| Author
|
To VooV Organizers - (an open letter)
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 22:46
|
To Spindrift (just quoting him in this post)
"I do not like huge parties and prefer underground parties and you are probably right that I have no reason to involve in this thread really."
As do I - A festival isnt a party for me though, its something else. Doesnt matter in this context though.
"But I do think I understand a bit where the voov arrangers is coming from.
They used to participate in a lot of small underground parties as well and I think they have the same feeling as me about creating a wall of speakers as opposed to a stereo setup."
Exactly, this is what I think as well - and I know it rocks when theres room enough in the cicle 
"I guess the problem you are discussing is more related to the size of the dancefloor than the speaker setup. No-one likes an over crowded dancefloor."
You got that right - Which is also why Im asking for either a change in the general setup, or an adaptation for a larger dancefloor.
"But to try to solve it by dumping the circular sound setup would piss more people off according to the impression I have got from voov frequenters I know."
Ok - but what you see so far in this thread is 4 people against and 1 for - and then you who has never been there.
Ive been there several times, with loads of people. Dissatisfied by that sound setup many of them.
However, it does not change the validity of your point that maybe it would piss a lot of people off..., but... So does the current setup.
This is also why Im mentioning alternatives, adaption or a stereo setup. Theres a problem, thats my point
"If you do like bigger parties you have to accept the fact that voov is the biggest and longest running event of it's sort.
I think one reason for that is that the arrangers does have quite a bit of party experience and know how for example switching to a stereo setup would make it much more into a rock concert than a party."
I disagree. Its not perfect, and they know that - Im a frequent guest at their festival, pointing out what I and others see as a problem and providing a solution, thats constructive feedback. Only a poor organizer would ignore it.
Great they want to do something different, but if it doesnt work, it should change or be modified so it works. Sure, many people are happy with the way it is, it is always like that (everybody has their opinion).
It doesnt matter if some people like it the way it is - they might also like it the way its going to be when modified.
What matters is, how many people do not like it the way it is. If its just me, then so what? But if its many people, then there is a real problem they would want to adress.
"Sure trying to give some constuctive critisism is always good, but I do think that according to what I understand from people going to voov every year for more than a decade now it would not be a welcome move changeing the basic setup of the sound."
Well, how can they know if they havent tried it ? The sound has been changed at VooV many times before actually If its for the better, they
will like it.
If they like the sound the way it is, let them defend their views here:-) I think, it has to be that way, in order for the feedback in this thread to be of any use for the organizer at all.
"There is a lot of people I know who been commenting on how great the sound setup on voov is and mentioning in paritcular that there is sound from all directions."
If you are in the right place in the circle it ROCKS - I mean, its the best sound I EVER heard at a party. This goes for the alternative stage as well, GREAT sound. Its like you wrote, a problem with the size of the dancefloor. There are so many people there, its more of a hifi experiment than a place where you can go and dance undisturbed.
Just leaving it alone, as you suggest, means it wont evolve - and isnt this exactly what you and many others are whining about so often ?:-) (you dont need to answer this, its quite retorical I know).
"I just hate parties with less than four stacks and liked to explain why."
Thats fair enough, but not what this thread is about Its about me pointing out a problem, and encouraging the organizer to fix it. I dont care how the setup is really, as long as it 1.: Sounds Good and 2.: Has enough room to dance, chill + walk back and forth - Which it doesnt, but it could.
"The voov crew would for sure have to hear a lot of nagging from a lot of people like me if they changed it. They sure seeem like they have a winning concept how a massive party should be arranged."
It can be better, and I think, they are aware of the problem. They have changed it before, and they will again - Im trying to make them focus on what I think is important.
My theory is, that they envisioned this "VooV Experience" where you are surround my massive sound. However, I dont think their party was as big then, as it is now. So, they need to adapt.
For sure, it was a lot smaller in 1999 when I first went. I have no clue how it was before. In 1999, the alternative dancefloor was a big tent - Now its a huge stage of its own.
"That it get's overcrowded from time to time is something that happens on every big festival.
It happened big time last time I went to Roskilde, and after that I never went there again.
I rather stick to smaller events since I do not like overcrowdedness."
