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YOU CAN MAKE PSYTRANCE BIGGER !!!!!!!!!!
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 03:32
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Oh yeah and before the obvious:
'How can you give an example of Led Zep and Pixies, and compare those ARTISTS to the full on trance copy cats, and cut and paste bands etc.. etc.. etc..'
I cannot.
And I dont refer to these at all.
But I will refer to the likes of IM or Astrix for instance, surely not in the same level but the idea is clear. Both are very very talented acts, in many levels of music making, if it is in arrangement, or it is in musical talent, or it is in technical abilities of creating powerful sound and high quality audio trickery. Especially in the case of Astrix, they would get much more respect than they get now if they wouldnt be copied by heeps of new acts emerging on this scene every day. Now think about it - where is their fault in this? Is it in the fact that they wrote a tune that so many ppl liked a lot?
I raise those questions to show that not everything is black and white.. Actually most of the things are grey nowadays - that is why ideals and pure feelings tend to fade away
  A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 05:32
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@Talamasca
Ah, you replied  How positive
Quote Talamasca
"no,my goal is diferent....my goal is to not be arrested by the police when i go to play in some countries, my goal is that what happened in the party in tcheque republic or in the US during this summer never happen again ( the police who "kicks" the people who came to trance parties), my goal is to not be suspected as a drug dealer everytime i say the world "psytrance"...and i have many other exemples like this who are not related to fame and money...don't missunderstand me please...."
Well, these are some of our goals as well - We cant 100% achieve them, after all, we do not live in a perfect world.
However, its not a matter of the publics respect for our music, its a matter of their respect for our culture..
Real respect is earned... What do we do to earn the respect of the world ? Will we earn it by being bigger, or by leaving a real positive impression on the world ?
Some of the things you mention are really a matter of improving our scene, bettering it. Organizers who are more professional, crowds who will respect nature and each other more + the rest of the people we have to get along with (this includes local authorities).
We can do this by supporting those we know work seriously at improving our culture. In the end, their work will pay off.
We do not do it by making the scene grow thru an injection of the mainstream audience, since we cannot educate a lot of newcomers as to what Psyculture is all about, and then THEY will end up being the face the world judges us upon! (this happened BIG TIME, here in Denmark).
Quote Talamasca
"I've spent the last 12 years almost every week end in parties, so please, don't ask me if it matters a lot to me...this is my life...."
Ok, what I was talking about was the dangers of our scene becoming more commercial than it already is. I recognize that it is your LIFE (I do know who you are btw, so I knew that much) - so, then you must be aware of these dangers... keep them in mind
Or else, perhaps, you wont be happy with your life some point in the future.. (this sounds almost as a threat, but its a mere fact, if PsyCulture is your life, and it effectively dies, too bad for you then I guess).
Quote Talamasca
"you say : "Perhaps being a psytrance artist should not be a full time job"...and you are right, it is not ! it takes me much more time than a normal job !"
Like you say, its your life - For many of the rest of us Psy Culture is at least a big part of our lives also. We have not walked a mile in your shoes, we wouldnt know - But, we do know that you can produce music, and work jobs at the same time. To me, that sounds like less of a tradeoff than putting everything into the music, while having to sacrifice on the culture itself. (that is, going totally main stream).
Now, you said already - That was not your intent - However, to some, that was how it was perceived That was how I perceived it.
Quote Talamasca
"i understand your point of view....but i am sure you understand also mine....and forget about the money, I've never complained about it, i've said that little labels are dying,i explained why, and that if only the "commercial" labels are staying because of the "underground attitude", then , what we don't want will happen..."
What we dont want has already happened many places around the world. Psytrance went mainstream already in 1995/96 as I see it. What we do now, is just damage control. People bitching about cheesy full on, thats damage control. Still, its really walking a fine like when doing that, since people should just create their own better music instead of bitching about others... So, what we bitch about is the general tendencies towards music that will open the door up to mainstream further, basicly flooding our culture with non believers, or what you want to call them (unaware people).
This is what its about, putting your foot in front of the door - This far, no further. Not to isolate Psyculture - NO, but to preserve the foundation that its built on. This is not one big cult thing, its a tribal thing.
I appreciate what you were trying to do and I understand it. My reaction to it is - thats not the way to go about it.
