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YOU CAN MAKE PSYTRANCE BIGGER !!!!!!!!!!
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MissRobin
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
86
Posts :
144
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 05:57
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On 2005-09-05 00:59, DETOX wrote:
I still insist that the mastering and cover design expenses rarely go over 1000 euros and i am talking about very good and profesional stuff not just a fake mastering and a bad cover design,i think by the way that we use the same mastering engineer (Space Cat) who is great on his job like we both know. |
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Space Cat does indeed do nice mastering!!! But I have become a complete believer that spending that little bit more almost always pays off. Weve just finished mastering the S>Range and Tron albums and the sound we got back was as clear as Ive heard! Ive put it next to many big labels releases and been well impressed.
We use Kevin Metcalfe (TIP, Twisted, Orbital, U2.. and the diverse list goes on) but with this guy you also know it will be closer to 2000euro.
xx
Robin
  TRISKELE MANAGEMENT
Total Artist Management
Label Marketing, Promotions & PR
www.triskelemanagement.com |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 09:43
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On 2005-09-02 13:21, talamasca wrote:
HELLO THERE,
Here is maybe for some of you a strange topic, but i recently discovered a quite famous website who rank dj's and artists of all kind of electronic together...
If all the people who listen psytrance would vote for their favorite artists, it would make from our kind of music something more respected....
I know this is not a very "underground" idea, but this might be the best way to finally have some radio shows of psytrance music all over the world !!!
If you were once tired to ear that house or euro-trance was the biggest style of electronic music, this is your chance to revenge...
So every month, you can vote for your 10 favorite artists...only one vote per month is allowed (you have to register...)which is to be more "fair"...
Now, the 5 first psytrance artists in this list are :
INFECTED MUSHROOMS
SKAZI
ASTRIX
GMS
TALAMASCA
here is the adress of the site :
http://www.thedjlist.com
thanks for your support !:d
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Did you totally loose your sense of where our scene come from and where you came from? Damn mate you surely have gone 100% commercial.. a shame 
And why all this bitching about House and revenge? Isen't it time to stop all this jealousy against other scenes and just concentrate to get our own scene back on the right track away from commercial supermarket music, Candy raves and back to the essense = quality! AND MOST IMPORTANT:
Back to the roots of what trance really is.
For those who don't know what the word trance mean. Look it up
The 5 artists you have listed are yes very big "stars".. But you know as well as I that "stars" do not belong in our scene. I have always liked you as a person mate (as far back when you came to visit us at Stavros place in London with your first ever made track) but damn you and some of the other "oldies" surely have sold out to the dollar signs and fluffy candy boots. And if you meet me again someday I will say the same to your face(s). You guys had a responsibility among the other oldies to show the newcommers the right way but instead you too jumped on the bandwagon of Full On and Mega raves. That goes to you and for sure GMS in that list (and many other names for that matter). IM, Skazi and Astrix came way later and really got no clue whatsoever what the scene was all about before they arrived.
Now I am sure I wil get many hate mails for this.. But I like to be straight to the point and true to my roots and this scene's roots. Call me old and grumpy.. At least I say what I think instead of doing the easiest thing. Jumping on the bandwagon or hiding because your afraid of confrontations in this forum.
I want to add that in order to gain respect you need to be unique and have your own sound. 99.5% of the Full On scene's music is copy & paste.. How would that ever gain any respect? On top of that are trance musicians really that talented? (is Full On actually trance at all?)
I guess that question is something they have to ask themself. Or maybe they should try for one day to make something experimental and see if their "talents" is enough
I do not say that other genres dont have bad music too. It surely do but let's face it. When we talk about the scene today it's very hard not to avoid talking about Full on or Neo Full on etc. Simply because those genres are the biggest genres. But that does not make it more or less quality. If the size of an Audience = quality then we would see a lot of popular supermarket music on the top of the quality ladder
My 2 (or 10) cents of rant. |
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Wizdumb
Tripinstumble
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
170
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 11:10
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[quote]
On 2005-09-05 09:43, HandA wrote:
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I want to add that in order to gain respect you need to be unique and have your own sound. 99.5% of the Full On scene's music is copy & paste.. How would that ever gain any respect? On top of that are trance musicians really that talented? (is Full On actually trance at all?)
