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50 - 100 Tracks a week! :(
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:24
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On 2005-02-13 18:20, sherlockalien wrote:
ok, sorry if I acted rude, but I really dislike being accused of things... no hard feelings =)
for the gigs and mp3s... its the same as the rest of the discussion.. we cant know for sure... I still dont agree when people try to make mp3s the villain and devils of the whole story, when there are MANY other factors involved...
I already gave a few suggestions to labels, and to artists, well, I say stop making formula music, and stop with this ´top 10 killah´ bullshit.. that is also a big factor in all this ego deal about having the latest unreleased killa
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Nope no hard feelings at all  It just made me see I need to write it different so people dont think i accuse them personally .)
I totally agree with you but it's not a one way street. The promoters also have to do their share starting to promote alternative music instead of playing on the safe Horses. And people also have to start open their ears to other kind of music. It's not just up to the artist and Labels alone even though I totally agree that way too many labels and artists should look at themsleves a bit more critical and ask themselves if they actually are cut out to be a label or an artist  But again it also depend highly on if people are willing to listen to anything else than "ganga dunk ganga dunk" running 145 bpm |
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sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
629
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:27
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yes, I agree... actually after the last festival I went to, I was much more into a lot of alternative music than the same old trance tunes
btw, handA, I never heard your music.. any sites with samples (or mp3 unrelease killahs that you could give me hahaha.. kidding) ? |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:32
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HandA, I still don't understand that if you really is so concerned with making music for a living, who don't you do TV jingles and adverts? Pop music?
You said somewhere that you could easily make money doing full-on and get loads of gigs if you did.
If you think that everyone that sit and make just what they like and think is fun have the right to make money from it I must say that you are a bit naive.
Just like in any business, if thats how you approach music making, you have to follow the market.
To make a style of music that is not very popular will make it hard to make money from it.
Thats not new, and has nothing to do with mp3.
Either you sell yourself, or you keep doing what you like without complaining about record sales.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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_Vanessa_
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
235
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:35
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well sherlockalien
I think what brought me to trance was the peace I found, and I am the kind of real person who can't afford to buy cds, and to dowload something I know I will never buy it, I really want to give that respect to the guys who complain oh? It easy when u don't even know who they are. I think a discussion here is no different energy of this same people will bring to parties. And everything is too complex, I don't want to desrespect anyone, so if you know some artist who does not care about people who can't afford dowloading their music, I will be very happy to hear, I will check if it is to do with my taste and I will probably go to see them playing if I get the opportunity. But if everyone is like I am seeing here, sad, but I prefer to go for other music genre, I like to listen to the music that I can go and party afterwards, and I really don't want to cause self desrespect to anyone. So as I know their are some people who is passively understood about mp3s, let me know and I will support them, if there isn't, I can live without something I like, their are too many options in the world, and I really can't bear with such accusations because of dowloads, and I haven't dowload anything for more then a year, but everything that I downloaded and liked I went to their gigs safe I was gonna have a good time.
But if I knew one of them thought was desrespect, I wouldn't have download, so I am really careful now .
peace |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:42
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On 2005-02-13 18:27, sherlockalien wrote:
btw, handA, I never heard your music.. any sites with samples (or mp3 unrelease killahs that you could give me hahaha.. kidding) ?
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http://217.160.136.176/cgi-bin/search.cgi
I was looking for a site with all the disography but I forgot the name of it
I've also just had a track out with Yuli (BLT) on Tribal Vision and more to come on their next compilation under the name Holm&Andersen + a new ambient track (on a compilation) + a full ambient/downbeat CD on Norwegian new label "Chill Tribe" under the name Elysium
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:46
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I think you misunderstand me a lot spindrift. I never said I am doing it for a living! I just would like to see things a bit more fair than they are today. I deeply think artists deserve to be paid for their art and work. I am not saying that all can live from their music.. far from.. I am not that naive. I actually work for IBM
The remark of me making Full On was just to show one I debated with that if I had stayed in the psy/Full On scene and made that music I would properly have had way more gigs today. It was a debate about why I choose to make Progressive House and how less I make from that moneywise because it's very hard to break into a whole new scene when your known for something completely different. It was never about me wanting to make more money or that I am a greedy bastard
You take things out of context that have nothing to do with this debate mate
And if you had paid a bit more attention to my posts, yes I knwo they are many just like yours , You would have noticed that I actually think less people should release their music simply because it's lacking talent... But that's of course my opinion. |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 18:51
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Vanessa I really don't think that it is something that concerns disrespect at all. There was a huge technological change in the world in the last years, and this change affected artists ( of all kinds btw ) a lot, especially those that are not Madonna size, yeah... Because some ppl / artists still regard making music / painting / sculpture etc.. as a full time job, and if it is, then the smaller / underground music makers etc.. found themselves in a sort of a problem since the income from music making wasnt sufficient to live - as simple as that.
Now if u look at it this way obviously it is a little frustrating to know there are some 10000 ppl that own your music but never thought of paying for it. Especially if u need to put your car in a garage and u dont have money to pay the garage, but u need to go to perform in some place tomorrow and u dont know if u will be able to get there...
Some countries ( like Holland I think ) that are in my opinion realy open minded are funding their artists with some help from the state, understanding the fact that art is something very important for ppl. As a music collector u need us to produce the best we can. But if the sales are low and u need to live, one might make a lot of music but without putting too much effort in it, and then the quality goes down.