It is not a problem on the alternative stage there, since you can dance over a much larger area with OK sound due to the stereo setup. The music sounds "right" even though you are far from the speakers - As long as you are in front of them.
Luckily, the festival isnt THAT big yet.
"Ok...I will keep out of the discussion and quit winching now "
You made your point clear for sure - and as you see, I agree with you on many things. I also prefer underground parties, I like circular sound, I dislike ego booths for acts N DJs.
Thing is, you just need to have been there, but you dont go to this event - so you havent experienced the problem.
This thread is for the people going there, who want to improve it - and if its just me whinning - Then ok but it seems, others agree. Which I knew before I posted this thread they would.
*smiles*
Krell
  Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 10, 2005 23:54
|
Yeah Voov sucks (for me)
Not only that is to big, that there is no good vibe the most shitty thing is not to know who plays.
But i have respect for the people that organize it.
And Krell is right the area/stage organization is crap.
Sounds like shit if u not standing in the circle.
I don't go to Voov anymore coz it is not a good festival in my eyes.
But i wish all people lot of fun there if they go there
Peace
Signature |
|
|
|
mouka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
383
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 11:49
|
Maybe it was the drugs and not the sound system that makes you hear a double beat???
I go to the Voov for over a decade now and the purpose of the circulair sound is to create a energy field. In my opinion the pam surround system@voov is the best you can get at an open air festival. Even outside the circle there is hardly a double beat. This is the only circulair soundsystem that really has quality.
Any other like the Full Moon or Excalibur (4 years ago) where they use a circulair sound setup only gives you a double beat as soon as you leave the circle. Every festival should use a Voov like soundsystem to experience a true psychedelic sound experience and not a rock concert soundsytem setup.
Imo there is no reason at all to have a thread about it, just go there and enjoy and forget all your worries.
www.ajana-records.com
www.trishula-records.com |
|
|
|
traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 12:03
|
if it's anything like boom04's setup it's baaaaaaaaaad
samothraki 03 (or was it 02?) had bloody awesome soundsystems, both the 5.1 chill and the main stage
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
|
|
|
HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 12:15
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-02-10 23:54, EYB wrote:
the most shitty thing is not to know who plays. |
|
That's the most refreshing thing about Voov. No "stars" and "Gods" as in so many other Festivals. At Voov the stars are the people on the Dancefloor.
The PA set-up rock but I agree... It should be bigger so there's more room and indeed there's a bad sound outside the circle... And no I dont do drugs. I just happen to know a big deal about sound  |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 12:31
|
To Mocca (only qouting him in this thread)
"Maybe it was the drugs and not the sound system that makes you hear a double beat??? "
The double beat is there all the time. Physics you know
"I go to the Voov for over a decade now and the purpose of the circulair sound is to create a enregy field."
Which works when you are inside the circle - The music rocks there. Its a nice idea, with the the dancefloor so cramped, because this energy field is too small, it just destroys the experience.
"In my opinion the pam surround system@voov is the best you can get at an open air festival."
It rocks inside the cicle, like I write earlier in this post. Inside the circle, the sound is not the problem, the dancefloor area is.
"Even outside the circle there is hardly a double beat. This is the only circulair soundsystem that really has quality."
I dont doubt that it has quality - Inside the circle, its a hifi experience. Inside the circle, there is no problem with the sound, there just isnt enough space to dance.
"Any other like the Full Moon or Excalibur (4 years ago) where they use a circulair sound setup only gives you a double beat as soon as you leave the circle."
So does VooV - It sounds horrible. People in this thread agree, so are you saying we are all imagining things? Come on
"Every festival should use a Voov like soundsystem to experience a true psychedelic sound experience and not a rock concert soundsytem setup. "
Its not the setup that makes the experience special, its the music - and the music is destroyed outside that circle for the priviledged few who dont mind being stacked together like fish end a barrel.
"Imo there is no reason at all to have a thread about it, just go there and enjoy and forget all your worries. "
Well, there always is the alternative stage if the mainstage is too full, and I will be going there again 2005.
I think, we can argue about this forever.
However, creating a stage where a substantial part of the audience has a bad audio/dance experience is IMO a bad idea, and should be modified.
