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Trance Forum » » Forum  Greece - NEVERLAND // BUTTERFLY DANCE FESTIVAL // GREECE // 24th,25th,26th August 2007
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NEVERLAND // BUTTERFLY DANCE FESTIVAL // GREECE // 24th,25th,26th August 2007

PSYCHEDELICA-X


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  230
Posted : Sep 2, 2007 19:07
Quote:

On 2007-09-02 03:14, elfish wrote:
We are talking about organizing for a month a festival in one place (everything paid plus 30 people working for it) and after what happened organizing everything (as possible something like that is in 20 hours) again from the start and paying again the same people for the same job.
Appart from that at least one third (1/3) of the people didn't pay entrance with all that confusion and 10 Djs didn't come but all the others did and were paid.
The thing costed at least 200.000 Euros, count everything again and then speak about gain.
And i would like that each one of you can find a similar situation in which the organizers after all that shit didn't cancell everything.
The Neverland Team on the opposite tried their best not to let all these people down.
Dear friend p(S)y(C)h(O) I am talking about all the others who have never taken any risk in their lives appart from going to a festival and not having a propper shower. Ask tomorrow what the cost for such a festival is and let me know if the gain is really so big when they blow your project the last minute.
I want people to make partys and festivals in Greece, as many as possible, that's the only reason I am telling everything.
To be objective is not so hard, but a person must have survived a disaster to understand something like that.
Have a nice enening everrybody.








so if some people didnt pay the ones we have paid should have our money back
fair and square
elfish


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  16
Posted : Sep 2, 2007 22:22
Fairnes in your planet is a strange thing my friend.
If 100 people rape one, I should rape him also... that's how sounds what you say. Just think that you could be the raped one, then tell me fair and square would you still like it?????

uforica025
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  514
Posted : Sep 2, 2007 22:47
Quote:

On 2007-09-02 19:07, PSYCHEDELICA-X wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-09-02 03:14, elfish wrote:
We are talking about organizing for a month a festival in one place (everything paid plus 30 people working for it) and after what happened organizing everything (as possible something like that is in 20 hours) again from the start and paying again the same people for the same job.
Appart from that at least one third (1/3) of the people didn't pay entrance with all that confusion and 10 Djs didn't come but all the others did and were paid.
The thing costed at least 200.000 Euros, count everything again and then speak about gain.
And i would like that each one of you can find a similar situation in which the organizers after all that shit didn't cancell everything.
The Neverland Team on the opposite tried their best not to let all these people down.
Dear friend p(S)y(C)h(O) I am talking about all the others who have never taken any risk in their lives appart from going to a festival and not having a propper shower. Ask tomorrow what the cost for such a festival is and let me know if the gain is really so big when they blow your project the last minute.
I want people to make partys and festivals in Greece, as many as possible, that's the only reason I am telling everything.
To be objective is not so hard, but a person must have survived a disaster to understand something like that.
Have a nice enening everrybody.








so if some people didn't pay the ones we have paid should have our money back
fair and square



because i get bored and sick to listen all those days all this bullshits from all you "kagoures",
the only thing i want to say is that the organizers gave all their power to be this festival true, and relocate the most important things in the new location in few hours...for the people who don't know, i can tell that the organizers had pressed the local authorities to not cancel the fest, but found a new place for it, thing that FIRST TIME happens maybe worldwide...think a little bit what happens to BIIIG (!!) Shamanik festival...

As about the artists who did'nt came, was bad for them, and not for us i think...
is not the first time which artists did not comes even 'cause some mesh happens with the flights or the tickets, even 'cause had change their opinion at the last time and after they try to find some "logical" reasons for explanation.
And off course in that case, why all of us believe the artists all the times and not even once the organizers??
can anybody answer me on this please?
why we think that the artists are "saints" and they don't do such things??
I have several personal cases to say about the opposite but it will be off topic...

i think that Neverland team had done their best to re-organize the whole festival in few hours and what we give them back? shit on their face?? that is bad guys, that is bad...

off course many things could be better, but think also a little bit the stress and the fatigue of the organizers, put a little your selfs in their position and then u can talk about. but we greeks, as people said, we want "kai ti pita olokliri kai to skylo xortato"


and yes, it's very funny to listen trancers talking for money...i suppose all of you they've been happy to not pay at the new location,
or if the organizers said something like " we sorry for the mess, now the festival is free" and maybe for that reason they had running fast there, before everybody, for saving check-in...

but i can say that even in small parties that they don't have any entrance and was just for fun, and the organizers sometimes ask from the people to give them some changes to collect money for paying for the sound etc, NOBODY (or just a few...) had put his hands in his pockets, but everybody had money for buying the drugs he like to use(!!?)...
it' pathetic guys...
it's for laughing and crying together...

