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the concept of HELL in psytrance

Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  25
Posts :  725
Posted : May 6, 2007 05:15
And hell can also be things like suffering, pain, fear, hate, tourture, greed, etc.

Things that regardless of what you believe speak for themselves and whether you are a christian, budhist or atheist you are most likely to find them negative in one way or another.

Just like LOVE on the other hand, is seen as a positive universally. No matter what you believe, love is just... sweeeett positive vibrations
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  1123
Posted : May 6, 2007 08:29
Quote:

On 2007-05-06 05:15, Aluxe wrote:
And hell can also be things like suffering, pain, fear, hate, tourture, greed, etc.




Hell is around us every single day, no need to go looking for any metaphysical fiery pits. In another thread, someone wrote "Goa is a state of mind".......yup ---and so is hell.

On another note.....concept of hell in psytrance= D-Nox, Beckers, wrecked machines, other superficial pop crap playing at psytrance parties......one place they definetly do not belong imo. Everyone should just throw empty beer cans at them or something (clean up afterwards of course). Shoot them with a big acid cannon Psytrance hell=coca cola/pepsi sponsorship....
just go away and dont come back.....pls

Or get a big bare psy foot kick up the ass




daark
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  58
Posts :  1397
Posted : May 6, 2007 17:29
and what would u like too keep?
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  38
Posts :  1931
Posted : May 7, 2007 13:48
Very intersting discussion here;). It took some time to read it but it was worth reading !

The concept behind the term dark psy is actually one of the most interesting subjects regarding the trance culture in general. Some years ago I was definitively against this term because i did not like the idea of calling this music agressive and destroying. I was annoyed especially by the people who used dark symbols without any deeper idea behind it, just for fun, just to be " against".
But in the meanwhile I realized that psychedelic trance has always been DARK, because the very meaning of the word psychedelic comes from " opening the soul " and this means you have to go deep into yourself first and get to know your deepest inner realms in order to get to know the realms beyond our material world. and further you go into yourself, the more darkness you will find and the more frightnening it will get because you are losing the material essence of the world , you are loosing the ground under your feeth and you are getting more and more a being of subtil energy. This is frightening for many people ahd that is why they will never go beyond and they just don't like this kind of sounds tooo, just becaus this is challenging them to go deeper than they will ever want to. So everyone who wants to travel into the psychedelic realms has to be friend with the darkness, otherwise he will not survive this journey into the realms of inner space. SO as i realized that, i had no disregards toward the term dark anymore. And in every form of ritual trance that the ancient tribes had, you go from the dark side into the light. This is what the witches in the European region did during the Dark ages. And this is what they did in Rome and Greece also: they first had to know the darkness, then their material body died during a ritual and then they were resurrected, they had a new birth . But first they had to get to know death spiritually. And that is exactly what we do on the dark psy trance gatherings. Actually we did this since the beginning of the trance culture in the 90ties, we just did not call it dark. But it was just like that, exactly the same. And on the whole globe on every continent we will find tha tradition of going from the darkness into the light during the deeper tribal trance rituals.
So to some extent every form of trance is dark psy trance for me.

And I have read many interesting and wise wirds here written by people who are annoyed by the covers and flyers with a very dark image. Actually I am annoyed by them too, but it is not because I think that the concept of darkness has nothing to do with psychedelic. I am annoyed only because it is not real, there is often no deep concept behind it, it is just a joke for most of the people. It seems like a fashion movement to me. And this " fashion" to put an image of hell and bones on the cover seems very ridiculous to me. I would accept it, if it was at least a bit of concept about the darkness in psychedelic trance and not just an empty fashion. So to some extent i really agree with the people who say they are annoyed by that.

But annyway i must confess, that I am deeply inhaled by the concept of darkness in psychedelic trance. And it is not just dark psy which is dark , come on , even if you take a cover of shpongle or some covers from the very beginning of the trance culture in the 90s, you will encounter the concept of darkness, wouldn'T you?????????

We need the concept of darkness as well, because first of all, the whole neo hippie flower movement has more to do with " empathic trance" and not with psychedelic trance.

i mean .... i thought psychedelic trance experience means encounter with deeper realities where all kinds of subtil energies surround you: not only loving angels but also dark demons and gods of destruction ( shiva for instance has been a symbol used in covers since the beginning of this culture, it is not a product of dark psy) .

