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Musician or Software expert?
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Vicky
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
709
Posted : May 28, 2008 20:24:59
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Hi guys,
This point keeps bugging me and this has come from my observation over the years.
Many artists today are not 'musicians' but they definitely have know how to use music making softwares.
I mean, I have seen ppl who do not have a great sense of music, but they know how a track is structured in terms of intro, melody, breaks, etc
they keep playing with the software to 'discover' the apt sound / tune rather than making, creating the tune, base line, kicks, etc wats in their mind..
they keep doing this trial and error till the time they have all these pieces which can be patched together and make a track.. they may spend a considerable time to then get the track to a respectable level, but the whole foundation of the track was trial and error.
They would keep doing this till the time they really master the software and can make good tracks in much lesser time and the sounds also keep getting tighter and better day by day with practice. (respect the efforts here)
But still at the end they are not able to play any musical instrument (i consider this important bcoz one has to know the basics of music in terms of notes and scales)
they can make some tracks which are released, and enjoyed by all.
what would you call them?
mastering the music or mastering the software?
  ------------------------------------
Beyond Logic!
Euphoric Meditation n' Beyond...
vicky@beyondlogic.net
http://www.beyondlogic.net/
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pr0fane
Moderator
Started Topics :
418
Posts :
3816
Posted : May 28, 2008 20:59
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What's important is whether the music is good or not.
If a 15 year old geek with a PC and Cubase can make a better track than a 30 year old experienced musician with a $100.000 studio, I would still prefer the best track. DJ pr0fane (Iboga Records) | Multiphase
www.sunrisesupplies.com | www.iboga.dk | www.soundcloud.com/pr0fane |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : May 28, 2008 21:14
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Quote:
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On 2008-05-28 20:59, pr0fane wrote:
What's important is whether the music is good or not.
If a 15 year old geek with a PC and Cubase can make a better track than a 30 year old experienced musician with a $100.000 studio, I would still prefer the best track.
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You either have it inside you or not....if are an old experienced musician with a $100.000 studio you either are "naturally" good or your worked hard to became one (talent needs a lot of hard work to come around...most of the times)....but there is a point here you mentioned, the PC allows people with talent and little knowledge in music to create good music, but also you have to master and, maybe, enjoy the PC or Mac working envirement (being a computer geek helps a lot)...
But i think you Vicky have touched a sensitive point...good one 
For my personnal experience i can say that i've been playing and learning music since young age but now for the past 3 months i've been very focused on my home studio based on a PC and VSTI and Midi Keys and so on...and not being a computer "geek" (possesing knowledge and the "pacience to sove problems in PC) has been a somewhat barrier for me...a bit of a turn-off!!!! I still spend a lot of time lost in non-musical questions But im not quiting, eheheheh....
So partialy i agree with you but also i've met(and heard) a lot of gifted musicians who have the PC/MAC as their instrument. And if a computer is a good way to bring talent out, well thats only good...
Love&Light
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : May 28, 2008 21:51
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The problem is when they dont create something of their own inspiration, and just copy the style of others and the public accepted it very gratefully, then its when all this started to suck |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : May 28, 2008 22:00
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Very good point to bring up Vicky.
I have found from my experience, I am more of an old school recording and mix engineer, that very few people seem to be great at both the technical and musical aspects. This topic came up while I was doing my BA with fellow students. I only met one person, to this date, who impressed in both areas.
Technology had made it easier for a single person to produce music......as a result we have a bigger pool of music to choose from.....for me this can mean it takes longer to find the good stuff.....so it has its ups and downs.
I think taking opportunities to collaborate is a really great think to do......ying/yang kinda thing.....and sometimes synergistic results are achieved.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Psytracked
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
424
Posted : May 28, 2008 22:13
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Quote:
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On 2008-05-28 21:51, Login wrote:
The problem is when they dont create something of their own inspiration, and just copy the style of others and the public accepted it very gratefully, then its when all this started to suck
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I agree to a point...but I think that thats perhaps an oversimplified view. Something acts as a catalyst. All artists are influenced by others.