wake up people, this "misery" we have, it makes big harm to us, to our reputation, to the whole trance movement in greece...

have a nice evening
LNE78poi


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  21
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 01:34
In the local press, there was this figure mentioned, "Mr. Makis" who had promised the organisers to help them out with the bureaucracy, get the appropriate documentation for them, and even supplied them with advertising material. This person had no authority whatsoever; "special-council-to-the-mayor", sound like a "back-scratcher-to-the-mayor" to me. Someone who's around to kiss some arses for his own interest and definetely not a person to trust. Not to mention that this person obviously saw this festival as an opportunity to promote himself.
But when the local council and police and forest rangers and everyone gathered to talk, that man or anyone else who was supposed to be helpful, let the organizers on their own to defend for themselves. And it seemed that they were pretending not to have anything to do with it when the whole think started going bad.
Obviously, the organisers have been screwed up by that person "Mr. Makis" who let them down in such a way.
So, there are some questions that need to be answered here. Who is this man, and why the organizers chose to have him as a middle man instead of going through the bureaucracy on their own (and probably have their applications rejected by the local authorities)?
If ppl are pissed off and need to sue someone, if this the right person to go after, this should be known.
Or is it that the organizers have this "bad greek mentality" that everyone in here is so far beyond from? Is it that they thought they found an easy way to have their job done nice and quick and thus relied upon a charlatan? This would be very naive of them, it is called "arpa kolla" and is not really professional.
So the question here to be answered is, under which conditions and terms this man was chosen to be the middle man in the negotiations of the organisers with the greek state? Why and into what extend this man is responsible for this mess?
I think that needs to be answered in order to be fair to the organisers and the people who suffered from this situation too.           I'm glad mushrooms are illegal.Once I took,you know what happened?I laid in a field of green grass for 4 hours, going, 'My God, I love everything.' This is a hazard to our country, how are we going to sell weapons if we realize we are all one?" Bill Hicks
noa_


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  340
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 04:48
If there was no legal paper with stamps and signatures, then they shouldn't attempt of making a fest! What the organisers were thinking? Making a fest of 200.000euro without having the insurance that the place is legally "given" to them from the authorities!?!? If they had this f****** paper, now, after this disaster they would be able to ask for refunds from the local mayor or anyone else who had signed it! They would be able to refund theirselves and people attended the effort!
Authorities done nothing wrong if the organisers hadnt permission to use the place! Dont forget that whole Greece was burning during the days of fest... Next time get a legal permission and publish this paper! You would be covered if you had it in your hands... You cannot trust mr Makis....
PartyBitch


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  89
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 05:46
Quote:

On 2007-09-03 04:48, noa_ wrote:

Next time get a legal permission and publish this paper!




I think this is the first thing someone has to do when organizing such a big event..           Dance With me..!
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  296
Posts :  6194
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 16:30
Please dont mention numbers such as 200.000 euros cause its really funny numbers for those who know.

200.000 euros means that the festival would need around 2500-3000 tickets just to break even lol.

Apart from that many posts are interesting here and some others are very strange indeed,would like to participate and share my thoughts and information that i know from artists and people that where there but i choose to stay out of the main discussion because things are very heated at the moment plus the organisers havent yet made their official statement.

Just three points from my side.

A)The greek authorities dont much like such events taking place in our country and one has to have very big connections before making such an attempt to organise a big festival.Unfortunately the organisers obviously didnt have these connections and probably they didnt even have a written permission to host the event in the original location.

B)Although things got very complicated the organisers deserve some praise for trying to find a solution and keep the people as happy as possible.Its a pity that things turned out badly for them because they had put a lot of effort the previous years to create and develop their festival and now everything got destroyed because of wrong organisation handlings and obstacles from the authorities,real pitty indeed.

C)The organisers must very soon come up with an official explanation and answer concerning what happened there,it will be very good for them and the people and artists that where there.           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
AN8RWPOS


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  268
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 17:33
first of all i waz lucky enough to cancel my trip there in the last minute.. but here iz how the whole thing loox to me after talkin with people that did go (and have talked with the organizerz azwell) and by reading theze posts.

i think someone had a wrong impression of how a muzik festival iz organized LEGALY in Greece. i emphasize legaly, because it means some thingz HAVE to be done a certain way, otherwize you WILL have LEGAL PROBLEMZ. i dont know about MrMitsos and i dont care about any MrMitsos. Az far az i know MrMitsos did not prezent himself anywhere az an organizer.
..and about the festival movin to another location, soundz to me like a desperate attempt to raize some money in order to pay for the failure..
and before any attacks begin on my post.. i say again.. i waz "out of the dance" (e3w apo ton xwro..) and my opinion iz based on the posts in here and a couple of private talks with people that "danced"...
          -----------------------------------------
it's ON !!
-----------------------------------------
homoSpNs