I guess that question is something they have to ask themself. Or maybe they should try for one day to make something experimental and see if their "talents" is enough
I do not say that other genres dont have bad music too. It surely do but let's face it. When we talk about the scene today it's very hard not to avoid talking about Full on or Neo Full on etc. Simply because those genres are the biggest genres. But that does not make it more or less quality. If the size of an Audience = quality then we would see a lot of popular supermarket music on the top of the quality ladder
My 2 (or 10) cents of rant.
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Amen to that,pretty well put , Handa.
and since when did bigger =better, anyways ?? |
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talamasca
Talamasca
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
180
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 14:38
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detox......i think we are a bit more than 20 000 people to listen trance in the world, come on...
Handa, i know exactly what you mean...and believe it or not, i agree....except in few points....first, we are not "stars"...we are just the ones who make the people dance the most nowadays...as you mentionned, GMS and me are coming from a time where trance dj's were against the "star-system" of techno dj's.....so i know this feeling too ...but, (there is always a but...)in some countries like mexico , Japan or some others (mostly outside Europe) this is not the idea...the received trance as any other electronic music....so of course this djlist will not change anything in England ! But in some countries like U.S, it would.....
Now, believe me, it is not really a question of "revenge" against house or other kinds...it is more to put ourselves in the same level....when you fight for yourself, it is not necessary against the others....
I hope you will take it in the good way, and that we will continue this discussion...but handa, please answer the question : if the music doesn't change its spirit, if artists don't change their taste, but if the music is more promoted in the media, is it more "commercial" for you ??? and if yes, as long as the music doesn't change, why is it bad ??? |
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Enzio
Mad Hatters
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
70
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 14:43
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Hey Cedric mate,
I Super-Agree with u,
good vibes
See u in Matrix
Enzio@MAD HATTERS <<WIRED MUSIC/Crash Management>> |
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chong
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
227
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 14:56
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
Now, believe me, it is not really a question of "revenge" against house or other kinds...it is more to put ourselves in the same level....
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then the 1st thing to do if u wanna reach the same level, is to try to reach the same level of quality ... wich is still miles and miles away from our poor trance scene... |
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chong
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
227
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 14:58
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
as long as the music doesn't change, why is it bad ???
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simple: because there is no more creativity and music becomes based on formulas wich is in total opposition with the definition of art... like in 99% of full on music |
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 15:16
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
first, we are not "stars"...we are just the ones who make the people dance the most nowadays...
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Sorry but I see a not so nice "Star" attitude in many of the oldies (and new artists for that matter) while being on stage and off stage. I am not trying to insult anyone here but some of the oldies should take a long good look at how they behave.
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
in some countries like mexico , Japan or some others (mostly outside Europe) this is not the idea...the received trance as any other electronic music....
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Well that's just to run away from all responsibility mate. If the old ones that know how the scene used to be like would have bothered to educate these new countries (especially Brazil and Mexico) and indeed the new artists and the people on the floor then things might have turned out a litte different
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
Now, believe me, it is not really a question of "revenge" against house or other kinds...it is more to put ourselves in the same level....when you fight for yourself, it is not necessary against the others....
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First i think we need to clean up in our own scene and kick out all the drug dealers and the many artists, promoters and labels that promote drugs to all the kids and then we should try to create a scene with a bit more individuality, quality and much less quantity..And NO copy & paste music thank you.
Then maybe we would gain more respect. A scene where almost 80% (if not more) think it's cool to run around and flash their drugs in public will never gain any respect. Surely not when there's so many "stars" that also think it's their life mission to get more kids hooked on drugs.
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
I hope you will take it in the good way, and that we will continue this discussion...
