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Labels slowing the evolution of psy?
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 17:14
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On 2007-11-06 15:39, Spindrift wrote:
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On 2007-11-06 14:40, Dennis the menace wrote:
To make a good compilation you need a "story" and to make a "story" you need tracks that would fit in that "story", or it would look like Absolute Sallad 2007
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IMO very few compilations actually tell a story.
Using similar tracks is a way to put tracks together so it doesn't sound like a complete mish-mash, but to tell a story properly you have to have diversity and to do that you need a lot more skill that being able to find tracks that fit into a certain mould.
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So assuming the journey is the reason why most VAs are made, it seems you're saying that most VAs aren't worth releasing because the compilers don't have the skill to make a journey out of their album. Which means that most labels are releasing sub-standard VAs. Which means that most labels are not helping to raise the standard of the scene. Which means there's more low-quality music being released than there should be. Which means that many artists should not be having their tracks released because THERE'S ALREADY ENOUGH GENERIC TRANCE AROUND TO DROWN THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF CHINA.
If this situation is to end, either evey single label needs to get their shit together and stop releasing tracks which sound like each other, no matter who wrote them, or the scene must collapse so totally that it's impossible for artists to make any money or get any gigs, meaning that there's no longer any kudos or respect to be gained in being an 'artist'.
I know which I'd prefer.
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 18:16
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A nice thread, and a good read. I know I haven't written anything in this thread, so excuse my "spam".
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On 2007-11-06 17:14, Colin OOOD wrote:
the scene must collapse so totally that it's impossible for artists to make ,,any" money or get ,,any" gigs, meaning that there's no longer any kudos or respect to be gained in being an 'artist'.
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Motta Fokka Hoooray!! 
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 19:30
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On 2007-11-06 17:14, Colin OOOD wrote:
So assuming the journey is the reason why most VAs are made, it seems you're saying that most VAs aren't worth releasing because the compilers don't have the skill to make a journey out of their album. Which means that most labels are releasing sub-standard VAs. Which means that most labels are not helping to raise the standard of the scene. Which means there's more low-quality music being released than there should be. Which means that many artists should not be having their tracks released because THERE'S ALREADY ENOUGH GENERIC TRANCE AROUND TO DROWN THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF CHINA.
If this situation is to end, either evey single label needs to get their shit together and stop releasing tracks which sound like each other, no matter who wrote them, or the scene must collapse so totally that it's impossible for artists to make any money or get any gigs, meaning that there's no longer any kudos or respect to be gained in being an 'artist'.
I know which I'd prefer.
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Hehe...well I'm not sure I agree with the conclusions you draw from my statement.
First of it's a matter of taste. I'm sure many people like when compilations seem what they would call consistent and they are looking for a certain style rather than wanting to explore music.
Also, from a producer perspective I find that the only thing that is as bad for creativity as trying to sound like other acts is trying to sound like no other act.
So if all labels tried to look only for very unique music I don't think that would be a good situation either.
The main thing as a label owner, DJ or artist is to have creative integrity and just go with your feeling and don't try to sound like or avoid sounding like someone else.
Too much music being released doesn't bother me....I think that as much music as possible should be available and that everyone that likes to should make music and make it public in case someone appreciates it.
I don't mind sifting through it at all, and I do find that with the boom of labels last few years there is also a lot more interesting music released, so more labels is better than less if you like diversity.
Many people obviously do like generic music, and it's great for them that they get hold of the music they like.
So I'm no taste nazi, but I do think there is room for more diversity and I don't think it's really only the market resulting in the heavy stylization but it's a laziness from all parts involved....artists, labels, DJ's and the party goers.
In the end I personally don't care if a compilation tells a story or not and is just looking for good tracks.
But many people do listen to whole compilations and like them to fit together as a whole.
I think it's a shame when people like Fraggletrollet who make excellent and original music doesn't get the exposure he IMO deserves because labels find it hard to fit with the other 9 generic tracks they have and they instead end up taking another generic track to fill up the comp to make the CD more homogeneous.
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http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 20:13
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 23:20
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On 2007-11-06 17:14, Colin OOOD wrote:the scene must collapse so totally that it's impossible for artists to make any money or get any gigs, meaning that there's no longer any kudos or respect to be gained in being an 'artist'.
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You got it, thats what will happen, except for a few select artists who have commercial value.
Say... GMS, Astrix, IM, 1200 MICS and whomever is able to create an effect where their name is enough to gather 1000+ people in even smaller towns for organizers.
You have too see it all in the biiiiiiiiiig picture... For instance here in Denmark, I have to pay 4000 ~ 7000 Euro just for a venue... After that, I need sound system, lights, deco and so forth.
Usually, what we end up with for one of the bigger events here, is a budget around 13.000 Euro, being able to take an entrence fee of aprox 27 Euro.. This means, we have to attract at least 500 party goers every time just to break even (considering local taxation also).
Pay notice, that if the cops bust a party, we might even loose the 13.000 Euro... So, in the long run, this is not sustainable.