PsyCulture will have to take care of itself, and take responsibility for its own existence in ways that will earn it real respect.
Our culture does not need the approval of the rest of the world - We will, if we have to, get by without it.
Music, Art, Performances, Lifestyle - Festivals & Events creating amazing unforgettable experiences for people, experiences no one can deny - Thats what will justify our existence, and in the long run earn us the respect and admiration of society as a whole, but only if we stay true to our ideals and values. Since its those ideals and values that create the vibes which are the the blood of our culture.
This is just the way I see it Psytrance has gone mainstream, its a done deal (but then again, is it still part of the PsyCulture when its SO commercial, or just some cheap rip off?).
PsyCulture can get by without having to be commercial, but I think a bit of commercialism is OK - but what some artists are doing (CD covers with pictures of them, trying to become idols) and so forth reeks of vomit.
This is not an artist thing only, its also a party organizer thing - Booking acts for the sake of their names, and not the music.... Then, its too big. (it touches everybody I think).
Question is - Do you need Talamasca high on that list ? And what will the end effect be ? Does it really get you any closer to the things you mentioned you wanted ?
Again, its not like we have our picks between people wanting to do more documentarys on our culture - Respect to those who create something like http://www.liquidcrystalvision.com/ which you can show people to get them interested in our culture and attract them from that more informative angle.
From the original post
Quote Talamasca
"If you were once tired to ear that house or euro-trance was the biggest style of electronic music, this is your chance to revenge... "
I dont think we can compare the psy scene as a whole to house for instance. We have PLENTY of house music within our scene (or at least, very house inspired music) - Which is OK. What we also have are artists who create all kinds of art to go with the music and our culture.. We are a culture, and not a music genre. Its how this culture comes together that makes it special, and not how high we can climb in the charts.
Of course, labels, artists and partyorganizers have a MUCH easier time measuring success in numbers - but beware, they are nothing but statistics, and are often misinterpreted!
Its not an "us & them" situation. Why cares what the "biggest" style is? We listen to what we love, others do the same. We will not earn respect from being bigger, but only from being better thru creativity & positive energies:-) <- Yes, I said positive energies, and Im NOT a hippie ;-)
I hope, these perspectives give birth to some of this positive energy - If not, I just wasted a few hours of my life writing long rants on isratrance again
For me, it has been a positive experience to see Mr Talamasca take part in this discussion, and not just disregard it, not caring. Too many "names" do that, they simply do not bother - This is part of the "star mentality" HandA spoke of - or at least it is to me it is.
More Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 11:22
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@krell
I'm sorry but this pretentious thread has obliged me to respond. I'll will probably be modded as flamebait but I have to shed another opinion, one who I believe is as valid as every other.
When I was going to goa parties back in 96, not that long ago but not yesterday, I can remember that as a young 16 year old who grew up on tangerine dream/brian eno/skinny puppy I was very much attracted by the music since it seemed to push the boundaries of aural landscapes. However, I remember that being a non-drug user and not wearing the latest space tribe fluoro alien gear, not passing chillums and not saying 'bom' every time someone looked at me, well I guess those people never really opened up to me.
I'll be more blunt: your so called psytrance CULTURE (I would rather call it a CULT) is one of the most closed minded, neo-hippy credit card carrying elitist electronic music culture I've ever immersed myself into.
YOU are the problem with the psytrance movement today. Who are you to judge who may participate in YOUR culture, listen to YOUR music? People like cedric want to try to make a living off what they do, and I'm sure they barely brake even (un SMIC?) with the current state of affairs. Why can't they? Is it not allowed to commit oneself personally and professionally in such a nobile endeavor?
You say
"If its all about entering collective trances, creating tribes and increasing our awareness of our planet and each other, then we need a scene where these things are in focus - and not nescessarily the artists themselves."
Well I retort that although I agree that one should respect and preserve our planet and others, why does music have to do with any of it? I'm a psytrance atheist, and although I'm interested in various anthropological topics, I don't want to be part of a TRIBE/CULT/SECT who delude themselves into thinking they are a chosen few whos music must remain secret to the masses. Please, kung-fu didn't wither when bruce lee taught it to the popular class in san francisco? Are you some psy trance conservatist?