Psychedelic does not mean love light and only positive thoughts , these are totally different things. Psychedelic can be very scary , and also in the hippie movement in the sixxties there were lots of artists , filmmakers etc who delt with darkness and psychedelics. it is nothing new!

And even if we disregard the term dark psy in order to see only collective spirit and plur and utopic visions in this culture, it will only be a lie. It has never existed. This culture, i think, has much more to offer than the vision of " one spirit, one world, peace, love unity respect ". Because we are first of all a psychedelic culture and not only an empathic one. YOu know what i mean????? It just doesnt work like that. it is a lie!!!! i have seen so many egos, and ego trips and bad energies on trance parties recently that i just refuse to believe in this utopic lie any more. And this is not a bad thing to refuse to believe that, cause as i said we are much more than a culture of empathic visions. MUCH MORE.

Heathen

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  51
Posted : May 7, 2007 19:46
Quote:

On 2007-05-07 13:48, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:......And even if we disregard the term dark psy in order to see only collective spirit and plur and utopic visions in this culture, it will only be a lie. It has never existed. This culture, i think, has much more to offer than the vision of " one spirit, one world, peace, love unity respect ". Because we are first of all a psychedelic culture and not only an empathic one. YOu know what i mean????? It just doesnt work like that. it is a lie!!!! i have seen so many egos, and ego trips and bad energies on trance parties recently that i just refuse to believe in this utopic lie any more. And this is not a bad thing to refuse to believe that, cause as i said we are much more than a culture of empathic visions. MUCH MORE.



All things evolve. Musick is no different. Nor should any hippie "movement".

"….Times they are a changing..."

What once was can not stay static otherwise it will eventually die. It must adapt and move forward. For me, darkpsy is more energy-bound, more "mind-music", for lack of a better term. Some lightpsy (what a weird term....) is something that does not draw me in as much, it CAN be more background music (but not always) that does not jump out and "guide" my thoughts. Dark can guide or drive me in ways no other music can.

As far as good and evil go, it is just ying and yang, positive and negative, etc. One is not better or the "proper way" when compared to the other. They coexist and feed off of each other. One has a place and the other has an EQUAL and opposite place.
vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  1189
Posted : May 27, 2007 05:43
where are you guys hearing this crap? I can't imagine showing up to a party that had colorful fractals and such on their flyer, and then hearing scary horror movie shit. If you don't like this garbage, stop going to parties that have dead babies on the flyer, or whatever they use to market
palex
Palex

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  476
Posted : May 27, 2007 16:43
this thread is loosing power...muuuhauha...i miss those topic reply notification...eheheheh

cmon guys...

ps: psynina still wining
          

keep music evil!!
kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  1123
Posted : May 27, 2007 17:45
Quote:

On 2007-05-27 16:43, palex wrote:
this thread is loosing power...muuuhauha...i miss those topic reply notification...eheheheh

cmon guys...

ps: psynina still wining




Thread lost power because it got dizzy from going round in circles too much. Now it fell over and cant be bothered to get up......which is fair enough. So everyone just goes and listens to what they like
daark
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  58
Posts :  1397
Posted : May 28, 2007 16:04
dead babies are real !!!BOOO!!!
shahar
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2035
Posted : May 28, 2007 19:00
I'm sick at home, and found some time to spend here

I read through most of this thread (As I said, I'm not well... hehe...) and found most of it very superficial, I'm-better-than-you stuff. There were some interesting posts and questions, however.

The question that was not really answered for me was what does all the "evil symbolism" (skull, blood, cannibalism, etc.) really means to the people who use it or find it appealing, and what do they want to achieve with that.

Kazuku offered a spiritual explanation, but I felt Ocelot did challenge that explanation very well (if rather hotly) and didn't get a satisfying answer. Also that explanation doesn't really fit in with most of that evil symbolism I saw in covers, track names and samples used, which you must agree is quite superficial at best (and a lot of times badly done, but that's a low budget and lack of experience thing, I guess). Psychedelic musical journeys to explore the dark/evil realms were done before (probably starting with the amazing first Black Sabbath album- now that's spooky!)- can anything done in "dark trance" resemble that?

