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Please read this carefully - for those who care
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
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1660
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 21:43
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-18 21:35, oran(m.p) wrote:
money 4 sure is not a bad word BUT a commercialism of an underground culture(who am i kidding?) is.....
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Oran pls excuse me of asking...
But underground free party that sends off over 3000 sms messages... What does it mean?
And another thing please.. What kind of music is played there? It sounds to me too close to mp3 ripping my man, just in the nature.
  A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
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1362
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 21:55
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Quote:
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Oran pls excuse me of asking...
But underground free party that sends off over 3000 sms messages... What does it mean?
And another thing please.. What kind of music is played there? It sounds to me too close to mp3 ripping my man, just in the nature.
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about the sms's yuli i guess a little to much of those were sent...but like any other party org's asi invested money in that party more than any other friend/hat party i have ever been to(turbo/security/and more)and for sure didnt want to lose money.and btw they used few diffrent lists for that party maybe that explain y u got so many sms's.
about the second part(mp3's),sorry i tottaly lost you on that one...(r u still so sure im not stuiped?) 
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
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1660
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 22:17
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You are not stupid once again I am being picky since u r giving excuses that dont satisfy me...
I will elaborate on this...
As I said. One that makes party taking a responsibility. U cant eat from all plates at once. At least that my way of thinking. If one wants to organise a friends hat party, then no need for so much publicity since it aint fair for those that charge at the door - fair enough no, Oran? As a fair person yerself u will agree on that. Actually when I made a hat party I invested ALOT of money and I made it in the desert that makes it more expensive - DJ from swiss and ambulance included. Still I wouldnt in my life publsih it as regular party since it is a FRIENDS HAT PARTY. Otherwise it would hurt others and would be no fair competition. I lost money on that party btw, but I wouldn't do it differently since I try to be fair and square to others.
About my thing u didn't understand - I was just mumbling that in a Free Parties of yours still played tunes that someone really worked hard for. To make the point that nothing is REALLY free.
And I wonder if living an illusion is better then really living.
And actually, I never thought that free of charge parties are the essence of trance scene. I was always sure it is about the music and some substances and cool ppl around. Everywhere in the world one pays for his pleasures... Nothing bad in it.
Having said all that, I have to admit that this thread becomes useless since u and me made it a personal conversation... I think i will use my PM for the continuation of this debate and let others to add their thoughts
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
922
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 22:55
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yuli said
And actually, I never thought that free of charge parties are the essence of trance scene. I was always sure it is about the music and some substances and cool ppl around. Everywhere in the world one pays for his pleasures... Nothing bad in it.
i also think like that and btw very intersting debate |
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DanKo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
121
Posts :
392
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 23:05
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Yuli my words werent ment to u
they were in general
in the macro like u said
anyway i think its all a load of ball...
people all over the world do what they do
some r good
some r bad
and sometimes they all do it together
trance is long gone everybody's realm
also the proggy scene which i like the music in it more than the full on
take it all easy
make many parties and music as possible
competition makes us all better... |
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 23:08
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well yuli i guess your starting point is that ppl prefer to go to asi's party because it was free than to go to avishay's that cost 70nis...
i realy(realy)hope u r wrong...i realy dont see any competition between this two parties.
and to tell u the truth if what u say is true and i was in avishay's shoe's i whould prefer to lose money than having this kind of ppl in my crowd.
anyway...we both see whats happen in a diffrent way...
u think that not enough ppl came bcause of a not so fair competition.
and i think that it's happend because of basic mistake from the org's...sorry yuli but that party had a "break even" of "at least" 400 sold tickets much more than such a small production can bring even with such a great line up and promotion on isra.what i try to say that even if both dudo's and asi's parties was moved that party was still lost money.
about the true essence of trance maybe its not hat parties and for sure not money parties so i guess its just HAVING FUN.
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Psygirl®
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
189
Posts :
1096
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 23:19
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-18 22:17, Yuli wrote:
I think i will use my PM for the continuation of this debate and let others to add their thoughts
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Oh please don't do so. I'm really bored with nothing better to do (since the rest of the forum is full of crap) and reading this is a great time killer! 
Carry on ppl . . .
Live for the journey, not the destination. |
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dudu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
79
Posts :
371
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 23:48
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as a party orgeniser i have to say some things:
yuli,i don't get your point,and even i can't agrey with some of the things that said here.
first,to make a party you need more then a line-up,
this is one of the biggest mistakes of young party orgenaisers,and i don't meen their age!
you have to built your self and your crowd for long time,you have to promot your parties hardly,
you will fall sometims,you will have police problemes and.. and... and...this is a full risk job!
yes,i know it's hard to see a freind like avishay or any other freind falling,
but you have to stand back and continue,this is what count!
another thing is that i totaly can't agree is the tought
that making BIG parties/raves is not o.k.,this is BULLSHIT!,
if this productions won't be
where you will see the BIG names???
don't forget the hard long history that this pro. have,
and because they stand up after and continue to fight,
they became the leaders of the sceen.
PPL,you have to understend that the biggest problem is YOU!
to help us make yuli dream come true,
even small part of it,you have to MOVE YOUR ASS,
if we won't have your supporet,this all is for nothing!
i hoop you got my point,i wish that next year avushay will make his party,
all we have is only HOOP!
peace&love!
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Apr 18, 2005 23:58
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-18 23:48, dudu wrote:
another thing is that i totaly can't agree is the tought
that making BIG parties/raves is not o.k.,this is BULLSHIT!,
if this productions won't be
where you will see the BIG names???
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i agree to most of what u said dudu exept for this...
if the price of those big names is 120 nis plus 30 nis for a bottle of water all i can say is NO THANK YOU.
and that's exectly the reason i give so much respect for productions like dakini and the 3rd empire who are for me the real leaders of the scene...the underground scene anyway...