I remember a guy who was really into breaks, from 95 onwards. He played me some of his favorites tunes. I then pulled out the vinyl I had which I could tell had been sampled and rather meanly played them to him.......
For him, he didn't know the source of the samples/inspiration so he just though those artists were great and original. For me I wasn't as impressed as it was so obvious.
But.......who's to say that someone cant pull that stunt on some of my favourite tracks?.....well they have....lol.
I have followed many different genres of dance over the years, some make feel much shame...lol,......but I have noticed that one genre nicks riffs from another etc. The person into that genre, but not the other, won't know. Where someone who has listened to many genres may spot the blatant rip off.
If you take from the same genre as you produce then you will probably get pulled up on it.....that seems to be how it goes.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/ |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : May 28, 2008 22:33
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i think software is the biggest bliss to musician
u dont need 100,000$ studio to create best sounding track!
about playing an instruments its not that important altho i do play some.. once u realy do it in midi software.. all matter is your vision and technic , vision first offcourse
with all that i cant say that some of the cooler sounds in history made by trial error trial success method. even bands work that way hey , they try one rythm with this and then with that and then decide what they like best , and their song get better with time , as well their chimestry etc.
in the end , the final result is what counts (cheating is too obvious , copy style is boring since we hear it allready b4) |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : May 28, 2008 23:40
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Around 8-9 years ago when i was relatively new to trance music and when great music was still getting released i woke up one day and i said to myself that i also wanted to create my own music.
First i went to a piano teacher and we spoke about me starting attending some lessons so i could learn the basics about music and to learn notes and reading music patterns and slowly but steadily to start learning playing the piano which until today i consider as a fantastic instrument and still remains one of my dreams to study the specific instrument.
Second thing i did was visiting a huge music store that had a special section about synths and music programs where i had a long long discussion with the head of the department where i explained him what i wanted to do and what kind of music i wanted to create and he adviced me to buy the proper computer with the proper programs (cubase was the major software at that time) plus some hardware like a sample machine and ofcourse a synth which if i remember correctly it was a yellow Waldorf Q plus a good pair of monitors.He also told me that in order to learn how to use properly Cubase it would be wise to attend some Cubase classes which the store would offer me for free for one whole year if i buyed all the equipment from them.
Back in those days that was a major investment that only a few people could afford and thats why when i spoke about this with my father he told me to get serious and not spend my money on music.Unfortunately or not i followed his advice and i never proceeded with that dream of mine because i thought that i was rushing a lot and i shouldnt spend very big bucks on something that i might get bored with in just a month.
In our days everyone can get a great computer and a good pair of monitors with just 2000 euros and start downloading for free music software and start making "music" with them.
I always believed that people first should learn how to walk (study music) and then learn how to run (create music).Unfortunately in my humble opinion not many people share the same thoughts with me.
If more people first studied music for a year or two and then decided to sit down and turn on the computer in order to create their own tunes then todays psy trance would be great music and not a bunch of copy paste shit.
Thats just me anyway.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : May 29, 2008 00:02
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Great topic and nicely presented.
For me, I've seen far too many examples of artists who produce music I like who have no musical experience.
But what they do have is an ear.
Having a musical ear but no formal music training does work.
Not just in psytrance but in rock music (or any music). I tried to teach my friend to play guitar but he insisted on making up his own discordant chords which sounded like cacophony, with odd strumming. He continued in this way and developed a unique sound and later formed a band who did quite well in the underground scene, touring the world and who kurt cobain named his favorite band.
So, music is in the ear first, I think.
For me, I have the same problem with ellon. I grew up with music, in a musical family, have played all instruments in numerous bands in my life, but I just cannot sit for more than two hours in front of a computer and try to figure out how to create music with it. Painful process and so time consuming.
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : May 29, 2008 02:52
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Well the difference between a 15 years old geek and a 30 years old experienced musician with 100.000 Euro studio is:
- in 10 years from now, the 15 years old guy will work in a factory when the professional musician will still making music. Why ?? Because the experienced musician will always be able to adapt to new musical styles, to gain influences from other styles and he will always look the music from a more serious perspective.