You say
"Stop thinking that much about money - you should be happy to work for free, and just enjoy the respect and the vibes that go with your role/status.
If you do not like it, do not do it. Plenty of people just invest in the psyscene because it makes them feel good....
If you are able to get all this respect, and great experiences for free - that in the end should be reward enough should it not ? Your role in this culture is the role of the shaman, very important, a guide and healer you could say. You have to ask yourself, do you really want to make psytrance more commercial? Because that is where you are headed!"
What kind of commie bullcrap is that? Why should cedric work for free so that YOU can enjoy the fruits of his labor? This thought process is what makes me sick about psytrance today, this deification of the artists by giving them the role of shaman/healer/god and having the audience be some kind of chosen people (no pun intended). Cedric, I truly respect your music and your presence on scene, but I know you are only human, who needs to eat and sleep like everyone (actually as you said you are a vampire who sucks the energy from the crowd by making incredible dance music )
Cedric isn't putting posters of his face in the metros of paris promoting his music. He is trying to reach a larger audience, how does that conflict with psytrance "culture"? I happen to enjoy talking to different people in parties who aren't self anointed psy trance guardians such as yourself.
Krell, do you know what laicity means? It means that I want to listen to my psy trance without having this bullcrap like "active meditation" and "spiritual healing" shoved down my throat.
I'll end on one note. I've been to many psytrance parties as a passive observer and one who enjoys the music greatly. However out of all the parties, I have to say that Japan has the nicest crowd, best vibe, the most open minded listeners I've ever had the pleasure of sharing the dancefloor with. These are people who would go to a psytrance party and then the next day go to a snoop dog concert and then the following to a dark ambient festival (holeg spies). Now I think it's wishful thinking to believe that we in europe can achieve that level of understanding of psytrance culture, which is nothing more than acceptance and tolerance.
Why don't you go to canada and join RAEL, you both have the same rhetoric..
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uvego
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
432
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 13:38
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its all about money $$$$$
not about trance growing
you need money growing
or if you thing that you are trance papa, thats another story, but you are not, Infected are on first place
thats it my frend
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 14:13
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@ neuromantik
In order to take you serious I suggest you moderate your language a bit.
Anyway thank you for ruining a balanced and polite debate. I guess it was just a matter of time before someone couldn't control himself and had to use angry rhetoric. |
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Dainty Doll
June Rashava
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
426
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 15:25
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Somehow this discussion is no diffrent from "what happend to trance" "why is the scene so crap" "the artists are bad" and so on.
Its hilarious it can go on like this instead of apriciate what you have at the moment.
My personal opinion about making the scene bigger, fair enough, i don't mind, but shouldten we get bigger places for the aprties also then?
I mean the big parties is in big places, but not big enough. Room for 2000 there will be 2500!
Everything hsa too fit togethre. Think about everything, dont just concentrade on 1, pls.!
http://crackwhoremodels.dk/dainty_doll.html
www.myspace.com/djdaintydoll
www.myspace.com/junerashava |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 16:26
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-06 13:38, uvego wrote:
or if you thing that you are trance papa, thats another story, but you are not, Infected are on first place
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tsk tsk.
I am done with this debate. It's obvious where it's going now. |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 20:04
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@Neuromantik
Dont be sorry, I dont mind you being sceptical, or you having another opinion and vision of this culture & music than I do. After all, I would be a hypocrite if that really offended me.
It might surprise you, but I had the exact same experiences as yourself at exactly the same age and with the same stereotypes you describe.
Quote Neuromantik
"your so called psytrance CULTURE (I would rather call it a CULT) is one of the most closed minded, neo-hippy credit card carrying elitist electronic music culture"
That is because you have labelled ME with the stereotype of those people who would not let you inside their little elitist core when you where younger. However, when you think of it, are they REALLY the people I was talking about ? I mean, is shutting a 16 your old newcomer out of their "tribe" something you do when you live by those values and ideals I mentioned? The answer is no. Your stereotype does not apply to me.
If people like Cedric can make a living by what they do, then its fine for everybody - However, if the music is made for profit in such a way that they sacrifice creating music for the mind - well then for me its not ok. If you go for the money effect in music, instead of the mental effect, then yes, its a problem.