In all this debate I actually agree with Spindrift that claims that there was change and artists and labels need to understand that there was a change and try to adapt to it. BUT I disapprove the general feeling from certain users here ( ABusers ) that artist is yer own whore and u milk it till he drops, or moves to work in some factory whatever,... see - this is not a really fair way to look at it, and unfortunately many do exactly this.
All must remember that there are 2 figures on the two sides - ARTIST vs. CONSUMER and the relationship between the two is DUAL, not one way feeding as it may feel to many. Only in this way, your favorite artists will be able to continue making music that is interesting and challenging.
Thanks for yer time
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:00
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On 2005-02-13 18:51, Yuli wrote:
Especially if u need to put your car in a garage and u dont have money to pay the garage, but u need to go to perform in some place tomorrow and u dont know if u will be able to get there...
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Hopefully they get paid at the gig
I actually do agree with Yuli and also you Spindrift on many issues... Esoecially about finding new ways... I just think where we dont see eye to eye is on the issue of rights. I think it's every artist right to get paid for his/her work... That is if what he/she does is something people like.
All I say is that people should pay for what they like and keep their hands off the stuff they dont like. is that so wrong of me to think this way? |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:05
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Yo and by the way, all this long thread started from some nice person that said that he downloads heeps of music and all of this music aint worth it and bad quality.
So
First of all I really manage to hear 2 or maximum three albums a week, and since it is my work yeah, I DJ every week and I need nu music that fits my set, I don't think I can seriously listen and pick from more than 3 CD's per week.
This guy there talking about listening to 10!!! CD's per week... comon ppl this is nothing but abusing, there is no way he listened to all this music, and as I previosly said he was listening to break and enter probably which doesnt add a lot of respect to the ppl that wrote the tracks.
Secondly : I know for a fact that many many ppl here in Israel do exactly that. They d/l so much they dont even listen to it. It is like some obsessive mania hehe... I personally never understood it. If u want to d/l do it and go to listen, but those ppl get the satisfaction of HAVING all those unreleased / released music, not from hearing it...
Rings a bell to someone?
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:10
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Ok, HandA a, fair enough, I can understand if your motivation is to stand up for what you think on a theoretical level.
And I think we can agree then that one problem with the financial side of trance music is that it's too many artists and lables that want to make money while there is too small a scene to support them.
Thats just one of the points I wanted to make, and for me that seems to be more of a contributing factor to bad sales then that we now have mp3.
Just one question.
If you disregard the legal stance, what is your feeling morally about people listening to radio.
For many people that is the way to get their dose of music. They are not spending money to give to the artists, at least not directly.
There is of course a system to pay the artists from radio play funded by advertising or tax money, but generally it's only the major stations that provide a list of songs played, and psytrance streams on the internet pay their money to whoever get most airplay on the major stations.
For me anyway thats more annoying and unfair than the fact that people download the music.
Britney actually get paid when one of my tracks get played on an internet stream, in a club or at the hairdresser ( i bet my tracks get played a lot in hairderssing saloons )
Thats stealing for me, when someone actually make money on my work. If there is no money involved and somone is getting something for free but at no cost for me is not something I can define as stealing.
I just think it's great if more artists have a chance to get out there even if they don't make music that fit on mainstream radiostations.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:11
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On 2005-02-13 19:05, Yuli wrote:
I know for a fact that many many ppl here in Israel do exactly that. They d/l so much they dont even listen to it. It is like some obsessive mania hehe...
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Actually that's the same everywhere. Some experts (psychologists) even compare any downloading whatsoever as equal to Ludomania (when you cant stop Gambeling). They claim downloading can be just as addivtive. Now I am not an expert on such psychological matters but somehow it seem likely to me. |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:15
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The human beings are collecting since they can.
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:23
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"And I think we can agree then that one problem with the financial side of trance music is that it's too many artists and lables that want to make money while there is too small a scene to support them.
Thats just one of the points I wanted to make, and for me that seems to be more of a contributing factor to bad sales then that we now have mp3."
I do agree on that and I don't see mp3 as the "Devil" per se. As I said earlier it's a cool tool for promotion in many ways if not abused. I dont claim mp3's are the sole reason to the decrease in sales. Many other factors are of course contributing. Such as the arrival of DVD's, cell phones. ect ect. I am aware of that people's dont have limited resources.
"Just one question.
If you disregard the legal stance, what is your feeling morally about people listening to radio.
For many people that is the way to get their dose of music. They are not spending money to give to the artists, at least not directly."
I think it's ok that people listen to the Radio. It's a well proven tool for promotion. And we actually get a little out of it finacially.. Not much but a little and that's cool with me. Then we can debate if it's serving it's purpose to support the small artists these days
But the Radio is properly the no. 1 promotion tool (after video's - but we dont use videos..) that actually still contribute to CD sales but of course also to downloading. Nothing is perfect.
And yes I agree the Broadcast payment system is not fair at all. But here we actually have some sort of saying as artists. We can do whatever we can to change the unfair system via our organisations. I am a member of danish KODA and have every right to go to their meetings and speak my mind. It have actually changed things in the past... And I can also go to my Governemt and try to change things.. That have also changed laws in Denmark in the past when artists complained. It's actually much more easy than to try and convince hard-core downloaders
Now I dont think it's Britneys intention to steal your money She did not invent that system and is properly not even aware of how it work.
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:31
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btw I asked for some suggestions to how to improve the situation for all parts. I haven't seen many
A part from Spindrift who think that less quantity and more quality is a way forward. Which I 100% agree with even though I doubt it's change much.
I honestly admit I don't have a clue to what would improve the situation.
So any one with some ideas that actually would make a difference? |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 13, 2005 19:38
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What difference do u want to archive?
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