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Of course I take it in a good way. My mission is to kick the many "stars" off their pedistals and make them understand that they have sold out and in many ways participated in ruining the scene or at least created it a scene where there's no vision or to be honest much of a future.
It's a hard mission but one I burn passionated about.
So yes communication between us the oldies is good. Hopefully those with too many dollar signs in their eyes will understand what some of us are saying. Because there will be quite a few oldies (and some new ones too) that still keep connected to this scenes roots that will speak out loud and clear soon.
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On 2005-09-05 14:38, talamasca wrote:
but handa, please answer the question : if the music doesn't change its spirit, if artists don't change their taste, but if the music is more promoted in the media, is it more "commercial" for you ??? and if yes, as long as the music doesn't change, why is it bad ???
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I am all for changing the spirit for the better if it's at all needed? But why change a vision and a scene that had it all because some of you want more money and fame and be exposed in the media? It's what it essential comes down to like it or not... Money and fame and all the kids worshipping you!
I dare you guys... Next time you make a CD make something total different and much more true to the roots and psychedelic and let's see how many sales and bookings you get
Then you'll realize that the scene has developed into a scene where the ones with the fastest BPM and the hardest basslines get all the gigs... And of course it also help a lot if they have done 500 remix of popular pop and rock tracks + write a lot of autographs and pose on various pictures with their many groupies
I am writing in general terms here so I am not attacking anyone personal.
You know what would be a good idea? To gather all the old remaining artists and start a serious debate about the state of the scene. Maybe it would open up some eyes and put some of that good old spirit into some of them again so they forget big mega raves, authographs and fancy hotels in Mexico etc. and focus on how to get the scene back on track. But I know it's Utopia. But one can always dream
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werther
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
18
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 15:44
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On 2005-09-05 05:57, MissRobin wrote:
Space Cat does indeed do nice mastering!!! But I have become a complete believer that spending that little bit more almost always pays off. Weve just finished mastering the S>Range and Tron albums and the sound we got back was as clear as Ive heard! Ive put it next to many big labels releases and been well impressed.
We use Kevin Metcalfe (TIP, Twisted, Orbital, U2.. and the diverse list goes on) but with this guy you also know it will be closer to 2000euro.
xx
Robin
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you mean you paid 2000 euros for the mastering of the S range album?????? |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 23:01
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@Talamasca (I dont expect an answer, and you dont have to read this, this thread is so full of information anyway - Also, you tried to do something for yourself and your label, I respect that - but now, this discussion is more a matter of principle I think)
I, of course, understand your point of view - As a labelowner/manager, you will be put in a role where you need to think about what is good for your business.
However, you can forget about earnings from releasing CDs - CDs are not for making money - CDs are now a mere promotion tool for your artists so they can get bookings. (you knew that of course). If they are too expensive for you to release, then dont - People want high quality MP3s anyhow.
You will get more bookings from a bigger scene - we will get bigger parties, the bigger the scene the bigger the market is... and.... the bigger the market the more commercial it will get. This is what some of us want desperately to avoid.
Perhaps it doesnt matter to you, but it matters to us. ALOT. We spend most of our time in front of the stage and not behind it you see
What you are really asking us is "wouldnt it just be great if psytrance music was mainstream so that you would encounter it everywhere".... My personal answer to that is NO. I will bring a discman if I want it with me, or for radioshows, I got the internet. (plenty of streams there, also by my favourite djs & artists).
The vibe is very important, and the vibe you get from a commercial scene isnt the same as you get from a more underground scene.
If its all about entering collective trances, creating tribes and increasing our awareness of our planet and each other, then we need a scene where these things are in focus - and not nescessarily the artists themselves.
Stop thinking that much about money - you should be happy to work for free, and just enjoy the respect and the vibes that go with your role/status.
If you do not like it, do not do it. Plenty of people just invest in the psyscene because it makes them feel good....
