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Please read this carefully - for those who care
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Cyber Punk
IsraTrance Team
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759
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 13:30
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C'mon, Yuli, organizing parties in the nature without the permissions of authorities is also illegal in the REAL WORLD.
So ?
  -=Lead System Designer=- |
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Candy
IsraTrance Full Member
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184
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Posted : Apr 17, 2005 13:37
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On 2005-04-17 13:01, Nomolos(Zenon Rec.) wrote:
FREE PARTIES ARE THE ESSENCE OF THE TRANCE SPIRIT .P.E.R.I.O.D. id rather see big names from over seas once in a while thru the big productions and have hat parties with local dj's every week! org' not loosing sounds good to me 
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I second this.
Hat parties is what trance spirit is all about. Besides, you know that the vibes in hat parties and totally different (much more energetic) than payable parties.
I myself almost don't go to any event, unless I can feel the vibes are going to be great, something which I knew would be at that particular hat party.
Yuli, you're acting as if the hat party was organized 2 meters from Avishay's party. Both parties were in totally opposite locations.
And again I repeat, if I had to choose between a payable party with big names and a hat party (which I feel would be good), I would choose the hat party everytime, and it's not because of the money.
Majority is never right!
"Without music, life is meaningless."
-Friedrich Nietzsche |
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Nomolos(Zenon Rec.)
IsraTrance Junior Member
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2027
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 13:57
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as i said i would rather see the "big names" once a month or 2 and have small hat parties all the time(some more local talents will def' have a chance to be exposed and have a say for sure!!!)now to the second thing.....i would like to ask any one who reads this thread to PM me if they feel i was agressive in my posts......is not saying AMEN to your ideas agressive?
Cheers.
p.s if any one has an alcoholic releative please dont think this "cheers" is the kind of agressive ones u hear at the bar....its a soft friendly one ending my post......
"....or is it???"
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Mat N
IsraTrance Senior Member
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272
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Posted : Apr 17, 2005 14:04
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it's sad to hear that avishay (which i consider as a friend) made so many efforts to get this party up with a perfect line-up and location, and in the end not too many people came.
however, i don't see why a hat party in the north of israel should be postponed or be cancelled due to a party in the desert?! |
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nahimoff
IsraTrance Full Member
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67
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469
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 14:29
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it is a very serious discussion and dilema here indeed and is a part of every organisers thoughts before any party is the date ok? who is the competition? etc.
I would like to point out a few points now without really taking sides here but just to point out some things you did not explain so far:
1. I think the most importent answer other than yuli and nomolos' dialogue up to here is "psy soldier"'s post:
"i know alot of good poeple that like prog music and had no idea about the dakini party"
Avishai is making a yearly event (once every year) in order to gather enough ppl and create a tradition you have to reach all the potential crowd you might have for a party of this kind in the south, its not enough to put a thread on the forum, you should know by now.., you have to have access to a good database of ppl related to this style, more over avishai had pixel in the morning which is also a "bigger" name and a israfullon guy to attract more crowd who relates to him, if not enough ppl came its lack of promotion in the right places, and lack of tradition so far.
Its the second dakini party if im correct in this concept and although ppl "should" go and hear Peter playing anytime he is around, they will not do it if they know about it retroactively.
another effect for the lack of tradition is naturally the difference between the hat parties and that one, asi's party in the north had as i heard around 400 ppl i can assure you 100% being from the north in origin, that 300 of those ppl anyway dont leave this area for parties unless its 3rd empire or a very very interesting moksha line up but we excluded those ones so..
dudu and patos hat party had around 120 ppl in it,even though Dudu is working with moksha so we might say he even made effort to keep his event small and not grow above sizes like a hat party should be, BUT any way I believe that generously speaking there would be aother 60 ppl who would go to avishai's party if that party didnt go on, that lives us with 160 ppl missing from avishais party, I dont know how many ppl were there but i quite believe that even with this number added it would still not be enough to cover the investment...
2. asi (north hat party) wanted me to play in his hat party (much before i even knew about avishais party) and I was busy that day, but had i not been busy i would probably play there even though i would love to hear peter,and consider avishai a much closer friend, but the point is that asi contacted me cause he was thinking of changing the date of his party to the week after, he finally kept the date but im sure not out of bad intentions or trying to screw it for avishai, hes not that kind of guy, as for dudu, again he is quite in the middle of the scene now, working with moksha, and running the Tao bar sessions which is probably the best thing that hapened to the tel aviv scene, in terms of a weekly meeting spot, and i know he worked really hard to limit his event to the first and second circle of friends only, again with no connection to avishai but to prevent problems for himself and keep it family like as a hat party should be..