You must understand, that I think the sound rocks inside the circle - but this energy field, is too small. Too many people have to/want to fit inside this energy field, and a lot of the time, its so cramped together its like being at a crowded club. (and this is an outdoor event).
No reason to have a thread about it ? Why ? Isnt this forum supposed to be about music, culture, parties etc - Since when did constructive critisism become a bad idea ?
Regards
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 12:43
|
To HandA
Quote Handa
"The PA set-up rock but I agree... It should be bigger so there's more room and indeed there's a bad sound outside the circle... And no I dont do drugs. I just happen to know a big deal about sound "
EXACTLY - Thats what Im trying to say, and what I would like the organizer to consider.
The reason why I say it might be better with stereo is purely that the alternative stage doesnt have the double beat problem.
If they can create a larger circle, or energy field as mocca says - That would be GREAT.
It does require change in the setup, and thats what Im trying to motivate.
Since its sad, so many people get a bad experience at that stage.
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 13:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-02-11 12:15, HandA wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-02-10 23:54, EYB wrote:
the most shitty thing is not to know who plays. |
|
That's the most refreshing thing about Voov. No "stars" and "Gods" as in so many other Festivals. At Voov the stars are the people on the Dancefloor.
The PA set-up rock but I agree... It should be bigger so there's more room and indeed there's a bad sound outside the circle... And no I dont do drugs. I just happen to know a big deal about sound
|
|
Yeah normally i don't care a shit about who is playing (ok i like to know the style of a party, coz here are a lot of 'only proggy'-parties) but if i make my way to such big festival and have to pay much money for it then i want to know who is playing coz i don't want to dirve some hundrets kilometers pay lot of bugs to see if there is good music played or the half time crap again (like often at the voov).
Peace
Signature |
|
|
|
heather feather
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
136
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 13:59
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-02-11 13:41, EYB wrote:
Yeah normally i don't care a shit about who is playing (ok i like to know the style of a party, coz here are a lot of 'only proggy'-parties) but if i make my way to such big festival and have to pay much money for it then i want to know who is playing coz i don't want to dirve some hundrets kilometers pay lot of bugs to see if there is good music played or the half time crap again (like often at the voov).
Peace
|
|
That's the beauty of Voov surely, it's not 'much money' - aren't the tickets usually about 30 euro?? And for that you get an array of internationals representing most of the sub-genres of psytrance. Just remember, you can't please everyone all of the time, I think the organisers do a fantastic job of getting a good selection of artists and dj's for a very resonable price.
Krell I'm with you, I don't really have that much appreciation for the main stage at Voov, the circular soundsystem does not do the music justice, for all the reasons you have metioned. I do however love the alternative stage - have spent many hours stomping with a big grin there  |
|
|
|
EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 14:14
|
|
But if i would know the acts i could decide if i like to listen to them and pay for the party and the way, or if i go to another party.
Signature |
|
|
|
HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 14:20
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-02-11 12:43, Krell wrote:
To HandA
Quote Handa
"The PA set-up rock but I agree... It should be bigger so there's more room and indeed there's a bad sound outside the circle... And no I dont do drugs. I just happen to know a big deal about sound "
EXACTLY - Thats what Im trying to say, and what I would like the organizer to consider.
The reason why I say it might be better with stereo is purely that the alternative stage doesnt have the double beat problem.
If they can create a larger circle, or energy field as mocca says - That would be GREAT.
It does require change in the setup, and thats what Im trying to motivate.
Since its sad, so many people get a bad experience at that stage.
Krell
|
|
Actually it's quite simple.. They can keep the current setup and just add some additional stereo PA's outside the circle. That would solve the problem and not break any budget. |
|
|
|
EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 14:23
|
|
Yes cool even more phasing.
Signature |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 14:25
|
Some illustrations Thought Id slam on some pictures so you can see what Im talking about.
VooV Main stage - No people - Size of the dancefloor is easy to see - This is the ring you need to be inside, where the sound quality is excellent. Note the distance to the box in the middle, and the size of the people.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2004/ic_polle/media/picture_054.jpg
Heres the Main Stage problem illustrated very well... Inside the inner circle during the night
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2004/ic_polle/media/picture_101.jpg
Main Stage during the night - Note the box in the middle again, for reference.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2004/ic_polle/media/picture_102.jpg
Can you see people are not dancing ? They are just standing there. Hows that for a serious mind altering trance dance VooV Experience ? :-/
Outside the first and second sound circles. The music is very garbled, double kicks (due to the speakers distance to you, the sounds reach your ear with a delay, creating a very annoying delay) Sounds like one long bad beatmix, like a horse galloping.