Making money is not a noble endeavour. Wasting your talent within music creation to create whatever satisfies the masses is not ok (not for me) - and yes, I dont think it should be ok for other people either - but they can make up their own minds... I dont mind that they do We can always, discuss it :-P
Quote Neuromantik
"why does music have to do with any of it? I'm a psytrance atheist, and although I'm interested in various anthropological topics, I don't want to be part of a TRIBE/CULT/SECT who delude themselves into thinking they are a chosen few whos music must remain secret to the masses."
You ask what does music has to do with that ? Well - If you see it like I do, they are values which go hand in hand. When I see the scene going more commercial, I see these values becoming less important in favour of whatever is more commercially viable - PsyCulture is for me also about increasing awareness of your surroundings in general. How can music do that ?
Well, it can increase your awareness of yourself, and others thru trance & collective consciousness - This will increase your awareness of your surroundings in general.
Dancing at a party, and taking part in this collective ritual - Feeling the vibe you create along with others instills empathy in people, which in turn stimulates other aspects of their lives - understanding needs that go beyond oneself.
For me, you are a part of this TRIBE whether you want to or not - Because, its very metaphoricly speaking just the scene wherein people who listen to psytrance reside... After all, we do have some things in common.
You can fuck up a culture (or subculture if that is less pretentious for you) so much, that its fucked up beyond all recognition. Whether you want to accept it or not, PsySubCulture has its own values and ideals which are inspired from the people who created the scene, hippies - Just like society as a whole has its ideals also, often inspired by commercials.
For me, its important that this subculture of ours continues to develop and exist, to be honest with you, because I dont like what I see beyond this the Psyculture much. I try to create a place for myself to be, where I will feel at home.
Quote Neuromantik
"What kind of commie bullcrap is that?"
If you have a hobby, and you love what you do - Then you wont have to make money of what you do in order to earn rewards for yourself - I dont call that "bullcrap" I call that common sense.
Quote Neuromantik
"Why should cedric work for free so that YOU can enjoy the fruits of his labor?"
If his music & label is the basis if his income, well then thats where he needs to earn his money - However, if he has to release overly cheesy music into the market in order to accomplish that, he sold out. Simple as that. (and this goes for all labels & artists). I believe Talamasca already agreed on this.
Instead of selling out, I suggest one get a second job, and stop relying on PsyCulture for ones full time job - Thats all, and it makes perfect sense to me still. I am not saying someone cannot have a full time job within Psyculture, Im saying they shouldnt if it means selling out, sacrificing quality for money/quantity.
Quote Neuromantik
"This thought process is what makes me sick about psytrance today, this deification of the artists by giving them the role of shaman/healer/god and having the audience be some kind of chosen people (no pun intended)."
I agree, but, this is still metaphoricly speaking. I dont see artists as gods, however, I do hold a lot of respect for them (even though you might think otherwise because I dare voice my opinion on them so strongly). This is what is also unique in PsyCulture, less room between artists and the crowd.
The only guardians of psytrance you will see are self anointed ones - So, instead of implying that I took or stole authority in order to seem important and tell everybody what is ok and what is not realize, that I see myself as part of a culture for a long time now, and as such I take an interest in what makes it work, and what will potentially improve it or perhaps damage it - Its called "taking responsibility".
I explained already why promoting psytrance in mainstream channels can kill the vibe and damage the scene, culture, tribe, cult, sect or whatever words you would put on it. I will do some explaining again - if you let in a lot of people from the mainstream scene without explaining things to them like the following.
- Take care of nature
- Treat everybody with respect
- Be openminded
- Be relaxed
- Understand the music, understand that its a journey.
- You are a part of a culture, and not just here to consume - add something positive & creative yourself.
- etc
then you will get a crowd which does not really understand the different aspects of what is going on at parties and why. Its basicly some characteristics of behavior that will ensure that our tribal gatherings work well
Perhaps you do not feel like a part of any psyculture - I understand that - but understand that for some people you are, whether you like to be or not. Understand - Just because you do not believe in something, it is still reality for many people - As such, we have a right to point out whatever we feel are in conflict with our culture.
If people SHARE our goals, they will want to listen to what we have to say - if they dont, well, then they will have to do whatever they do knowing we disapprove :-P Thats it.
We do not have the right to tell other people how to lead their lives or how to act - but we are free to inspire them. Its every man for himself. No one is forcing us to go to parties we dont want to either!