When the parties compete, with other parties every weekend and the audience no longer know new fresh and innovative artists due to market saturation of crap releases what can you do ?
Only thing I have seen truly work so far in Denmark, is booking "sure" names as headliners. GMS, ASTRIX etc... that way, party economy makes sense... or is at least possible, unless you want to throw your money out the window untill you can set up your residence in a cardboard box in the street.
Seen from this perspective, production artists can start about forgetting about earning money because their commercial worth is getting close to zero ~ 200 euro per gig (standard signed dj fee here when we are lucky).
These are the facts. Its a "bottomline" thing, the sheer volume of music being released has made it almost impossible to break through.
Alternatives are needed.... For us, Electrobeat, we try to put focus on decorations and total event experience. Still, the trend just continues to worsen... As does it for other organizers not betting on the safe lineups.
The CROWD and the SCENE and the CULTURE does not appreciate "innovation" by rewarding it commercial value. The reason for this, is the volume of music being released, making it impossible for listeners to keep up. 10 years ago, every album that arrived new and fresh at my local records dealer was NEWS to me... Something I was waiting for... Now I have given up keeping up.
How must it not be, for people just wanting to listen to the music for pure recreation ? All they will know and focus on, are the acts being featured at the parties - Which are again the same acts, which are being featured on most of the copy paste compilations and albums. Other acts, have no value for them, they dont know them, they dont have the time to get to know them.
Soooo, forget about earning money - Be happy if the scene hasnt developed like this where ever you are at.... but prepare, its coming!
These are simply new times, everybody are trying to sell burgers, claiming they are the best and most innovative. When in doubt, people go to what they know, MCDONALDS ! 
Sure...
The labels are to blame, for just being dj promotion setups releasing the same generic stuff.
The artists are to blame, for wanting to release stuff that gets them bookings and more releases over trying the unsafe (and due to labels futile)
The crowd is to blame, for not supporting the new and spending at least a couple of hours a day systematicly listening through all the psy releases and writing reviews, making top 10s all the time....
Everybody is to blame!
Once we realize the above, we are wasting our time pondering over it with endless complaining. These dynamics, at least to me, seem unchangeable since they are fueled by individual ego and ambition of djs, labels & artists and go uncontrolled by an over stimulated audience/crowd who can no longer keep up.
Find new ways to release your music, and get attention.
Find new ways to make parties, put focus on CONCEPT instead of HEADLINER perhaps.
Find new ways to relate to this culture. Go HEAR music & Dance, instead of go SEEING a liveact.
- Krell Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Nov 6, 2007 23:52
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collapse?
i think that may be a slight overstatement.
It's obvious there is no real money to be made in the sales of cd's, not at least at this juncture.
No one can decide for someone else whether or not they want to create a new label and release music. Whether it's "shitty" or not doesn't matter, everyone is entitled to chasing after their own dreams.
However, It is the law of nature, that the strong will survive, so any of these under funded, under experienced labels will die out.
It is only a matter of time before a more efficient system of releases will come about. As long as the passion and love for the music stay in focus, things will work themselves out.
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 00:36
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On 2007-11-06 17:14, Colin OOOD wrote:
So assuming the journey is the reason why most VAs are made, it seems you're saying that most VAs aren't worth releasing because the compilers don't have the skill to make a journey out of their album. Which means that most labels are releasing sub-standard VAs. Which means that most labels are not helping to raise the standard of the scene. Which means there's more low-quality music being released than there should be. Which means that many artists should not be having their tracks released because THERE'S ALREADY ENOUGH GENERIC TRANCE AROUND TO DROWN THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF CHINA. |
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For sure, agreed 100%. But of course this relies on the assumption that VAs are made with a journey in mind... which may be so, but from a practical point of view, most compilations are merely DJ fodder. Forget a story--here are the building blocks, they say. Of course, even if that is the case, there sure are enough of those on the market... and the point still stands.
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 00:43
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@Basilisk
Indeed
If I want a journey I download a dj set, if I want ammo, I checkout some previews and buy some music...
Then, I make a journey myself, out of the stages outlined by the production artists.
DJ fodder HAH! :-D
Lock and Load
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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simon_marklar
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
107
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 08:24
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now i dont know how other labels operate, but we're actively trying to push the boundaries of a specific sub genre of psytrance.
when i chose the tracks for "five tons of flax" i had a particular sound in mind (we wanna promote tech trance, as there aint enough of it around imho). i selected a bunch of tracks that had the tech spirit i love so much and tried to make the compilation like a journey from the start of a party to the end, with each track representing a time of night, with teknotica opening the party going through the deep night via kali frogz and trimada to gothicas sunrise sound and then the finish of holeg. This was my "journey" in the CD.
Sadly it seems that no one understood that there was a journey in the track order; i've been told the track selection jumps around... well yeah. unless i chose 9 tracks that sounded very similar, its going to do that. but if the 9 tracks sounded similar, the comp would be boring to my ears. so what to do? do i search out for similar sounding tracks to make the VA sound more cohesive to others? or is my selection and ordering really that off that i only think my final product matches the ideas i had? or should i keep doing what im doing?