Another explanation was that all that is fun and funny. However, it still leaves me wondering why is it fun and funny? Why are horror scenes and slaughtered people funny? Can someone who thinks that check deep within himself and explain to me seriously?

Moreno compared it to 70s heavy metal blood detour starting with Ozzy & Alice Cooper as a pure gimmick (and they both admitted that what it was) and venturing into the absurd and making-fun-of-ourselves Twisted Sister, W.A.S.P and all the way to 90s GWAR (they're still around, I think) (for more on the development of Heavy Metal I recommend checking the great 8 episode VH1 rockumentary). But I don't think this comparison holds, and still the question above remains- It's not around enough and serious enough to make fun of it.

Another explanation is one that Goa Gil offered to me once in a conversation, when I asked him why he plays tracks with names like massacre etc. He said that music reflects the world around us and apparently that is what people making psychedelic music are seeing around them these days. The explanation that the world is dual (evil-good, yin-yang, light-dark) was indeed very popular here. It was most deeply explained in Moki.Time.Wave.Zero's post. But again, the deepness of this post has nothing to do with most of the symbolism used, which is very superficial. And yet, all that leaves the question, which I asked Gil and got no answer for, and which Ocelot asked here and got no answer for as well, unanswered. We all know that there is good and bad in life, we all know that there is dark and light, but what do we want in the end? What do we want around us? What do we want to promote? Good or Evil? Trance culture always answered that to the positive, wanted to promote the good and the positive. The parties usually start at night and end in the light. And don't anyone here think for a second that dark trance music was invented in the last couple of years. It was there all the time. I know, I danced to it.

Your thoughts and answers to my questions appreciated.
          ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

Evil Fucker

Started Topics :  1
Posts :  74
Posted : May 28, 2007 19:08

get well soon shahar !

Answer my question and I will answer yours..

do you think who produces horror movies want to spread bad vibes ?

shahar
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2035
Posted : May 28, 2007 19:36
Quote:

On 2007-05-28 19:08, Evil Fucker wrote:
get well soon shahar !
Answer my question and I will answer yours..
do you think who produces horror movies want to spread bad vibes ?



No. I think most of them want to make money.

Few of them (usually the very very few who make good/interesting horror movies) want to explore the dark/evil realms.

But is their motive what is interesting or the outcome of their acts?

Your turn
          ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

daark
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  58
Posts :  1397
Posted : May 28, 2007 20:31
There is yeeng and yaang in everything in you too so the real quiestion is what are you going to develope good or bad?
Life is ironic you know some things can turn upside down and unexpected at all.And then came einstein and said that everything is relative.Good and Evil too.The golden ratio of the universe.The yeeng and yaang in constant battle.

Horror-movie producers they want to scare people!duh

peak-a-booo!lol

people are scared because they always thinkin of the worse and horror films can make you think of that.Be reasonable!thats all.
shahar
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2035
Posted : May 29, 2007 12:35
Quote:

On 2007-05-28 20:31, daark wrote:
And then came einstein and said that everything is relative.Good and Evil too.



Einstein never said good & evil were relative. Read his writings and you'll discover quite the opposite.


What? No one wants to answer my questions above???           ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  32
Posts :  984
Posted : May 29, 2007 13:34
shahar: you answered to your question!

this evil concept nothing to do with psytrance!

you cannot compare horror movies and hell concept in darkpsy....because i see no connection!

while in the "quality" horror movies there is deep meaning.....in most cases ...the good is won!
in most dark psy there is no message....its just concept as concept....without message!

the question is where this hell concept came from!

1. many darkpsy producers/listeners came from death metal n stuff....!

2. provocations: especially young artists trying to provocate....they trying bring to them attention ...
and many of them dont know the real meaning of this hell/nazi/satan/horror.....stuff!

3. many of psydarkers dont realy know goa and the plur thing.....
as i said before they came from metal ...and some of them realy worshiping this stuff!

i have my limits in my english language....i hope you understand!
          www.myspace.com/aliasix
Trance Forum » » Forum  Trance - the concept of HELL in psytrance
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