To the right, theres a white sound tower of the second sound circle, once you get between that tower and the inner circle the music improves somewhat (since the sounds of some of the inner circle speakers and the white speaker tower reach you "in sync", however, due to the circular setup and the other white tower, theres still double kicks and delays)
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/204-0475_img.jpg
Here you get an indication of how many people are outside that "second circle" - You can see what tower to the right. Music quality here is horrible. (go listen yourself next year, if you are in doubt or disagree)
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/204-0480_img.jpg
Actually, during the day - Its not so much a problem to go dance inside the circle - Its just too damn hot for most people to do so. Many people still prefer chilling out away from the dancefloor - Too bad the sound is so bad there. Probably they prefer full on over the progressive being played at the alternative stage - or, their "idol" is playing and they wanna experience it. (this is where I would be during the day time, too hot for me to dance then).
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/204-0482_img.jpg
Note how people are stacking together ? This picture it taken from the outer edge of the second circle. If you place yourself between a speaker tower in the inner circle "ok" sound - Too bad theres not that much room there for dancing since everybody wants to be where the sound is good.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/207-0810_img.jpg
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/207-0812_img.jpg
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/208-0888_img.jpg
Heres why the VooV mainstage kicks ass during the night - and why thats the place you want to be.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_psychedelic_scene/media/202-0266_img.jpg
Here the alternative Stage, close to the sound
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_progressive_scene/media/203-0362_img.jpg
Note the distance of things, the sound here is fine at the alternative stage.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2003/ic_progressive_scene/media/203-0398_img.jpg
Alternative stage. More room for dancing.
http://www.utopian.dk/tt/voov2004/ic_polle/media/picture_068.jpg
Disclaimer.: What sucks and what does not suck, is my opinion. These pictures describe what Im talking about.
Now we only need the sounds.
Best wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
Madpup
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
174
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 16:14
|
Once again, I repeat, there are plenty of spots outside the circle where the sound is without the double beat. Krell, you can keep saying what you want, but it is just not true.
In fact I had a tent pitched on a campsite closest to the main stage, and I remember I was hearing very good quality sound when I was inside my tent. |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Feb 11, 2005 16:31
|
To Madpup
Actually, the campsite closest to the mainstage is behind the stage - and the problem isnt as bad there.
You see, the second circle, with the speaker towers causing a lot of the double beat are in front of the scene and are not noticeable that much behind the scene.
Its physics - if you have 1 speaker 25meters away, and another speaker 50meters away you get a delay which corresponds to the movement of sound over 25 meters.
This creates the double beat, since its like 2 tracks being beatmixed, where one track is behind the other.
If you cant hear it, it must be because you are not paying enough attention, or focusing on the sound of the music.
Regardless, the double beat is there, as long as there are speakers located in a way, that sound from 1 speaker has to travel further than sound from another speaker before it reaches your ears.
Actually, it would be possible to recreate this effect, by guessing at the distance between the speakers furthest up front, and the ones furthest down the back.
You can get the same experience on a widely spaced stereo scene, if you place yourself to the left or right of the scene (depending on the scenes size)
So, like I say, if you cant hear it, its because you notice sound quality less than I do - Id love to meet up with you this year, and we can go experience this together.
Maybe the thing is, that it just doesnt bother you as much as it bothers me.
Did you also notice on the alternative scene, that the UV setup they have next to the scene reflects the sound and also causes a delay ? Its not that bad though, since its far from stage.
Either way, the situation now is.
You know you are right
and
I know I am right
So unless one of us is lying, the truth is to be found between us .
I know Im not lying, and I cant see why you would either.
Therefore, it has to do with either our memory, or, how critical we are of sound quality.
Dont you agree with me on that ?
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
|
- Indoor Party
- Outdoor Party
- Free Parking
- Free Water
- ChillOut Area
- Free Drink
- Free Entrance
- VJ
- Deco