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A (very) provocative post :-)
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nobody_3
Inactive User
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 17:51
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It seem to me that this scene need a final cut into 2 camps. The full On/Psy camp and the Tech/progressive camp.
Isen't it time that we do a clean cut down the middle and devide the scene into 2? To me there's a lot more than the music taste (which is also a good argument for splitting the scene in 2) that play a role to why I would like to see it devided. It's also got something to do with people's attitudes and the way they approach the music and the scene (see now I am getting very provocative - LOL).
I have been a part of the goa/psy scene since 1992 both as a spectator and as a producer/DJ and I don't think I ever have been feeling more distanced from it all than now. I am sure many will say it's just me and that I am getting too old and they are properly right 
Ok back to the main road.
What I am getting at is that it's more than just the music. It's also attitude and the way we see things in life. The Full On/psy scene is still stuck in the somehow "neo" hippy mentality where it's cool to know how to say "Boom" and where it's all "Killer" and very cool to wear the same Space Tribe clothes as the other 5.000 people at the festival/party. It seem as if the scene is made up of way too many kids (15 +) that only go to the parties and listen to the music because it's cool these days. Another trend so to say !
LOL I told you it would get provocative
By now I am sure everybody know that I am into progressive and not Full On - True !
Well actually I do like psy as long as it's not Infected and GMS and all the other clones but hey that's just my taste and I have nothing against people that like this kind of music - I would just like to see them in another scene than the progressive scene... and now to the BIG question - WHY?
Because I feel that both scenes will benefit much more this way. We will see parties where people will get the music they like. Of couse there have to be room for experimentation and surprises but overall people deserve to get what they pay for!
We all know that progressive is not as big as Full On/psy. So why not just split it into 2? - and let's get on with our lives
Ok enough ranting from my part
PS! I know that the progressive scene have it's stereotypes too....
My example above about stereotyping people from the Full On scene was as I said - a provocation.
You're welcome to provoke me back
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patrick
IsraTrance Junior Member
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108
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 19:26
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i think this already happened here... more or less at least. and its a very good thing!
me personally is tired of that "neo-hippy-bullshit" and dont like that in parties.
i also think that the full-on crowd is overall
a bit younger than the progressive posse.
so instead of complaining, seperation is imo
indeed the solution.
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 19:31
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If we're into provoking here, allow me to retort:
The problem is for people that are somewhere in the middle (like I am)... sure, I don't like musical stereotypes, which automatically negates both the big things in the full-on AND in the progressive scenes (sorry to say, but the progressive scene is changing from the "deep brainfuck" music to "we want to be clubbers, only more elitistic, because we're so clever"). The progressive scene wants to know why it's smaller? Because THERE IS JUST LESS MUSICAL VALUE IN IT. It's not the dancefloor factor - the stompy house wannabe grooves are easily danceable. It's too easy to get caught up in trends and technical nonsense, but not only does that make the music not communicative to most people, it also takes away basic concepts of psychedelic trance.
On the other hand, full-on (just as you said) is becoming more like MTV music... a cover for dire straights? Just as tactfull as using Pink Floyd in hip hop. What? Don't think there's room to compare? Sorry to tell you, IT'S THE SAME THING. Just like 80s music, the mainstream dominates the underground in sound and feeling. Thank god the 80s are over, but when will full-on learn that you can do things a bit deeper than just bouncy basses and fluffy melodies (with distortion when it's 'underground').
And then you have some acts that actually try and do something with musical value, energy and depth. I've heard Saiko Pod tracks played in both full on and progressive sets. Wizzy Noise, Prometheus, the list isn't really that short. Unfortunately, anyone who defines himself in a subgenre today doesn't try doing all three of those at the same time (minimalists without musical value, full-onists without depth, fluffed-up wankers without any energy).
Be honest, out of the tracks that stand out, REALLY stand out... how many of them fit snugly into a subgenre? Personally, I used to be a GMS fan, but it takes me time to name some of their tracks even though I knew them by heart. Same with Son Kite. Same with a few goa compilations too... Splitting the scene will only stop people from learning as much from other artists, which would be a damn shame.
 http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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TrancEisT
IsraTrance Full Member
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127
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494
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 19:43
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Do not devide us, unite us.
be one.
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Ron Lyner
Ron Lyner
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685
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 19:52
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i totaly agree with Elysium Project.
there is no progressive in parties here..
yesterday i went to a party, when i came i heard some good progressive trance..
but it was over after 30 minutes...
and after that (4 am) they started to play fullon..
only full on and it was the kind of full on that i cant listen to..
i think that the party orginizers should say what kind of music will be in the parties.
even when i know a dj that play progressive will come to these parties and will play less progessive music cause the ppl came to hear some fullon..
now i decided im not going to parties anymore..
only if i know for 100% that its not a full on party...
i don't have any problems with full on..
but i have problem when they put the same style full on that i cant listen to (gms, astrix and all these artists).
i realy think it should be devided to 2 scenes.
even when i know that some of my friends will never come with me to parties where they play only progressive..
i don't care, i cant go to these parties anymore.
http://www.o-zen.com/art/ranal
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You wanna dance?!...I know a tune...it´s called stick and CUT!!
