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Myopic novices and the art of their music (PSYTRANCE)
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auralserenity
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
63
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 09:34
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I own a sound Studio, was thinking of setting up a label, but things are not materializing the way they should have. But I'm still not giving up. |
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 11:33
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So,
Is it true that all the psy trance producers are nothing but amateurs who are chasing the glamor of being called a genius in music production, and fooling themselves of the reality that all their attempts are futile?
Are they a bunch of myopic novices who cant look beyond their limited senses and fail to realize that days of psytrance are over?
~ How about you?
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NO,
no and no.
i can't speak for psy-producers as a whole but,
i for one, enjoy expressing my psychedelic madness by producing some psychedelic music, trance or other. keeps me busy + it is somewhat therapeutic.
If listeners enjoy it then it is a bonus i can make someone happy
not for glamour(what glamour) or to impress you or bukboy..
someday soon i'll release some art that you may, or may not find amusing. its still nice to share.
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 12:30
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On 2010-01-19 16:00:48, auralserenity wrote:
The thread, http://forum.isratrance.com/book-reviews-and-or-advice/ , was a bout books but somehow ended up being a kind of playground for criticism on psy trance lovers(amateurs) and their music(psytrance). Hence I decided to start a new thread on the same subject.
So,
Is it true that all the psy trance producers are nothing but amateurs who are chasing the glamor of being called a genius in music production, and fooling themselves of the reality that all their attempts are futile?
Are they a bunch of myopic novices who cant look beyond their limited senses and fail to realize that days of psytrance are over?
Well, I personally would agree to this to some extent, but cant consider it a universal fact.
~ How about you?
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i understand your thoughts. it's true that the days of psytrance are not the best, but
what to this and for your saying about all psytracne producers are amateurs?
i think psytrance it's sophisticated music that's harder to produce than most of other electronic genres.
to make people dance like crazy. and to give them nice psychedelic experience on the dancefloor is not easy. all the synthesis at psytrance is at the best level of all music genres. and it's much complicated to mix 15 chanells how playing at the same time than mix 5 chanells.
but if somebody seeking for making money from producing music i'm not sure that's psytrance is good option now. because the big days of psytrance are over, and most people like to hear simple music, and not complicated idea with complictated sounds from crazy people with complicated minds, like us... |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 12:47
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On 2010-01-19 16:00:48, auralserenity wrote:
The thread, http://forum.isratrance.com/book-reviews-and-or-advice/ , was a bout books but somehow ended up being a kind of playground for criticism on psy trance lovers(amateurs) and their music(psytrance). Hence I decided to start a new thread on the same subject.
So,
Is it true that all the psy trance producers are nothing but amateurs who are chasing the glamor of being called a genius in music production, and fooling themselves of the reality that all their attempts are futile?
Are they a bunch of myopic novices who cant look beyond their limited senses and fail to realize that days of psytrance are over?
Well, I personally would agree to this to some extent, but cant consider it a universal fact.
~ How about you?
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Ehm... well no because I like psy trance and I like making psy trance.
I can't see what else matters.
Seriously though, a lot of the trance that has been coming out in the last 12 months is up there with the greats.
For me personally 92-95 was great. Then 99-02
for that transition between the trancey and techy stuff. These days there's also a lot of stuff that's very interesting in terms of evolution. All be it not as much a social evolution as the trance of the past has caused.
I guess if you don't appreciate modern trance then you're probably the last folk to ask about it.
Now as for being novices, everyone has to start somewhere.
Are you ok? |
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 17:31
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voidstar
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
16
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 18:19
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On 2010-01-20 09:04, bukboy wrote:
What happened is that I realised that music is an evolved - arbitrarily created phenomenon that just gave us an advantage and helped us grow/expand/evolve on a species level, but that doesnt change the basic fact that our nature is "monkeys bouncing to tribal beats" and music manipulates our basic emotions. Once I understood how music works, and how it manipulates emotions, I became acutely aware of how predictable music is and I am, I also saw that I am just a puppet subjected to tricks that make me feel. I felt so powerless and limited in my nature. |
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The fact that we're just animals driven by animal instincts and desires isn't exactly a revelation (well maybe not unless you're an extreme religious zealot), you're not exactly the only one who's realised that. In fact I'd be supprised if there's anyone on this forum who hasn't. The difference is that most people embrace that fact, and if a tune appeals to your base instinct to jump up and down and flap your arms around like a monkey then that's what we're gonna do and we'll bloody well enjoy doing it. I dont see why you feel the need to reject your humanity like its a dissapointment or an embarrassment. I also dont see why you feel disempowered by figuring out how to trigger these positive primal emotions in yourself and others, surely it should be quite the opposite.