In the end i was very happy with the comp, because to me, it represented 9 different takes on one fragment of "psy trance". and the aim i set for the label is "to promote and extend the idea of tech trance", which is what my problem is with psy at the moment. at the moment it seems to be regurgitation, not innovation.
yes, i was telling people that their music didnt fit - i wanted tech trance, people wanted to give me minimal techno or dark psy. but i do feel that the tech i chose was varied. now if only we'd sell some more 
I feel that the prog trance scene has fallen/started to fall into the regurgitation syndrome. my girlfriend loves the housey prog thats coming out, and i like some of it, but most of it is getting so sameish that i cant listen to it anymore. as others have said the same happened with full on and it seems darkpsy too. If no label is prepared to step up and break the mould, then you people have the tools to release things yourself. sure its not in a shiny case, but honestly, you dont really need a record label if you know how to use the web.
http://www.myspace.com/mechanicaldragonrecords |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 09:00
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Don't you find that a bit ridiculous.... Compilations by DJs for DJs!?!?
Goes to show that the music has reached such a low that the only ones who seem to buy it anymore are the ones that use it as a tool. When was the last time any of you guys bought a VA to listen to it in entirety and not just for those couple of tracks you want to play? This pigeonholing is creating sub-genres and formulae.
Real deal artists ... please be a bit more confident in your music. VA's are not test grounds for success anymore but more for fitting into someones else's story. Get the heck out of there and make your own album. It's harder work but its the only way you're going to come off as original in this clone war.
Can name dozens of artists with talent that blew it by releasing too many tracks on VAs and ran out of originality when it came to their album. The first will always be the one with a big part of your soul... don't break it into pieces.
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 09:30
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On 2007-11-07 09:00, Yidam wrote:
When was the last time any of you guys bought a VA to listen to it in entirety and not just for those couple of tracks you want to play?
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1996
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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PKS
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
490
Posted : Nov 7, 2007 10:25
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I guess there is still some innovatite quality psytrance out there, but it drowns in the flood of crap... I just don't have time to dig through all the dissappointments and sadness to find it anymore...
I think there is a lack of quality controle among most psytrance labels, for several reasons. One could be that they are opsessed with following the latest trend, and trend usually doesn't go hand in hand with quality and innovaty. I also think labels just releases what their friends are making, which destroy their judgment.
Labels should be much more strict, do more quality controle and don't always follow the trend.
For example in the full on scene, a couple of years ago, there seemed to be a competition to have the fattest bass line. Now that every bedroom dj know how to make those basslines by some copy pasting, the new competition seems to be how many cheesy pop samples can you put into one track...
Psytrance today reminds me of the commercial euro trance around 2000, Tiesto style. Now, say cheese! A psytrance party in 2007 looks like a Scooter candy rave to me....
...or maybe I just became old....
CHILL TRIBE
CTRCD01 QUALITY RELAXATION
CTRCD02 RELAXED JOURNEYS
CTRCD03 EAR PLEASURE
CTRCD04 WOMBATMUSIC - Shameful Silence
CTRCD05 POLYPLOID - Grow Your Own
CTRCD06 IAN ION - Gringo Locomotion
CTRCD07 SUNKINGS - Before We Die |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Nov 8, 2007 21:52
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GorillaDust
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
166
Posted : Nov 8, 2007 22:44
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100% agree with Yidam. On that note, the new Ajja CD is (IMO) a fine example of this - a few tracks on some comps to get listeners interested, and then a blaster of a solo release. Nice. |
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psyderella
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
80
Posted : Nov 9, 2007 04:31
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On 2007-11-05 10:38, Fragletrollet wrote:
Is it only me who recieves comments on tracks I've sent to labels like this: "Great track man, really innovative and exciting, but doesnt fit the cd"?
Dont get me wrong, I think the tracks on a VA should fit together, but why refuse music because it has a different bassline or is somehow different than "mainstream" darkpsy/etc? Many of my friends with exciting new sounds, fresh from old psypatterns and such, are most of the time being refused by labels, cause they think its too strange etc.
Psychedelia died when people restrained it...
Whats your thoughts on this matter?
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Bring me Kemics,play for me the Graveyard Waltz & throw me into my Industrial Temple cause with all these pessisism floating,i'llthink i'll drown my self!!
Excuuuuse me,are u the same guy who had 2 spactacular tracks released at 2 0f the best compilations of 2007,or i'll have to laugh for this is candid camera??-well,it has crossed my mind.. 
my point??hell of a beginning my dear Magnus,i'm sure u found ur way through releasing already-i can understand ur eager to get ur stuff published,it's the same eager u know when people listening to a great track from a comp. hoping for more from the arist-
so,stop bitching about @ if u want the whole deal,cook ur debut @ bring da noise to the crowd! 
there's always plenty of room for masterpiece albums and u have the tallent to compose serious profound & more importand,UNDERSTANDABLE,shit u know.
so just,'tell ur own story' babe from Alpha to Ůmega,u'll be surprised how many of us like to listen to fairytales! 
i'm sure the labels as well..
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