don't seem like the fans will adjust to my wishes, and if they don't pay I have to make something that people pay for.

I choose what I make a living out of. If it don't work I try harder or I choose again.
I might be a bit crass view, but I don't think my personal dissapointments is something to openly project to other people by blaming anyone for me failing.

Sure we can change the world if we try, but if I don't have food on the table and can't pay the bill I do something else until I have time for changeing the world.

Actually that reminded me...I should concentrate on my work a bit instead of trying to change the world or at least anyones opinions in this forum right now...
          (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  22
Posts :  629
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 22:55
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 21:53, Fu Hsi wrote:
@ Mali

I will tell u why...

Because most of the time ( at least in our scene ) they are out of Charas / E / Acid or something that costs the same price but lasts few hours. Funny tho, guess what they choose to buy every single time?

VERY IMPORTANT TO READ:

This was written not to insult - I know there are great ppl that just cant afford buying CD's, I mean those that can afford



off topic:

just one small point here..
be careful when judging.... the results of an acid may just as well be MUCH more lasting and deep and meaningful than a small material possession such as a mere cd, which will be rotten in a few years, while your mind might be changed forever by a psychedelic experience

that being said.. I still think its nice to get those originals
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 22:58
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 22:11, Fu Hsi wrote:
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 21:51, mubali wrote:
Fu Hsi,

I really don't see the current social dichotomy really noticing that we are missing. The way things currently are, there are more than enough people that are willing to work with the current system to accomplish their personal goals. We would be left by the wayside and the status quo would continue as normal. By taking a seperatist attitude toward the situation those people would be viewed as those who felt that they did not need to change the system from within and would do better creating their own structure. What would happen when the negative aspects that drove you from the previous social system reared their heads in the new system that was created? Would you break and start a new one from there?? It would seem that the circle would indeed start anew.

This seperatism would also paint a picture of elitism inside a social system that could already be considered having a sense of elitism as it is. So we now have these groups that have closed themselves off of the rest of the whole due to not wanting to deal with the problems of the whole. This for me is the direct opposite of what the music seems to want to do. We are trying to unite eachother through this music, which is why there is a huge global community, to divide ourselves into sects would seem to be a total paradox.




Well the reason I have chosen group no.1 as I said earlier is because I think that it is a total waste of time and energy to be in group 3. I tell u more than that - I seriously believe that most of those that join group no.3 sooner or later will become too faced ppl that actually surrendered to the mass, and now they are playing the double game. I know many ppl like this, and well I do believe that they have started exactly the way Shahar said - with the pure idea.

BTW those that keep with their faith might end up as Hunter S. Thompson check out the special thread to his memory

The system is too big for a bug like me to change. But it has the power to change me, if I stay within too close, or for too long time. I prefer to be out. For now at least.





I do understand your position on this situation. However at the same time, change is not made by one person, it is made by multiple people banding together to accomplish the common goal. If the world were made up of people that felt themselves as an indivdual could do nothing to change what is currently happening, then nothing would be accomplished and several revolutions and movements would never have occurred. You are right, more often than not one voice doesn't do jack, but that one voice can spur a bunch of other voices to combine as a chorus of voices saying the same thing.           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Cane

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  47
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 23:18
Detox i'm an artists but i do not release music so i can't call myself artist due to forum rules. So i do music for 5 years. I'm not saying me is an artist but surely 95% of psy scene has nothing close to be an art. I've seen huge amount of this forum memberstalking bullshit about other genres threating themselfs as special basing on genre they do listen which is psychedelic.

This was first reason why i enter this thread, second reason is guys who asked and answer before me are not artists as well so i had no problem to answer as you had no tag.

Kemical, dear i'm booked as well time to time but it doesn't represent my artistic level, maybe commercial only. BUT BUT BUT live shows in an musical art and technologic knowledge if it's done really live. Which is true artist behavior imho. Since you don't really can produce live show you not an artist in my eyes same as lame advertiser because you got catched by many ppl.
Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 23:27
What makes you think I am not an artist DETOX?

"An artist is someone who employs creative talent to produce works of art" and "art refers to all creative human endeavors, excluding actions directly related to survival and reproduction."

Just for your knowledge!



          "*)
..*) .*)
(. (.` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..` ..`
Fu Hsi
Perfect Stranger

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  235
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 23:37
I think that the writer of this thread meant artists that had some experience from the business side of the trance scene too, but who am I to say what he meant. In any case I agree with u Cane for the 95% remark.

@ Pointy - look man it is not about quarreling and fighting all the time - this thread might be interesting ( as was the other long one where u guys flamed OTT and made it totally offtopic ) so please don't take it offtopic too, cuz maybe it is still issue that interest some ppl.
          http://perfectlystrange.com
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