Quote Neuromantik
"Krell, do you know what laicity means? It means that I want to listen to my psy trance without having this bullcrap like "active meditation" and "spiritual healing" shoved down my throat."
Well, dont then - Im not making you dig into anything you dont want to, it is really your loss as far as Im concerned. (NOTE this very carefully in your mind, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AND YOU ARE STILL A PART OF WHAT I CALL PSYCULTURE). So, in other words, Im not shutting you out of what you dont want to be a part of You choose to be a part of the subculture yourself, your choice... <- Im not in control of it, you are.
However, like I said, the list goes on and on and on. Im not saying everybody should run around believing and doing everything that some, to use your words, self anointed guardian of psytrance, tells them to - but they can at least give it some thought, dismiss what doesnt appeal to them, and integrate what does into their lives... at least get a fundemental understanding of the philosphy behind it.
Understand, many of the things I talk about, they are metaphors - so before you decide to shoot them down, be sure you understand what they are. Do you ? Because if you do not, perhaps you should take more interest in trying to understand what they are and what they effectively represent. It is all very easy and convenient to use in a tribal context, but, all this is beyond the scope of this subject to discuss.
Quote Neuromantik
"Why don't you go to canada and join RAEL, you both have the same rhetoric.."
Everybody has their rhetoric. You have yours as well. You are not going to turn this into a flame war, I dont mind you being strongly against what I represent - I think however, you are too fast to pass judgement on me, considering you have just labelled me as "Neo Conservatist Fluoro Hippie with the rank of Self Anointed Guardian of Psytrance". (I think I will add that to my resume actually!). You base your argument on stereotypes, thats a weak base to build on.
The truth of my views and who I am, is a bit more complex than me being a hippie conservatist I have, for a long time, held the same views as you (of course now I evolved, and Im far better than you <- just kidding)
I have come to believe in and understand many of the ideals and values within PsyCulture. This happened after interpreting the old cliché goa gil style hippie metaphors, which for me were revealed to be only logical thinking as to what will create a healthy and positive scene for people to reside and evolve in freely.
Thanks for the different perspective
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Zimon Post Forced
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
157
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 20:50
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Ill probably get an offtopic stamp for this, but ill say it anyway 
Bla, bla, bla, bla..... trance, awarness, nature, respect, openmind, journey, etc.....
It's all dead, there is no point continuing to strugle for it.
It reminds me a lot of what hiphop used to be in the 70's a culture a state of mind, a way of life.
And now its only, money, bitches, big cars.
I hope that in 30years it wont be the same with trance, but honestly like "the man" said it self, nothing lasts, but nothing is lost. |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 21:36
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-06 20:04, Krell wrote:
@Neuromantik
Dont be sorry, I dont mind you being sceptical, or you having another opinion and vision of this culture & music than I do. After all, I would be a hypocrite if that really offended me.
It might surprise you, but I had the exact same experiences as yourself at exactly the same age and with the same stereotypes you describe.
Quote Neuromantik
"your so called psytrance CULTURE (I would rather call it a CULT) is one of the most closed minded, neo-hippy credit card carrying elitist electronic music culture"
That is because you have labelled ME with the stereotype of those people who would not let you inside their little elitist core when you where younger. However, when you think of it, are they REALLY the people I was talking about ? I mean, is shutting a 16 your old newcomer out of their "tribe" something you do when you live by those values and ideals I mentioned? The answer is no. Your stereotype does not apply to me.
If people like Cedric can make a living by what they do, then its fine for everybody - However, if the music is made for profit in such a way that they sacrifice creating music for the mind - well then for me its not ok. If you go for the money effect in music, instead of the mental effect, then yes, its a problem.
Making money is not a noble endeavour. Wasting your talent within music creation to create whatever satisfies the masses is not ok (not for me) - and yes, I dont think it should be ok for other people either - but they can make up their own minds... I dont mind that they do We can always, discuss it :-P
Quote Neuromantik
"why does music have to do with any of it? I'm a psytrance atheist, and although I'm interested in various anthropological topics, I don't want to be part of a TRIBE/CULT/SECT who delude themselves into thinking they are a chosen few whos music must remain secret to the masses."
