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Labels slowing the evolution of psy?
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:03
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Yidam is right. One more thingy - if the labels are all so good, kind, opened to artists and accepting then why there is such an ammount of them? With 2-3 released cds. 
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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33
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1114
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:17
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On 2007-11-05 10:38, Fragletrollet wrote:
Whats your thoughts on this matter?
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Labels reject music which they do not think will sell nor in the future become viable in regards to earning back money.
If music is not worth money, and is a poor investment, why should they put it on their CDs ?
When I say "worth money" you should understand it in a sense, that it is an investment for a label. New sounds and innovation is also an investment, and sometimes you have to try the new. However, if you as a businessman do not think the music will ever catch on, its what is called a "poor investment"... Therefore this is how it is.
Like it or not, labels are interested in music which will be appreciated by their crowd.
Did you not know this already ?
If your friends music is not worth money, they should just give it away. If it starts to be worth something, labels and organizers will catch on and sign them, book them and so forth.
If its REALLY valuable music, labels and organizers will be practically BEGGING them to contribute.
Thats the way it works in the commercial world... and, almost all psy labels are in their nature commercial. They are just not in a lucrative market, and only the most talented businessmen are able to stay in the game.
You can be commercial, and still be idealistic, in the sense that you sacrifice your own talent on the alter of a bad market instead of going for something with a high pay off. There are limits though, some labels like to release more than 1 or 2 CDs, and not all are rich kids with an endless supply of money, nor are they drug dealers with the same benefits. Sooo, they need to make a choice.
If you want your releases brought to the commercial market, it needs to have commercial value.
Innovation is the term used, for describing inventiveness which creates more profit for already established commercial entities. In this case, your friends music is not considered innovative ENOUGH to warrant investment.
Keep practicing, or embrace the underground and stay there.
If artists could deliver music so good, that it would sell no matter what, only because it was picked up by a "psy" label, then labels would not concern themselves with disregarding music.
Fact is, the music is not good enough.... Work harder ;-) Is that "slowing the evolution" ? I dont think so, because artists who want to try new stuff will do so, regardless of the labels...
Once new stuff, that WORKS emerges, labels will want to sell it.
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:19
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A compilation is like a set. It tells a story. People should make sure the tunes fit the story they want to tell. I'd rather go in a musical journey carried by psychedelic sounds, than check the latest products of a supermarket. |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:25
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
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111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:29
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Sorry, gotta say this, most compilations today sounds like the very same track dragged out to 75 minutes. Ofcourse you have some specialities, but way too seldom.
If labels dont sell anything these days anyways, what have you got to loose as a label releasing new music? I think its pretty clear that people are getting tired of the standard sound. Mainly talking about "darkpsy" here, dont know so much about the other psygenres but I guess it has its similarities...
Love & Light!
http://www.myspace.com/fragletrollet
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http://www.fragletrollet.com/ |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:30
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I think you re getting stuck in the details. Its not the 16th basslines, or luck of them, that make a tune what it is.
Its the whole vibe of it. |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:38
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On 2007-11-05 14:25, Fragletrollet wrote:
Thank you all for your comments!
I dont think it is about the quality of the music, but rather the style of it. If a label get one special track with a different style, how in the hell are labels supposed to find 8 other of the same style?
No, lets give up and into the standard kbbbfx soup...
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Come on...
Surely whether or not a label releases a track has to do with its quality.
To put a different perspective on things, I think there are not many labels who will not release a great sounding track on the basis that it is not innovative enough.
This is sad, but I think, its an effect of what I stated earlier. A poor market.
The old Flying Rhino and also Blue Room Released would put out quite different stuff from time to time... but, those days people actually bought CDs.
If a label releases something truly fresh today, how many CDs will they sell... 100 ? 200 ? If lucky! What distributor will pick this up ?
They would be better off giving the music away for free instead.
So, the commercial value of the music dictates what can be released. Quality is a part of this, as is innovation. However, when you dont think the overall commercial value is there, you dont have the headroom to experiment and release anyway.