If you are able to get all this respect, and great experiences for free - that in the end should be reward enough should it not ? Your role in this culture is the role of the shaman, very important, a guide and healer you could say. You have to ask yourself, do you really want to make psytrance more commercial? Because that is where you are headed!
If you truely love OUR culture, you should be interested in improving it and promoting the values it is based on. Surely, we cant lock ourselves into only thinking non commercially - but still, we need to develop and guarentee the quality of the people who are a part of our culture. Instead what we effectively do is send out a message "hey, we have great music, come and do drugs with us".
I think, a label like Mind Control should of course release great music, do live gigs and hopefully turn in a profit to make it all healthy for the people involved. So, are things THAT bad ? Perhaps being a psytrance artist should not be a full time job..... Perhaps, its really not the size of the scene thats the problem, but the ambition of the label or artist to maintain a full time business.
I guess what Im trying to say is this
Its not a matter of promoting the music itself, but a matter of promoting the psy culture as a whole. If we attract people to our scene, it should be because of the values it is built on, one of these being great music, created for the mental effect and not the profit.
When "recruiting" new people just thru the music - they will find meaning in the music thru drugs instead of a general understanding of the culture. Like, "why do we dance?", "What is active meditation?", "why is there such a great vibe?"...
They will say and believe "because of drugs & music", instead of understanding the basics of what trance is, why the collective experience causes people to be more than just themselves. The deeper meaning is gone, and therefore they enter our scene blindfolded, and will act on what they see people do, rather than what they know to be right.
The music itself is not what we need to promote, we need to promote the culture. Music is part of this culture, but the music on its own without the culture kills the original vibes/values. Im not saying things cannot change, but if the new vibes/values come out of getting the scene to be commercially successfull then there is a problem (just look to all the cheesy full on releases - While people can do what they want, it just feels wrong).
Of course, if you dont care about this vibe, or all the other things I mentioned - Well, then it no longer matters... You would not be the first artist to say "Leave me alone with your ideals, they are killing us financially!".
Again - All in all - Who are we to blame you for promoting yourself and your label ?
I think, you should promote your music within the psyscene, and not in the mainstream channel. Theres not enough of a message in the music for it to be a good way to "enlighten" people... We need more documentarys, radio shows where we can talk about what our culture is all about.
Of course, this is complete utopia if you have a lot of your personal ressources riding on a project (money).
Being an psy artist and label is just one long sacrifice, if earning respect and experiences is not enough - then you are doomed to fail, either thru bancrupcy, or by betraying the ideals which the psyculture holds dear by becomming super commercial (effectively cancelling the "psy label status").
People will be copying music forever - and if the scene gets too commercial, it dies. Thats a loose : Loose situation. Only hope for you is more money from the organizers for the gigs you play! Or, if you are clever, make earnings from selling digital medias such as MP3s, movies or similar.
When we cant stay true to our ideals, then the scene is brain dead anyways - If what guides the music is whats commercially viable, then thats what I would call a braindead scene, and keeping it alive is just prolonging its suffering.
I think, even if we have no labels we will still have people who will want to attend psytrance parties and create the music --- This will go on, no matter if people loose money on it or not.
I hope, labels and artists will know how to adapt to the fact that there is not a lot of money to be earned, and then find a way to combine that with working other jobs. I know PLENTY of artists who create kick ass music while working regular jobs, going to school and so forth.
Underground is about delivering a professional product without it having to be commercially viable. (or so I see it).
Best Wishes
Krell Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 23:22
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On 2005-09-05 01:46, DETOX wrote:
Yeah but the problem is that after the Olympics half the dance clubs of Athens were closed one way or another (except that hosting Tiesto ofcourse hehe).
And to answer your new question i think that stop inventing new sub gendres every month would be a good start,i mean we are no more than 20.000 people that listen to psy trance on a worldwide basis and we already have something like ten sub genres....
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Very true...
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Sep 5, 2005 23:25
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[quote]
On 2005-09-05 11:10, Wizdumb wrote:
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On 2005-09-05 09:43, HandA wrote:
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I want to add that in order to gain respect you need to be unique and have your own sound. 99.5% of the Full On scene's music is copy & paste.. How would that ever gain any respect? On top of that are trance musicians really that talented? (is Full On actually trance at all?)