You ask what does music has to do with that ? Well - If you see it like I do, they are values which go hand in hand. When I see the scene going more commercial, I see these values becoming less important in favour of whatever is more commercially viable - PsyCulture is for me also about increasing awareness of your surroundings in general. How can music do that ?
Well, it can increase your awareness of yourself, and others thru trance & collective consciousness - This will increase your awareness of your surroundings in general.
Dancing at a party, and taking part in this collective ritual - Feeling the vibe you create along with others instills empathy in people, which in turn stimulates other aspects of their lives - understanding needs that go beyond oneself.
For me, you are a part of this TRIBE whether you want to or not - Because, its very metaphoricly speaking just the scene wherein people who listen to psytrance reside... After all, we do have some things in common.
You can fuck up a culture (or subculture if that is less pretentious for you) so much, that its fucked up beyond all recognition. Whether you want to accept it or not, PsySubCulture has its own values and ideals which are inspired from the people who created the scene, hippies - Just like society as a whole has its ideals also, often inspired by commercials.
For me, its important that this subculture of ours continues to develop and exist, to be honest with you, because I dont like what I see beyond this the Psyculture much. I try to create a place for myself to be, where I will feel at home.
Quote Neuromantik
"What kind of commie bullcrap is that?"
If you have a hobby, and you love what you do - Then you wont have to make money of what you do in order to earn rewards for yourself - I dont call that "bullcrap" I call that common sense.
Quote Neuromantik
"Why should cedric work for free so that YOU can enjoy the fruits of his labor?"
If his music & label is the basis if his income, well then thats where he needs to earn his money - However, if he has to release overly cheesy music into the market in order to accomplish that, he sold out. Simple as that. (and this goes for all labels & artists). I believe Talamasca already agreed on this.
Instead of selling out, I suggest one get a second job, and stop relying on PsyCulture for ones full time job - Thats all, and it makes perfect sense to me still. I am not saying someone cannot have a full time job within Psyculture, Im saying they shouldnt if it means selling out, sacrificing quality for money/quantity.
Quote Neuromantik
"This thought process is what makes me sick about psytrance today, this deification of the artists by giving them the role of shaman/healer/god and having the audience be some kind of chosen people (no pun intended)."
I agree, but, this is still metaphoricly speaking. I dont see artists as gods, however, I do hold a lot of respect for them (even though you might think otherwise because I dare voice my opinion on them so strongly). This is what is also unique in PsyCulture, less room between artists and the crowd.
The only guardians of psytrance you will see are self anointed ones - So, instead of implying that I took or stole authority in order to seem important and tell everybody what is ok and what is not realize, that I see myself as part of a culture for a long time now, and as such I take an interest in what makes it work, and what will potentially improve it or perhaps damage it - Its called "taking responsibility".
I explained already why promoting psytrance in mainstream channels can kill the vibe and damage the scene, culture, tribe, cult, sect or whatever words you would put on it. I will do some explaining again - if you let in a lot of people from the mainstream scene without explaining things to them like the following.
- Take care of nature
- Treat everybody with respect
- Be openminded
- Be relaxed
- Understand the music, understand that its a journey.
- You are a part of a culture, and not just here to consume - add something positive & creative yourself.
- etc
then you will get a crowd which does not really understand the different aspects of what is going on at parties and why. Its basicly some characteristics of behavior that will ensure that our tribal gatherings work well
Perhaps you do not feel like a part of any psyculture - I understand that - but understand that for some people you are, whether you like to be or not. Understand - Just because you do not believe in something, it is still reality for many people - As such, we have a right to point out whatever we feel are in conflict with our culture.
If people SHARE our goals, they will want to listen to what we have to say - if they dont, well, then they will have to do whatever they do knowing we disapprove :-P Thats it.
We do not have the right to tell other people how to lead their lives or how to act - but we are free to inspire them. Its every man for himself. No one is forcing us to go to parties we dont want to either!
Quote Neuromantik
"Krell, do you know what laicity means? It means that I want to listen to my psy trance without having this bullcrap like "active meditation" and "spiritual healing" shoved down my throat."