If you're going to reject music because it appeals to your base animalism, then why not reject everything else too because you're never going to get away from that. I mean doing an MBA and entering business isn't exactly acheiving a greater purpose beyond your base insticts. Its quite a greedy proffesion really, aimed almost solely at the acquisition of money. And lets face it, we only desire money because it appeals to our basic survival instinct and the animalistic desire to surround ourself in trinkets in order that we might attract a better specimin of the opposite sex to give our genetic makeup the maximum chance of survival.
I think you need to get down of your mountain and join the rest of us monkeys in the jungle. You'll be happier for it. |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 18:43
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thread fail.
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Is it true that all the psy trance producers are nothing but amateurs who are chasing the glamor of being called a genius in music production, and fooling themselves of the reality that all their attempts are futile? |
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what constitutes a 'professional'?
i bet if you walked into the nearest concert hall you'd find 100 orchestral players. i bet all of them would have instrumental skills that very few of us could match. and i bet very few of them have written, distributed or publicly played much of their own original music. what do you value - technical skills? in which case, can you really argue that a top-level producer hasn't gained professional or technical skills over and above the 'novice'? really?
more importantly - what in holy fuck's name does professionalism have to do with art?
it seems to me that your post could have been levelled at ANY musical genre. guess what - the vast majority of punk bands will never make it, will never release anything, will never do anything which you judge to be a success. neither will most rappers. or tenors. or saxophonists. or jazz bands.
and i'd also be willing to wager that a lot of house DJs, rock guitarists and film scorers are also doing it 'to chase the glamour'. or to get girls. or to feel valid. or to express themselves. what does it matter?
and what separates psychedelic trance from any other niche genre?
amateurism is an irrelevance. mo tucker couldn't play the drums but the velvet underground are one of the best bands of all time. this is music. what does it sound like? everything else is secondary.
futility is an irrelevance. a lot of art is not appreciated in its time. and very few musicians happen to invent a cure for cancer. so ultimately it doesn't matter whether you play the harp or you play the arp 
Quote:
| Are they a bunch of myopic novices who cant look beyond their limited senses and fail to realize that days of psytrance are over? |
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firstly, we're all learning, all the time. anyone who has given up learning has given up on something larger.
secondly, why would any one group's 'senses' be any more or less limited than another?
thirdly, who gave you the power to decide when a music genre is 'over'?
p.s. it's possible to study at a high level and keep making music  http://www.myspace.com/aeonaeon |
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nyama
Nyama
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
745
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 18:57
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mods, i think this can be closed now as aeon just nailed the whole thing down to the core
great post dude!
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www.catawampus-records.co.uk |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:03
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auralserenity
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
63
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:21
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Hi 'soulfood', 'piXan', 'dj chichke' and '*eLliSDee*' , first and foremost- thanx for showing concern, second- my being okay is an ambiguity, and finally third- I started my involvement in the scene with psychedelic as my die-hard style. But sooner I was to evolve into a different scene, called downtempo. I started loving the entire world of electronic music. Psy gave me the knowledge and dope that I'll always be thankful to. Its just this that I was truly amazed by 'bukboy', who has been producing good psy earlier and now blatantly talk about its demise. I too love psy, and truly speaking I strongly believe 'bukboy' also love it really- or else those synth notes wouldnt have been his choice in his music, five years back.
http://www.dance-tunes.com/#home/artist/37442/hyperboreans
So... I am truly sad with this fact that made 'bukboy' think the way he does. Truly guys, think with a mind not driven by emotions, today populance of psy producers is huge and almost ninety percent of them make pathetic jumble of sequences, overcompress everything, talk about equalizers and filters, and dont know the difference between sine and saw. This statement might be wrong, might not be agreed by many; But I'm trying to make a point here. And my point is that whole approach by few biased novices(they are not few) might not give them, what they expect as their vision is blurred by their own love for the genre.
I said this earlier and am saying it again, I love music in any shape till it remain surprising me with its awe. Tell me what awe is their when some indie artist produces something after copying all the samples from internet, for worse, god forbid, if they ever think of designing one without knowing where C-minor lies on the keyboard, or building the entire track by just applying the presets. Its a huge list guys, and figuring out such flaws is not my intention through this thread. Its the fundamental approach of few(again they are not few) that is to be blamed.