Its not that your friends music is "bad", or of "poor quality". Its just that it would need to be of incredible quality and of truly genre defining dimensions to justify itself on a commercial cd release.... and who makes such music anyway ?
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 14:48
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Well, its not about the quality, but rather the difference between it and other "normal" psy.
Seriously, people have come to me and said that they really enjoy the track, that they even want this track the most, but cant cause of the other tracks on the VA. What sense does that make?
If I was a label, Id wait until I got a cd full of innovative music before releasing anything in this very unsecure market....
And whos talking about my friend? 
http://www.myspace.com/fragletrollet
http://www.myspace.com/unknowncausesound
http://www.fragletrollet.com/ |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 15:18
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Quote:
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On 2007-11-05 14:48, Fragletrollet wrote:
Well, its not about the quality, but rather the difference between it and other "normal" psy.
Seriously, people have come to me and said that they really enjoy the track, that they even want this track the most, but cant cause of the other tracks on the VA. What sense does that make?
If I was a label, Id wait until I got a cd full of innovative music before releasing anything in this very unsecure market....
And whos talking about my friend?
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Did they say they liked your music better than the other stuff they released ?
Perhaps you just found the wrong label then, if your style doesnt fit the label, then go for another one - because thats what they do also.
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 15:45
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The trend for labels to have conservative music selection started around 1996, up to that point, psytrance labels were all about pushing limits and creating new things.
Prime examples are Platipus Records (which were very innovative in psytrance with acts like The Art of Trance, Union Jack, and the discovery of a new genre with Robert Miles' Children on the Platipus Rec. Vol. 2 compilation), Dragonfly and most of all TIP Records - as each compilation of theirs was at least a minor (if not a major) breakthrough in psychedelia. Even they were more conservative than the DJs at the time - the whole scene was about breaking the limits and creating something special and unique then.
Each of these labels either went bankrupt (Dragonfly), changed their style into something more mainstream (Platipus), or both (TIP).
Perhaps the main symbols of this are:
1) Matsuri's Let it RIP compilation - proclaiming the death of goa trance by none other than the #1 DJ of the era.
2) TIP going bankrupt and becoming TIP World, replacing Hallucinogen, X-Dream, Psychopod, The Infinity Project and others (with each compilation showing the evolution of the artists and picking the truely special tracks from them) with Earthling, GMS and the likes - a sound they still hold loyal to today (nearly 10 years later.. and it's nearly the exact same sound with better production).
3) MPDQX's shift from the darker, droning music to more standardized (aka housier) beats and sounds - and nearly single-handedly took the psychedelic exploration of the minimal/prog era, the same as TIP's bankrupcy did for psytrance.
4) The rise of psytrance in Brazil, Mexico and Portugal gave existing styles of psytrance - which up to 5 years ago were in constant flux an extra 3-4 years of longevity. Never before has a single style of psytrance remained dominant for over 3 years prior to this. The sharp rise in numbers of the scene also contributed to the fact that change has become much slower. Now the scene can work under standard business models - as the crowd has become more than freaks looking for some mind-expanding music (which are unpredictable in their tastes, to say the least), but rather you can get the profile of an "average" trancer... and the most basic business rule - aim for the largest crowd you can.
I'd say around 2005 the change was complete... New styles since were usually not more than an improvisation over old ones, and even Suomi which is perhaps Goatrance's truest predecessor has lost the same zest for exploration and has become much more standardized.
The trend is not only related to labels, it's related to DJs, and most of all - it's related with the crowd. If it's easy to please most of the crowd with more of the same - why the hell should a label or DJ bother with something different? A good, well-produced, very average full-on track will sell more, because that's what the average psytrance listener wants.
It's a combination of elements that feeds itself - as the crowd looking for something different goes and listens to different styles of music instead of psytrance, the DJs play music to please their crowds, giving the labels pouring out this music the best PR job there is, and the artists look to satisfy the labels so they can release more music. There are a few minor blots here (Suomi being the main one... breakbeat looking like the next), but as the scene grows larger, this becomes more inevitable - just like in the Techno, House and mainstream Trance scenes.
