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To VooV Organizers - (an open letter)
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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1114
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 14:41
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Dear VooV organizers.
Ive had the pleasure of attending your VooV festival 1999 and from 2001->2004 - I will be there, 2005 also.
I would like to know, why you create a "circle of sound" on the mainstage - since that setup causes the music outside the circle to sound wrong (double kick from the beat, and the rest of the sounds).
Your festival has become really big, and theres so many people attending the festival, that there is no room for people who want to dance and feel free, which is what its all about right ?
Sure, you can fight your way into the middle of it all, but you will be crambed together - its almost like some rock concert when you want to dance where the music sounds good.
Im very sad that you choose this setup still, because you are creating a really cool stage for the nighttime, with the lasers and all - but I cant enjoy the most essential thing (the music) to its fullest by dancing to it.
It not only saddens me that I cant dance and feel free, but also, that you are wasting your talents on creating something spectacular that isnt functional. Somebody must have told you before ?
Its a really cool idea, for a party that isnt so big with a circular sound setup - I can only speculate, that you have wanted to create a "VooV Experience" and the concept includes the circle of sound and this is why you stuck with it.
The sound is REALLY good when you are inside the circle, but you cant dance like you want to the music - you need to go outside the circle to do that, and the sound quality is horrible there.
There are people dancing out of the circle, yes - but they would probably dance to a vacuum cleaner og car alarm also, even if you should turn the music off, theyd probablystill dance.
This renders the main scene, inoperable, for the guest who really wants that ultimate experience of dancing under the open sky while achieving a music influensed trance.
Please remember, that your festival is HUGE now, and the design of the scene doesnt work that well anymore. Please redesign the scene - It would be better with 2 scenes like the alternative scene.
Or, if you INSIST that it be a circular setup - It must be bigger, much bigger.
Up the entrence fee if you have to, no use going to a party, where the sound system makes it hard for you to connect with the music.
The main scene must have a larger area, in which the sound sounds right - Im talking AT LEAST double the size of now, and preferrably much more.
You have a chance to fix this - Do it right for 2005. Dont do it all the same every year, experiment 
Regards
Krell
  Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 14:42
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btw, sorry if this has been discussed before, but the search function doesnt work at the moment :-/
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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MoWGLi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
415
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:08
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I fully agree and I hope if they are going to change it that they are going Samothraki style. That was amazing.
I must add that the sound on the alternative-floor is really good. The set-up is much better. Now I come to think of it, the sound on the 2nd floor is a mini-Samothraki set-up, if I remember correctly. I'm no expert in the technical side so don't shoot me if it's totally different. |
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-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
1087
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:32
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I agree, circle stages really do sound bad.(aka full moon 2004).
samothraki was nice indeed, why do organizers insist on circle stages?
`Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot |
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olivier
Side-A
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1303
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 15:50
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i agree !!!
the sound on the alternative stage is just amazing !one of the best i've ever heard ,beside the sound on the main stage is not really good and lack of power , clarity and bass
circle stage is not a good option, a big wall of speakers is for sure the best option!
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aje
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
1145
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 16:09
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a3k
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
269
Posts :
7826
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 16:16
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-10 15:32, -Abatwa- wrote:
samothraki was nice indeed, why do organizers insist on circle stages?
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2 create a energy circle ?
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andonis
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
901
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 16:34
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I haven't been to VooV but I have to say that Krell's opinion was very well put indeed. I wonder if any of the organisers are going to take notice.
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Madpup
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
174
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 19:23
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Krell - I do not agree with what you have said. It is not that crowded inside the circle, every time I went in there, there was enough space to dance, in fact much more than what you get at a normal club. People are very respectfull, there is no pushing etc. I do not understand why you are so concerns, when the base of your argument is flawed. Also whilst the sound outside the circle is not great, it is not as bad as what you describe, there are quite a few spots where you can enjoy decent quality sound.
I am all for the circle. |
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olivier
Side-A
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1303
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 19:40
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even in the best place inside the cercle, the sound is far less good than on the alternative stage where the sound is fat everywhere
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 19:53
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Just one wall with speakers is really bad IMO.
Everyone standing turned to the same direction do not make for a nice party in my experience.
Of course many big festivals have a huge stage and people end up behaving like some rock-n-roll sheeps anyway.