3. Yuli, especially! after you saw the outcome of beckers event you should have accepted it already that THIS is not what the ppl are looking for today, I know I had the same exprience with Peter dijital actually! when we started our maccabi music factory line in TEL AVIV with pure progressive line ups and peter was the first dj we brought and we fel hard on our butt that night with around 120 ppl and NO possible competition at those days from our side on the other established thursday nights like dinamo dvash, and we lost loads of money but finally we understood it is only us to blame and not the competition! I know that you cannot compare a hat party to an organised event in terms of costs to the party goer: its between twice to 4 times more the cost for a desert payment party to a center hat party so in normal case it is a figure to take in concideration but again in this case its not outstanding cause the other potential ppl from other parties are not so big numbered, you should blame more the people who didnt go out at all this friday much more then the people who had a choice and made it! at least they somehoe supported the scene, the ones who didnt go out are the ones to blame if any about the lack of success of dakini party financially, and of course its useless to do so.
in conclusion all this discussion is quite irrelevant due to the sad fact mentioned by Karnaf-AL and the rest this is the face of the Israeli scene for better and for worse, its in the build up and had changes and evolved so much throughout the years so Im sure more ppl will try and more ppl will stop trying but there are always going to be parties of all kinds (a thing that doesnt exist in 90% of the rest of the world in this intensity btw), free, underground, commercial, expencive, hat parties, club parties, benefit parties and bullshit parties this is our scene ACCEPT IT! or LEAVE it! if you want to have the joy you must accept the suffering also cause its a part of your reality.
Hope i was not too apocalyptic and hope i didnt offend anyone most of the ppl writing here are close and less close friends and aqcuaintances Im only saying my own personal interpertations
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Nomolos(Zenon Rec.)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
2027
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 14:38
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Mat N
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
272
Posts :
1211
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 14:49
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Nadi mate, it's nice reading your post- i wish more people expressed themselves politely and to the point like u  but then again (as u said)- this is the face of the Israeli scene for better and for worse...
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 15:15
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@yuli:
i know u feel bad about dakini lost money and to tell u the truth i feel bad about it...
but the real question is why did it happen?
is it because of the hat party or any other so called prog party at the same day?or because the israeli crowd is lazzy?or dont know a good party when he see one?
the answer to this questions is no no and one more NO!
just b4 ill explain my opinion i want to say one thing:
im not the biggest expert in party making and i dont want to teach no one how to make parties...i just want to give some advice out of my experience cause i feel bad when good ppl lost money.
back to the issue(why not enough ppl came):
evry party orgenizer have a "power" of x or y ppl he can bring to a party...
ofcourse it can change from time to time(a holiday/luck etc...)
by reading dakinis reviews i can say that their power is more or less 200ppl...
(and now im getting to the point)this is a very common mistake that made by new party org's,and i ALMOST did that mistake myself(and by reading the promotion section i see more org's that gonna do the same mistake)
ppl u must understand,the fact that u had a 1st great party and u got yourself a good name ,and most important,that fact that u booked a great abroad dj WONT BRING U 600 PPL TO YOR PARTY!!!
ive seen so many production that "jumped to high" in their second party just because they had a great 1st one...
and to tell u the truth i dont understand how dakini that got so much profeesional help from ppl with years of experience didnt knew that...
(sorry for using that example)but even the 3rd empire didnt got to what they are today over night...it takes years of hard work...
bottom line:
evry party org. sould know his real power...and shouldnt invest so much money in party when he can not bring enough ppl to cover it...
if u want to bring abroad artist and u dont have the power try to cooperate with other productions..
that's it.
best of luck to all of us,and please check yourself b4 u blame others...
bom!
Always agressive never progressive. |
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OpuS
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
275
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 15:43
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Cyber Punk : I think Yuli meant to talk about Ethics, not about obeying the dry rules
Oran - you are quite right, I think just the same. But - I dont really know if Avishay meant to bring 600 ppl or just wanted to do something most quallity.
i'me very sympathise to what happened to Avishay (the same thing happened to me few years ago).
The conclusion I think is sort of what Oran say.
Follow the footsteps ...