Very few labels try to go outside this circle and try and give something both special and of high quality, but they're usually a closed-group of friends doing their own thing (like Twisted Records) or esoteric nutters (Freakdance and the such).
In the end - psytrance will be reduced to this:
http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html
 http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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insane
Silent Horror
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
1983
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 15:54
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On 2007-11-05 11:14, Fragletrollet wrote:
I think in the future ill just release all my tracks on a website or something. Releasing on labels takes forever most of the time too... No fun releasing a track when it shows up a year later when the effect of suprise is gone cause it has been held on to too long....?
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same views for me.. been for long ..
in my opinion, EP cds will help alot in this sense. or maybe digital downloads.. u can chose ur own masterin man.. and make some digital download thing.. can help in deliverin trax 1 day max 1 week old.. not 2 years old ..
hope somthing works out .. im with u bro.. surely if in anyway we can come out wit a solution , id be glad to contribute.
As for the "ideas" , well, the compilers are lookin for a story, they dont want to put random trax in a VA.. is somewhat weird ,, i know. i have come across VA with both mornin and dark artist in it.. forgot the name ..
anyways.. this is bound to continue.
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NEMESIS - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2007
PATTERNS EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2009
SEANCE - DEVILSMIND RECORDS - 2011
PATTERNS II EP - DEVILSMIND RECORDS _ 2013 |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 15:58
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nice to read some of kaz's thoughts.
that's more or less what i was trying to say. he just spent more words making his point clear  but i still think there's a change coming... funny, i'm the optimist here
good one! made me chuckle
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 16:17
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I think the problem is that being innovative can actually work against you.
There is very few labels looking for new sounds and the vast majority want music that fit some current trend.
It's not simply about what's commercially viable for the label...it's easier to follow the trends than to set them and most label owners are DJ's and want music that fits into the style of their sets.
They hardly do a very thorough market analysis and base the style of the label on that.
And there is a certain inertia in both the labels them self and in the market.
Sometimes producers can simply be ahead of the times. I think that means that they have a feel for what people wants, but still their material will not be commercially viable until the market has caught up with reality because it takes a while before labels find enough tracks in that style to make a compilation or DJ's find enough tracks to fit into a set.
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 16:20
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On 2007-11-05 14:17, Krell wrote:
If you want your releases brought to the commercial market, it needs to have commercial value.
Innovation is the term used, for describing inventiveness which creates more profit for already established commercial entities. In this case, your friends music is not considered innovative ENOUGH to warrant investment. |
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I have to disagree with this... an innovative artist will find it harder to get released, as his music won't fit into most label's styles.
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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1114
Posted : Nov 5, 2007 17:04
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On 2007-11-05 16:20, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-11-05 14:17, Krell wrote:
If you want your releases brought to the commercial market, it needs to have commercial value.
Innovation is the term used, for describing inventiveness which creates more profit for already established commercial entities. In this case, your friends music is not considered innovative ENOUGH to warrant investment. |
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I have to disagree with this... an innovative artist will find it harder to get released, as his music won't fit into most label's styles.
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You are not allowed to disagree with me, I am king of knowledge and if you do not start agreeing your in trouble.
The easiest thing will maybe be for me to agree with you :-P
I think you are understanding what I wrote the wrong way. Commercial innovation is about creating profits through product development.
If a label hears something, and really thinks it kicks ass, Im sure they will release it - IF - it fits the label profile - AND - it truely is THAT good.
If not, they are again just bad businessmen, because someone with a keen instinct for business knows innovation when they see (hear) it.
Innovation is NOT making something different, it is making something NEW that WORKS. It also has to work commercially.
For my part, I find that most "different" music sounds like crap. This is also something I expect, at least sometimes it might sound interesting unlike many of the generic releases... but would I pay money for something I do not enjoy ? No.
For labels today, I dont think the market gives much room for experimenting on what is actually innovative in the audiences ears, by releasing music on which they are not sure. They have to play it safe.
There is a difference in the way I use the word "innovation" you see... I am describing the form of commercial innovation that needs to be present to break new fresh music to the market. If that is not the meaning, the word becomes useless...
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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