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  47
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 19:21
i cant understand smthn in here:

there are ppl in here that 4 some reason say that money should not be the problem... and about hippies... and many other stuff about organizers and well done for their effort...

ok then,my friends i dont like money either...
but evryone around me do. so i work to make money because are important to live a nice nd healthy life.

also i spend them like i dont care when the reason is living my life (a fest)

i spend about 2500 euro 4 going full moon - vuuv
and i didnt care because for me there was a purpose(skopos) im not sure if i wrote it correct,
and i would done it again.

but north friends mostly:
what about driving 7 hours plus 1 and a half hour for that bloody road in pangeo,
spending a lot money for gas, service , plus (anarthseis) for the car plus not a festival in its supposed place and a 90 or 70 if were lucky at door ticket and many others for just hearing 2 or 3 artist of 8 who you actually went there?

should i also say like YOU
thats ok,"WELL DONE" to the orginizers that after the difficulties they get throught did the "festival" wich actually was a party which ticket price didnt worth more than 40 or 50 euros including not coming from another town???????

________________________________
[ we should not see the glass half empty )
[ but seeing it full is just an illusion |
[ in which u have choose to live in )
[ because you cant stand the truth. |
'-----------------------------------------------' HOMOSPNS
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  296
Posts :  6194
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 19:40
Quote:

On 2007-09-03 19:21, homoSpNs wrote:
i spend about 2500 euro 4 going full moon - vuuv



I guess you only fly business class right?           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
homoSpNs


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  47
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 20:24
no mr DETOX.

i booked my tickets 2 months ago of my flight with easyjet nd they cost me about 100 euros.
and im not a business man. i work hard.
harder than you sitting all day on your pc nd crtisiz evrything in any forum.(5088 posts)

ok detox,go get a life and find a real job.

sorry from evryone in this forum getting out of topic i just dont stund ppl who attack in peresonal in public.

DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  296
Posts :  6194
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 21:09
Have you ever heard the term sense of humour?Obviously not i guess.

By the way thanks for the interest but i already got a morning job plus i am studying plus i am running a label plus i am into artists management plus many other things including ofcourse my 5000 posts in this forum after being a member of it for more than 8-9 years.

Ofcourse my activities are nothing compared to your hard work and adventurous life.I guess your full name is Indiana Jones right?Nuh he is American while you are Canadian,how did i miss that in the first place?

P.S If you only spend 100 euros on your flight tickets then i dont even dare to ask where you spend the rest 2400 euros....
          Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
movek
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  27
Posts :  640
Posted : Sep 3, 2007 23:52
this is going far offtopic ..
i wasn't there
but just from reading all these
to me its clear
the organizers made only one big mistake
..at friday when the authorities deside not give permission ..
they had to cancel the festival


They tried to re-built it in one day ..
even they knew its imposible

maybe just to gain whataever they could from the tickets//
maybe cause they gone to far to quit//
only they know

but doing this re-construct event ..
without the artists who were on the flyer
and without the facilities for a fest
they lost money and reputation
and now so many people get ungry just hearing the word Neverland           Aει ο θεος ο μεγας γεωμετρει το συμπαν = 3,1415926
elfish


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  16
Posted : Sep 4, 2007 01:56
There was a permission with stamps
and signatures and everything else.
The permission was about a 3 day musical-cultural event.
The only things not mentioned were the camping and how big the sound system was going to be.
I saw this very paper myself.

The fact is that who ever signed this paper
(April 2007 was the date on it)
didn't ask permission from anyone else
and didn't even mention it to other authorities.

Allthough the days that I was on the mountain
I saw police cars,
forest police jeeps and firemen
coming upthere and speaking with the organizers.

when everything collapsed
only a fireman admitted
that they were allmost everyday there,
all the others had an alzcheimer crisis or amnesia.

Personally I agreed that the festival should take place no matter what,
even the half of it in another place(show must go on).

Because local authorities tried to terorize everybody by giving them unsigned papers!!!
in which there was wtitten that every camper should leave or else be arrested,
and it was obvious that something trendy and glamourous would never find such obstacles.

After a years preparation and a month of hard work nobody could accept this,
not even us who were not directly involned with the fest.

It was about my right to make different choises,
to be in the mountains,
to dance with this music,
to wear multicolor clothes
and not accepting all the shit that they are giving me from their brainwash machine.

I said it again that I maybe am too romantic,
but this is how I experienced everything.
Goodnight.

Am Pws


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  73
Posted : Sep 4, 2007 08:59
hey Elfish i think you know to much and we must kill you
          But vibes
Trance Forum » » Forum  Greece - NEVERLAND // BUTTERFLY DANCE FESTIVAL // GREECE // 24th,25th,26th August 2007
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