I guess that question is something they have to ask themself. Or maybe they should try for one day to make something experimental and see if their "talents" is enough
I do not say that other genres dont have bad music too. It surely do but let's face it. When we talk about the scene today it's very hard not to avoid talking about Full on or Neo Full on etc. Simply because those genres are the biggest genres. But that does not make it more or less quality. If the size of an Audience = quality then we would see a lot of popular supermarket music on the top of the quality ladder
My 2 (or 10) cents of rant.
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Amen to that,pretty well put , Handa.
and since when did bigger =better, anyways ??
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Yes... When?
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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talamasca
Talamasca
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
180
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 01:48
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Hello handa and krell..(and all others of course, but it seems we have for once an intelligent discussion now...)
So first of all, thank you very much for such big answers...in many topics, i saw so many times people who , instead of saying what they are really thinking, were just writing:"this is shit"....and i believe that's why so many interesting topics were in the end boring because it was more a war than a discussion....
But you know, there will always be artists who will make music for themselves, and artists who make music because they want the people to love it...and of course the best ones are those who combine the two together....as producers, our goal is that the maximum of people will enjoy our music, and you can not blame us for this....now, i don't want trance to be a "mainstream" music in its real meaning, because as you said it would lose its "vibe"...and anyway, i stopped thinking it could be one day mainstream, because it is more made to be danced in parties than to be listened...
no,my goal is diferent....my goal is to not be arrested by the police when i go to play in some countries, my goal is that what happened in the party in tcheque republic or in the US during this summer never happen again ( the police who "kicks" the people who came to trance parties), my goal is to not be suspected as a drug dealer everytime i say the world "psytrance"...and i have many other exemples like this who are not related to fame and money...don't missunderstand me please....
I've spent the last 12 years almost every week end in parties, so please, don't ask me if it matters a lot to me...this is my life....you say : "Perhaps being a psytrance artist should not be a full time job"...and you are right, it is not ! it takes me much more time than a normal job ! 
Anyway, i understand your point of view....but i am sure you understand also mine....and forget about the money, I've never complained about it, i've said that little labels are dying,i explained why, and that if only the "commercial" labels are staying because of the "underground attitude", then , what we don't want will happen...
Read you soon
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volvox box
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
410
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 03:09
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Want it or not my friend you cannot change it. Its greater powers that will decide. |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 6, 2005 03:21
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Although HandA and me like to disagree alot, I really sympathise with what u wrote man, and agree with all of it actually. I also see the decaying of the 'trance spirit' as it was 10 years ago and before that, but unlike you I think there are more reasons than stardom and greed to this phenomena. I think it is a natural development of something that affected by Time and Technological Leap we were/are into last 5 years. Art cannot be held in a drawer, and that is why Led Zeppelin that played the blues in the end of the sixties became a monster band in the seventies and there for sure will be those that swear on their grannie that they sold out. Pixies were a total outsider band but in the moment they became COOL that was it.. there are so many examples.. And yeah well..
What can be said about artist that makes underground music and suddenly finds out that his albums sold 3 or 4 times more than every other band? Should he move genre because of it or make his music differently to sell less?
I ofcourse agree with u that there are many of those that manipulate our scene and culture and make it look like shit, but I guess that as in every community there are rotten apples and usually everyone knows who/where they are, and usually no one does anything about it, so here u go our scene is the exact stereotype of human society evolution for good and for bad.
I dont think the elders of the scene can do much affecting what happens, surely not today.. The age of the listeners to this music is some 10 years lower in average than it was 10 years ago. It doesnt seems to me that they give a shit about noble ideas, Peace Love and Understanding since the whole western world doesnt give a shit about that these days.
That is why altho I sympathise with what u said I believe u r fighting windmills here.
Cedric u r cool character I like your guts.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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