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 00:54
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didnt read everything here but can say its long time i know that local "underground" crowd will prefer cheaper party than party with rare abroad dj, simple as that.
Believe your soul ! |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 01:05
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People have strayed pretty far from the original scope of the thread, so I'll do a recap (without using this specific example but rather focusing on a more general scope of things):
a) Hat parties have a better vibe than bigger events, require less money to organize. No one really makes such an event and expects more than 200 people to come.
b) Commercial events require a lot to organize (and 1000+ people is a commercial event, so that makes events by Chemical Crew/Shaffel, Moksha, Gabi & The Twins and most recently 3rd Empire commercial in this consideration), a lot of fuss, money and so on, and hence, it is accepted that they publicize to a certain extent.
These two types of events are not the most common ones. The most common is the mid-range, with the price-tag being 70-100nis, with an international headliner and some of the more accepted names of the local scene as the core of it's lineup (and Yuli, you are very high on the list of accepted names).
These events suffer from the other forms of parties. Why? Because between the choice of going for vibe or going for cash, you can only be less decisive or to the point as one of the choices mentioned. When you're called Moksha, you can go and organize a party knowing you'll have 400+ people paying for sure, and can plan an event that will be financially sound. When you make a low-cost party, then you can make sure you won't lose too much, maybe even make a tiny profit.
This makes the mid-range parties the riskiest (financially), the toughest competition (a hat party is no competition for a commercial event and vice versa, but both are competition for the mid-range), and considering that these parties tend to have the highest percentage of non-paying dancers, the organizers are probably the least anonymous and therefor have more responsibility and a lot of other factors (example: publicity vs. hush-hush is something that most people fall hard on a few times, and I've seen good friends lose money because of these things), it's not just a big risk, but also requires meticulous planning, a lot of luck, and the right amount of publicity
Unfortunately, people who send out more SMS messages get a bigger crowd in most cases. An average person doesn't care about other people's profit, they care about their own. Expecting this attitude to lessen and not grow more extreme with time is naive.
Sure, Avishay may be a great guy, and I feel sorry for the fact that he lost money. But seriously - when you see how much cash is going around in big events, how can you blame a hat party for ruining it for others? It's like blaming construction workers for a doctor not making as much money as a politician.
In a true free market, each type of party would have it's own financial model in which a hat party, a regular party and a big commercial event will NOT eat at eachother's profits too much, organize a yearly meeting of all the heads of the scene in order to make sure that everyone goes forward with the times and not back, and to make sure everyone is satisfied with how things are going. But I doubt that people think in terms of creating harmony between financial models of different forms of parties according to locations and numbers of people. I'm not sure such a setup can exist in such a small scale as the Israeli outdoor prog-party scene. It'd be great if organizers would really talk with one another in order to make sure people harm eachother financially, but my guess is that they'd rather form a cartel and raise prices instead of making it best for everyone. Most party organizers given the powers to do what you ask for would abuse it. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 01:48
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@ Psygirl - I am very satisfied to see that you enjoy this endless debate, I come to check on it when I got tired from the studio so here I am once again...
@ Kaz - I pretty much agree with you GENERALLY SPEAKING except couple of pointsout of which I will stick to one ( Iam damn tired from writing in this thread just cant hold myself ):
01. For the 10th time for crying out loud no one is blamed, ok? I was wondering about pros and cons of certain way of putting things together - i.e how Hat Party goes together with very heavy Cellular promoting.
@ Dudu - I will quote u
Quote:
| PPL,you have to understend that the biggest problem is YOU!
to help us make yuli dream come true,
even small part of it,you have to MOVE YOUR ASS,
if we won't have your supporet,this all is for nothing! |
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Dudu is right!!
That is including the organizers and DJ's btw - I aint talking about perfect world or super symbiosis but we can be nicer then we are today.
@ Oran
Quote:
| and i think that it's happend because of basic mistake from the org's...sorry yuli but that party had a "break even" of "at least" 400 sold tickets much more than such a small production can bring even with such a great line up and promotion on isra.what i try to say that even if both dudo's and asi's parties was moved that party was still lost money. |
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Oran I have more reasons to say what I do than u think since I were there, and I was closely involved in what happened before. It's not that I try to save my friends ass here. I am talking about very simple situation where not completely anonymous individual makes great lineup, arranges amazing setup for party, the flyers are ready couple of months ahead, everything is tick tack, and then the shit happens.
@ Dan - man I love u since 1994 in Goa u just never noticed that. Take care and see u @ yer Fest.
Now I have to go to sleep I enjoyed coming around here to see that ppl do care after all. Most of them don't agree with me but it's alright I am used to it anyway. With time u will see I was right about everything.
Buenos noches
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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nahimoff
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
469
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 02:04
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 02:21
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-19 01:48, Yuli wrote:
( Iam damn tired from writing in this thread just cant hold myself ):
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o.k...so i guess this will be my last post here(yeh right)
yuli u have two diffrent points in this thread that have no connection between them what so ever.
the 1st one is the connection between the hat party and avishay's party(u already know my opinion)
the 2nd is that we(underground artists/dj's party org's and party goers) should all work and help each other in this case i agree with you on 100%.
but once again theres no connection between this two cases.
have a good night.
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Candy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
184
Posts :
2273
Posted : Apr 19, 2005 08:47
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1 thing I would like to add: An organization that makes its second party 1 year after the previous one and expects that a lot of crowd would come just because the line-up is filled with big names - well, it's being naive.
It's very easy to blame others for your own failures.
Majority is never right!
"Without music, life is meaningless."
-Friedrich Nietzsche |
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