Guys even after the creation of moog synth and setting up of the democratisation of the music sets few limitations- folks look for the easy way out, and for their utter disappointment there is none. NO EASY WAY OUT.
As 'dj chichke' mentioned in this thread that psytrance is one of the toughest genre, I would say that is so true, but that is not the way most of the producers go about it.
And 'dj chichke', just to remind you that on the very first post I said that I dont consider all this as a universal fact. Hence all this doesnt apply to all the producers. I still listen to psytrance and sometimes weave few melodies or maybe entire track in the same genre. But I dont keep the things, that I love, on my nerve ending.
Its sad but its true that we are witnessing either the transformation of psy genre(maybe a disfiguration), or a very sad demise of it.
I dont intend to hurt your emotions but let me know if you do not find majority of people looking for tricks that one can perform to mix a pro psytrance music. When you talk about synthesis or mathematics of it or improvisation of melody or maybe flair in the music fundamentals, they start blabbering about books like and authors like Bob Katz and Michael Hewitt and Rick Snoman; Or for worse some of them talk about the videos on youtube for 'how to do' stuff, when the major chunk on youtube surrounds FL studio kind of software. I'm not saying its a bad software, but do this for practical and then see- Find a diehard fan of FL studio and Psytrance(there are many) and ask them how much did they earn out of this piece of software. Same can apply for Cubase or Logic, but that is only because most of those FL studio users have migrated to cubase. And they still do not understand music from its substratum. How many FL studio users would refer you to Bach's immaculate compositions when you talk about construction of basslines.
Still, I truly thank you for sharing your views. But guys I'm not an antichrist in psy-religion, So lets start talking on the similar wavelength now. |
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auralserenity
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
63
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:39
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Wow, 'aeon', you must be dreaming of 'groupies by your both sides and crowd going nuts over you for the awesome trance that you performed for them', in your most memorable dreams. But my dear friend aren't you awake sometimes and bored of the reality and finally succumbed to mind numbing synthetic so that similar buzz can take over again.
Music is tough industry. But when you are truly a musician, then it should really hurt if you fail.
You mentioned 'Maureen Tucker', when you should have seen how many of them are around you. And also check the career history of Moe here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maureen_Tucker
She was just different than usual.
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:45
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On 2010-01-20 08:34, bukboy wrote:
So then I understand what the parties are, a platform for demonstrating the amateurs having fun on sequencers.
Never gonna pay again.
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Bukboy each time when I say yes to an invitement I get payd and it is correct - in my almost dead underground scene and my music which I make for more than 2 decades.
Lots of my old colleagues of the very first days are well known prominents meanwhile ,even for long in germany.
I was shocked how the music of them changed (from high art to high comercial "art")and I understand they gained what they want.
Nevertheless in my opinion if there is nowhere an audible fun or heart or soul in your work it is not art - maybe it is professional I dont know exactly.That is my no name opinion about this.Peace
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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auralserenity
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
63
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:46
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And also 'aeon' about learning, I fully agree with you. But friend, thats exactly what my and 'bukboys' point was.
Is it learning when you are trying to find a black cat in a dark room which is not there in the room at all? I mean looking for a pandora's box of secrets of mixing that makes everything too goddamn easy to understand and implement.
You gotta be kidding me to the utmost degree of hilarity. |
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
478
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:48
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how many times do we have to go over psytrance being dead here?
because it doesn't matter at all. it's still fun to some people, and some people are still going to play it at parties and make it.
professional tracks? ok, they have more money for pretty gear and pro friends to master it for free. who cares? i like the music, and i like to make the music. if it's dead, great. means less people at my parties to annoy me. |
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Obelizk
Amoeba
Started Topics :
115
Posts :
836
Posted : Jan 20, 2010 19:51
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On 2010-01-20 09:04, auralserenity wrote:
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On 2010-01-20 08:34, bukboy wrote:
So then I understand what the parties are, a platform for demonstrating the amateurs having fun on sequencers.
Never gonna pay again.
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LOL
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say one day it will pay. There's a lot of great psytrance music. I don't think populations have grasped how great it is yet. It was 'big' before, but not really huge. I think psytrance is going to play a big part as 'music of the future,' with the new technologies coming out every year that keep making it easier to make insane, disorienting sounds, and awesomeness.
I see clubs of the future playing psytrance, raves at night in major cities. You could say that's naive, but who knows. Especially with the community of people that make psytrance and listen to it. There's a lot of collaboration that leads to creative ideas and innovation.
www.musicproductionnatural.com || www.facebook.com/djamoeba | facebook page |
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