The 15 years old guy will start repeating himself after few tracks or 1-2 albums. That story with the "inspiration" and stuff it's a stupid joke. And i can tell you this, as a musician who work for more then 10 years as a musical composer for international artists from all musical styles.
"Divine inspiration", will work maybe for 1-2 maximum 10 songs...but what you will do when you have to make 100 songs form pop, rock to classical music or jazz ??? Will you stay 1 year in the studio waiting for the inspiration to hit you ?? or you wait until Steinberg will create a soft to read your minds and put them into sequencer ?? Haha...No ! .
You need experience and musical knowledge my friends !
Take a look on the psy scene today. You will see that from all the "goa" artists who made music 10 -15 years ago, only few of them are still active. All of this artists have musical studies, and all of them come form different musical styles before making trance.
Ex: Eat Static,Juno Reactor, Simon Posford, Koxbox, Cosmosis, Raja Ram, X- Dream, Astral P, Deedrah......
Where are all the others artists ? Maybe most of them where 15 years old kids playing with a PC...and not serious musicians !
NEW ALBUM OUT SOON !!!
"ATMA - Music Revolution"
www.myspace.com/atmastudio |
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : May 29, 2008 06:28
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Good topic.
What matters is the final outcome - whether good/bad/ugly in each individuals own opinion. But i feel true musicians always have the edge
Boom |
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HiGheR^AcCeSs
Started Topics :
5
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503
Posted : May 29, 2008 07:58
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progressive and Chillout are examples of genres where no artist would last in the long run without reasonable musical skills. Not too sure its the same with dark and full on production.
To FiNd YouRsELf YoU GoTTa LoSe YouRsELf FirSt! |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : May 29, 2008 10:07
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Regarding the dance scene, an artist is more of an engineer than a musician. Artists that stand out are not the ones that recorded the best performances in the studio, but the ones that created arrangements that destroyed the dancefloor.
Musical training can lead into a musical wankfest of scales that just send the people to the bar. I can think of an israeli duo to give an example, but I'd rather not kick a dead horse.
Learning basic music theory and triggering soft synths is a piece of piss, but I think that we can all agree that it is a form of art that produces amazing results when mastered and for me, experienced engineers and experienced musicians, deserve to be respected equally.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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K.T.E
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
76
Posted : May 29, 2008 11:16
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Creating art is often a series decisions. Even great artists have bad ideas and experiment with stuff. The difference is that they recognize the good from the bad and discard the bad ones.
Just because you don't have a full track in your head when you start doesn't mean you can't be original. The series of choices shape the direction the track develops. It can be generic or it can be very original. Some choose the safe and familiar route and some dare to try new things.
How people approach making a music is very personal and you can't really say that one is more right than the other. Art is supposed to be about self expression, right? The fact that some end up creating quite unoriginal and impersonal stuff has probably more to do with their goals and choices than their methods. |
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Jedi_knight
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
620
Posted : May 29, 2008 12:03
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Quote:
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On 2008-05-29 02:52, The_Guardians_Of_Truth wrote:
Well the difference between a 15 years old geek and a 30 years old experienced musician with 100.000 Euro studio is:
- in 10 years from now, the 15 years old guy will work in a factory when the professional musician will still making music. Why ?? Because the experienced musician will always be able to adapt to new musical styles, to gain influences from other styles and he will always look the music from a more serious perspective.
The 15 years old guy will start repeating himself after few tracks or 1-2 albums. That story with the "inspiration" and stuff it's a stupid joke. And i can tell you this, as a musician who work for more then 10 years as a musical composer for international artists from all musical styles.
"Divine inspiration", will work maybe for 1-2 maximum 10 songs...but what you will do when you have to make 100 songs form pop, rock to classical music or jazz ??? Will you stay 1 year in the studio waiting for the inspiration to hit you ?? or you wait until Steinberg will create a soft to read your minds and put them into sequencer ?? Haha...No ! .
You need experience and musical knowledge my friends !
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Tottaly agree!!!
Also i think that is easier for a musician to become a software expert than a software expert to become a musician...
And a musician is surely an artist instead of a software expert who most of the times isn't an artist.
When i say artist i mean a person who is devoted to art.
---RealPsyLifeForRealPsyPeople--- |
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