So, I never enjoy big festivals as a party myself really.
But most the die-hard dancing freaks I know really hates when sound is only come from one direction, and they would sure get a lot of complaints if they went for that option.
Hide the stage away and have a well set up rig with at least four stacks pointing into a centre.
If you can't get into the circle the dancefloor is too small, but who cares how it sounds outside the dancefloor???
I really think that the rock concert vibe and mentality is taking over too much in this scene.
It's supposed to be a party...no?
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 20:19
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To Madpup
Quote Madpup "Krell - I do not agree with what you have said. It is not that crowded inside the circle, every time I went in there, there was enough space to dance, in fact much more than what you get at a normal club."
How much space there is varies, sometimes its ok, but often its not. I like to dance on that stage during the nighttime - It looks best at that time of day.
If I put out just my elbows, I would have touched other people 90% of the time. The dancing area, is very limited. Theres no reason it has to be that way.
I dont go to an outpoor party to experience the crambed together dancefloor of a club - Its about freedom of movement and vision, among many other things.
Quote Madpup "People are very respectfull, there is no pushing etc. I do not understand why you are so concerns, when the base of your argument is flawed."
People are almost always respectfull at trance parties - I was once dancing at that stage, and I kept bumbing into a guy standing behind me and he just pushed me back into me square everytime with a smile. Still, everytime that happened, I was pulled out of the trance/dance experience.
The drawbacks of the scene far outweigh the benefits, for me and many others.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but the basis of my argument cannot be flawed, since its based on MY subjective experience.
What makes it "right", and what should motivate the organizer to take a note of this is, that my experience correlates with a lot of other peoples.
Or at least, that is my theory, and why I created this "open letter" - I think, even if it bothers the shit out of 30% of the people there is still a problem.
I think, the ones who are really focused on the music and come for that experience, also demand a lot in regards to sound quality.
Besides, what if you dont want to stand inside the circle ? Maybe just chill outside with your friends ? You will have to listen to completely misaligned music all the time.
Quote Madpup "Also whilst the sound outside the circle is not great, it is not as bad as what you describe, there are quite a few spots where you can enjoy decent quality sound. "
Not as bad as I describe ? The beat is galloping away so much you would think a complete newbie DJ was on. The problem is the distance between the speaker, front and back - Due to the speed of sound, the beat of the front row does not match the back row - So it sounds like 2 tracks on top of each other, out of sync.
This goes for percussion, melodies and everything else in the tracks.
Its like one long bad beatmix - all the time. Absolutely horrible. Lets meet up this year, and we will talk about it in front of the stage if they dont fix the problem!
My point is, to me, and a lot of other people - This setup is devastating to the experience. The setup on the alternative stage is perfect, but thats only half the party :-(
To Spindrift.
I dont know if you have been to VooV before ? I like the sound to come from everywhere as well - Im guessing, this could be accomplished also, but the scene needs to be bigger then - so the area inside the circle is larger.
However, since Im not a sound professional I dont REALLY know if thats possible.
Quote Spindrift
"Everyone standing turned to the same direction do not make for a nice party in my experience"
Well, everyone IS standing faced the same direction anyways - It doesnt change. Have you tried standing with your back to the sound ? Sounds just about the same I think
I hope everyone who are not happy with the current setup will take part in this thread, so the organizers will find a solution.
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 20:51
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@krell
No, i was to antaris 2003, and although I had a good time I cannot say that the feeling resembled any like a trance party. They did have a cricle of speakers as well, and it sure sounded crap if you where outside the circle, but like I said, for me at least how the sound is on the dance floor should have priority over how it sounds outside.
I one likes to chill and don't feel like dancing just stroll down to the chill area.
For me the main reason why I cannot get a party feeling at big festivals is the way everyone stand facing the stage.
I did say that I don't think it helps a lot having speakers from all directions, not as long as you have an elevated stage to give more attention to all the live acts.
But it sure helps a bit, and turning the back to the speaker you sure hear the sound, thats not the issue.
You do turn towards the speakers anyway almost instinctivly.
The best parties by far I been to is the ones where you cannot see the DJ and have sound from all directions. It creates a totally different feeling when everyone get immersed in the party and loose their sense of direction.