V.L |
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billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 20:21
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most of the progressive crowd were once on the full-on side. now this is my 2 cents:
elysium, I can see that youre in the progy side and I see that youre an artist too. so tell me that, how does the young generation will turn into your side and start listening to progy (and by that increase the size of the crowd in proggy parties) if you lock him in a full-on bubble?
check out! www.soundclick.com/spasm |
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Ron Lyner
Ron Lyner
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685
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 20:39
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this "young generation" is already lock in a full on bubble..
they locked theirselves in it
http://www.o-zen.com/art/ranal
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You wanna dance?!...I know a tune...it´s called stick and CUT!!
V.L |
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salvia_divinorum
IsraTrance Junior Member
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22
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 20:53
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Quote:
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On 2003-09-20 19:31, kaz wrote:
sorry to say, but the progressive scene is changing from the "deep brainfuck" music to "we want to be clubbers, only more elitistic, because we're so clever"
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lol, you're so right 
i also don't think it should be divided. after all - we're talking about TRANCE music, trance is trance, who cares about full-on, prog, goa, if you know what i mean... and for me a good track is a good track no matter if it fits into the full-on, prog, minimal or whatever category. who invented those categories anyway? good music is good music and that's it. let's not be close minded and stick to one of those genres just bc "full on lovers are just drugged kids" and "prog lovers are elitistic clubbers" (like kaz put it so well). like it was already said... this way we wouldn't be able to discover new sounds, new music, stuck in a full-on/prog bubble and we'd be a lot more ignorants musically speaking.
ron lyner, you're giving another proof that prog lovers are very elitistic... come on, i know a lot of young people who likes prog, i'm 17 and i prefer full on than prog (even though i really prefer dark psy stuff, nothing of that gms/skazi stuff), that's true, but i also like lots of prog tracks and can appreciate good proggy acts... i'm going to see paste tonight and i'm excited for that! so please, again, open your minds!
just my opinion
When I dance, I put myself in the DJ's hands to take me to a journey - the unconscious journey to reality
KARKEIJA KREW!!!!!!!! dancing is the phrr fo da powa |
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Christian
D-Nox
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55
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 21:05
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Hi Mr. Elysium, cool topic!
But I think we don`t need to devide it into 2 scenes. It would take to much energie and time, before we arrive this destination we already would listen to onther new music (you know).
I wish that peoples of all scenes would respect each other and especialy respect all kind of music.
The problem is that you get tired if you only listen to full on or what ever. If not maybe you have never got the option to listen any other music or you are just to slow. But for sure some day you will discover new music and you will be so happy about it.
I also think that our protagonists (DJ`s, Promoters and all the people who are responsible for hypes) should be the first ones. Be open, forget your mindborders and just dance and laugh!!!
To Ron and all the prog lovers in Israel - What a boring situation. Only full on - its like wearing the same slip for the whole year. Why it is like this? If you know why than you know how to change it.
peace!!!
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Mike A
Subra
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185
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3954
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 21:05
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How do you plan to split the scene?
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Ron Lyner
Ron Lyner
Started Topics :
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685
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 21:22
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its a matter of taste..
most of fullon listeners don't like minimal/progressive..
and most of the progressive listeners don't like full-on...
so its not that we'r elitistic, its just that the progressive scene is much much smaller so it looks like its elitistic, but its the same..
well im only 20 years old so im in this "young generation", but im into progressive..
Elysium Project said everything i have to say..
another thing...
"fullon people" says bad stuff about progressive even more the "progressive people" say about fullon..
i hear this everyday...
so its clear that the trance scene is devided..
and it wasn't done by the "progressive people"
its because the party orginizers invites only fullon djs and artists to their parties because its bring more people..
and even when they invite a progressive dj to play its only one set..
and after that set it turns into a fullon party...
http://www.o-zen.com/art/ranal
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You wanna dance?!...I know a tune...it´s called stick and CUT!!
V.L |
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salvia_divinorum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Sep 20, 2003 21:37
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for start, there shouldn't be "full on people" and "progressive people", but just "trance people". there should be union and also diversity! here in portugal you only have a prog party every 2 or 3 months, or even more... that's a problem party organizers should solve, but not by dividing the scene - the best option would be to have only full on parties, only prog parties and both full on and prog parties, this way everyone would be satisfied - people who like diversity in parties (like myself) and people that like to stick to only one genre.
When I dance, I put myself in the DJ's hands to take me to a journey - the unconscious journey to reality
KARKEIJA KREW!!!!!!!! dancing is the phrr fo da powa |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
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234
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3803
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 22:05
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it's just music..
if you don't like the music..
don't go to the parties..
just don't listen to the music..
now..
i'm sure the progressive people would like to have more progressive trance at parties.. but you know what.. majority doesn't like "your" music.. and there's really no point in playing unpopular music at parties now is there?
i honestly don't give a crap about genres these days.. imo there's only good music, medium music and bad music.. "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Christian
D-Nox
Started Topics :
55
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321
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 22:41
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traveller from where do you are?
Where I life the majority is totally open for every kind of trance music. The people here never ask for "is this a full on" or "progressive" party.
And you know why the progressive music in northern europe had such a highly-developed? Because the majority of people just enjoy and don`t need hypes.
I like this situation a lot...
peace |
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ND
ProSect
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
919
Posted : Sep 20, 2003 23:30
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why not to split to drug and undrug trancers? 
Without Deviation, Progress Is Not Possible.
www.andivision.com
Sound Field / ProSect / Sonify / Radio Mess |
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