Well, dont then - Im not making you dig into anything you dont want to, it is really your loss as far as Im concerned. (NOTE this very carefully in your mind, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT AND YOU ARE STILL A PART OF WHAT I CALL PSYCULTURE). So, in other words, Im not shutting you out of what you dont want to be a part of You choose to be a part of the subculture yourself, your choice... <- Im not in control of it, you are.
However, like I said, the list goes on and on and on. Im not saying everybody should run around believing and doing everything that some, to use your words, self anointed guardian of psytrance, tells them to - but they can at least give it some thought, dismiss what doesnt appeal to them, and integrate what does into their lives... at least get a fundemental understanding of the philosphy behind it.
Understand, many of the things I talk about, they are metaphors - so before you decide to shoot them down, be sure you understand what they are. Do you ? Because if you do not, perhaps you should take more interest in trying to understand what they are and what they effectively represent. It is all very easy and convenient to use in a tribal context, but, all this is beyond the scope of this subject to discuss.
Quote Neuromantik
"Why don't you go to canada and join RAEL, you both have the same rhetoric.."
Everybody has their rhetoric. You have yours as well. You are not going to turn this into a flame war, I dont mind you being strongly against what I represent - I think however, you are too fast to pass judgement on me, considering you have just labelled me as "Neo Conservatist Fluoro Hippie with the rank of Self Anointed Guardian of Psytrance". (I think I will add that to my resume actually!). You base your argument on stereotypes, thats a weak base to build on.
The truth of my views and who I am, is a bit more complex than me being a hippie conservatist I have, for a long time, held the same views as you (of course now I evolved, and Im far better than you <- just kidding)
I have come to believe in and understand many of the ideals and values within PsyCulture. This happened after interpreting the old cliché goa gil style hippie metaphors, which for me were revealed to be only logical thinking as to what will create a healthy and positive scene for people to reside and evolve in freely.
Thanks for the different perspective
Krell
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Great post Krell... I agree with everything...
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 21:44
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@Zimon Post Forced
Its not like that everywhere - and the scene is virutally what you make it.
I mean...
Theres the scene, and theres the scene around you.
You can influence what is around you very much - So even though it might end up being crappy overall - You yourself are still an important influence on whats around you.
However, Im not here to give you a pep talk, by all means accept the state of things if you want, if things are so hopeless where you are at and you are incapable of improving it, you have my condolences.
Unless you are just one of those people who do not care, who come to consume whatever positive energy there is and then leave.
For my part, I dont mind a scene around me of just 20 people who value vibes, music and so forth.
if " trance, awarness, nature, respect, openmind, journey" is all gone, then I fear for the future of mankind I dont think its gone though, and I dont think its going anywhere either
Im actually quite optimistic about the future
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 21:52
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On 2005-09-06 16:26, HandA wrote:
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On 2005-09-06 13:38, uvego wrote:
or if you thing that you are trance papa, thats another story, but you are not, Infected are on first place
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tsk tsk.
I am done with this debate. It's obvious where it's going now.
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LoL - That was your cue huh ?
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
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8646
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 22:54
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On 2005-09-06 20:50, Zimon Post Forced wrote:
It reminds me a lot of what hiphop used to be in the 70's a culture a state of mind, a way of life.
And now its only, money, bitches, big cars.
I hope that in 30years it wont be the same with trance, but honestly like "the man" said it self, nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.
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Hip hop movement started in the 80's but you've got a point. Although you are not entirely right. There is hip hop underground that raises social problems and not only bitches and money issues.
But that's offtopic, right? 
And Bom to Yuli
Another point to add to his words:
Pink Floyd's Dark side of the moon is considered to be the pinnacle of the pop culture in the 70's although it was sold in enormous amounts. Pink Floyd remained interesting for many years to come and released amazing music that wasn't greatly influenced by what was popular at that time. Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Alternative control
Alternative Control
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
305
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 23:27
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I took Ced advice few months ago... going nice...just the point is to vote fair and not for some ppl we never heard about..and nobody doesnt know...
And in the future we will only have +++ from this to the scene and to the music.. |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 23:53
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On 2005-09-06 21:52, Krell wrote:
LoL - That was your cue huh ?
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Yes when people start to say that Infected (and other obvious names) are the true pioneers ect. etc. then it's time for me to stop debating or I'll end up using not so nice words haha Some people really should learn a little about our scene's history before they proclame such things based on very little knowledge about our scene's past  |
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