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Ananda604
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
57
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1136
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 17:04
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I, personally, prefer to go to quality parties , I mean, if there's a free hat party and in the same day my favourite artist is playing in the desert , I know I'd go to the desert because its not something you see everyday ! I don't mind paying the 70 nis entrance.
the hat parties are pretty common and I could visit em any time, plus after previous experience of lack of security in hat parties, I truly do prefer to go someplace secured relatively...
so in such case of abroad d.j vs hat party, I'd choose to go to the party with the artist from abroad . two-three parties with great artist from abroad in the same night? that's another thread...
ciao
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
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1362
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 17:24
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-17 17:04, Ananda604 wrote:
I, personally, prefer to go to quality parties , I mean, if there's a free hat party and in the same day my favourite artist is playing in the desert , I know I'd go to the desert because its not something you see everyday ! I don't mind paying the 70 nis entrance.
the hat parties are pretty common and I could visit em any time
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u prefer to go to quality parties over hat parties???
wtf is that sepose to mean???i guess u call those big commercial parties with "underground" names quality parties(lol).
on the coming independence day one of those "quality" productions gonna bring my most wanted artist on earth and to tell u the truth theres no way im going to this kind of party not even to hear him.
i prefer a hat party on evry kind of party no matter who play there cause i prefer to support the ppl who make parties just for fun and 4 the ppl (try to scrool up and read what ppl wrote about the true essence of trance).
and btw if hat parties are so common ill be happy if u could pm when u hear on the next one...
Always agressive never progressive. |
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freakazoid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
334
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 20:02
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i really think two parties so far away have almost no crowd in common. yuli, you said you know half the djs would have gone to the desert if the y didn't play in the north, that might be true, but these guys are trance djs, the hardcore people who wouldn't mind the long distance drive to the desert, most people just won't do that (unless in a very very desert kind of mood), including me, and like most people here, i've been going to parties for some years now.
second, i think doing a big party a week before pesach is a huge mistake. most people who go to big parties, i'm sure stayed home waiting for the big parties that would come in the holiday weekends.
i also totally agree with nomolos about small cheap/hat parties being the soul of the trance scene, and oran's post.
last, i'd like to point out that asi had this party in his head for a while now, and didn't just yank the idea out of his head the same week, which means that this "talking between producers" thing should have worked both ways, i'm thinking it didn't because frankly, i'm guessing no one ever thought one had to do with the other.
what i would like to say is that you do have merit to what you are saying yuli. i thought about that a few times myself in the past, and there are times when you ask yourself "how come these guys didn't talk to each other and make two parties in two different weekends instead of the same one?"
but i wouldn't say it has anything to do with what kind of party it is, and everything to do with crowd and location. Super-teen extraordinaire Freakazoid! Freakazoid!
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fuzzyfly
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
138
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 20:21
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On 2005-04-17 12:18, Yuli wrote:
FuzzyFly u rest my case with what u said, since if the party in the north would cost u 70nis u would think twice about going there.
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Yuli I think you got exatly the oposite of what I ment...Money isn't my problem, I saw the line up I felt my heart and went with it 
I believe many here let their heart drag them to each party on that previus weekend
Strawberry Jam for the Booty Shakers |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 20:37
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On 2005-04-17 15:43, OpuS wrote:
Cyber Punk : I think Yuli meant to talk about Ethics, not about obeying the dry rules
Oran - you are quite right, I think just the same. But - I dont really know if Avishay meant to bring 600 ppl or just wanted to do something most quallity.
i'me very sympathise to what happened to Avishay (the same thing happened to me few years ago).
The conclusion I think is sort of what Oran say.
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Well at least one person here got my point.
I am talking about ETHICS here. We have relatively small scene here. If we wont support it we will die from boredom in my opinion at least it is. I see that as far as replies go on, I am vast minority and accept that. After all I get paid nicely playing my sets, and why should I give a F@#$ about the rest.
I am not Avishay spokesman btw, he has his own mouth, but I really dont think he thought about 600 ppl. 300 ppl sounded great to me when I thought about the party.
Last thing..
I red carefully what all of u have said here, and knowing this scene more years than any of you ( except Nadi ) and knowing the party biz better than any of you ( again old fox u know it better ) - please dont think that I try to egotrip on your behalf. But the knowlege of it definitely makes me aware of how ppl of this scene are two faced and very very hard to count on. How much the decision fall upon one joint, and interests and I wont say more.
I said what I had to say, I got the replies that I didn't think would be different and those who want to make our small community a better place will get my point. Those who don't care wont care even if a full trailer truck runs over them.
Have a good week once again
PS - did u find it odd that Perfect Stranger is also Post Scriptum?
I am making parties now and then. Ppl used to say I make good ones. But I really dont like to give away my money - it's kinda stupid. After all we live from it. If I stop making parties, I guess it's a certain loss for those that would enjoy them and it is you ( and me ). I don't see myself making another party unless I see that the spirit changes. If we would be more unite as a community, I wouldn't come to this decision.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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huga_generation
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
917
Posted : Apr 17, 2005 20:43
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to this thread all i have to say is: "Avishay,i'm really sorry that your party didnt went well
nadi said the most for me i gues
yuli ...pm:)
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