But that is very rare nowadays because the people who where doing parties because they wanted to make something nice for others is gone. People with that spirit got burned and fed up.
Now it's about $$$ and promotion.
And then a big high stage with live acts, a wall of speakers and people spending time outside the actual dancefloor serves those puropses better.
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 21:21
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To Spindrift
"No, i was to antaris 2003, and although I had a good time I cannot say that the feeling resembled any like a trance party. They did have a cricle of speakers as well, and it sure sounded crap if you where outside the circle, but like I said, for me at least how the sound is on the dance floor should have priority over how it sounds outside. "
Sure it should, and it does have priority in any setup It just doesnt work well with that many people@VooV, when the area for them to dance at, is so small.
Not to silence you or anything, but this thread is mainly for the people who have actually been there - I think, you would agree with me, if you had been tried to dance at that stage since somehow, I think you appreciate space also ? Crambed = bad, spacy = good Or perhaps Im just putting words into your mouth ehhehe.
Quote Spindrift "The best parties by far I been to is the ones where you cannot see the DJ and have sound from all directions. It creates a totally different feeling when everyone get immersed in the party and loose their sense of direction. "
Hehe, you like chaos Its fine, I prefer this kind of setup also, but I never see it. I dont think I will see it, unless its at a small, underground outdoor event, which VooV isnt. Its huge.
Actually, my mates and I, are going to do outdoor stuff this summer, and have already discussed the sound and the option of buying more speakers to create this intense sound. (but this is for 40-50 people tops).
Btw, I agree, you dont have to see the DJ/Act all the time - A booth is fine, he doesnt have to hide himself - but hey, VooV is a show also I dont mind that stage due to the size of it all... but for underground events, no stage please
Quote Spindrift "Now it's about $$$ and promotion.
And then a big high stage with live acts, a wall of speakers and people spending time outside the actual dancefloor serves those puropses better."
Yeah Yeah - but its not about $$$ for me, I just want to go and have a great time dancing and listening to the music I love.
Getting the best experience out of it that I can. I very much dislike dancing where there is little room, stepping on peoples toes, and especially getting out of the way for the people that constantly go back and forth, because theres no room for dancing and walking.
This thread is not about Stereo Vs Circular Setups in general - Its about a problem with the VooV mainstage setup, that compacts the main stage dancefloor sound so much, that a whooooole lot of people gotta fit into way to little space in order to get OK(or in the inner circle, amazing) sound without coming in contact with each other all the time.
Its about dancing undisturbed, so you can achieve a niiice trance state, in which you can start your meditation and daydreaming - What its all about, which isnt possible for me, and many others at this here VooV Experience. (at least at the main stage). Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 21:55
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I do not like huge parties and prefer underground parties and you are probably right that I have no reason to involve in this thread really.
But I do think I understand a bit where the voov arrangers is coming from.
They used to participate in a lot of small underground parties as well and I think they have the same feeling as me about creating a wall of speakers as opposed to a stereo setup.
I guess the problem you are discussing is more related to the size of the dancefloor than the speaker setup. No-one likes an over crowded dancefloor.
But to try to solve it by dumping the circular sound setup would piss more people off according to the impression I have got from voov frequenters I know.
If you do like bigger parties you have to accept the fact that voov is the biggest and longest running event of it's sort.
I think one reason for that is that the arrangers does have quite a bit of party experience and know how for example switching to a stereo setup would make it much more into a rock concert than a party.
Sure trying to give some constuctive critisism is always good, but I do think that according to what I understand from people going to voov every year for more than a decade now it would not be a welcome move changeing the basic setup of the sound.
Thats the impression I have.
There is a lot of people I know who been commenting on how great the sound setup on voov is and mentioning in paritcular that there is sound from all directions.
But yes I don't go there because it's not my cuppa with that kind of event so it's really none of my business.
I just hate parties with less than four stacks and liked to explain why.
The voov crew would for sure have to hear a lot of nagging from a lot of people like me if they changed it. They sure seeem like they have a winning concept how a massive party should be arranged.
That it get's overcrowded from time to time is something that happens on every big festival.
It happened big time last time I went to Roskilde, and after that I never went there again.
I rather stick to smaller events since I do not like overcrowdedness.
Ok...I will keep out of the discussion and quit winching now
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