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Labels slowing the evolution of psy?
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : May 6, 2008 10:05
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LOl! look at these Djs trying to be ...
wankstars of the ooomph level. |
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sHiVaMoOon
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
288
Posted : May 6, 2008 10:31
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your inability to have an intelligent discussion never fails to amaze me..
carry on cockstar
 (Rudraksh / Amaris records)
VA "DEEP FRIED" compiled by Dj Shiva Moon out now on Rudraksh Records!
VA Ahimsa double cd compilation out now!
VA " Fry or Die " under construction!
www.rudrakshrecords.com
www.amarisrecords.com |
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heretical
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
77
Posted : May 6, 2008 15:54
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So quit griping if no one is buying your tracks, release them yourself. Spend more time learning to market yourself and your music as well as more about the music industry instead of whining on forums.
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I think the issue is though that this is a huge part of the problem and not part of the solution. The facts are that anyone can start a record label for not that much money, there isn't a true psytrance authority media wise to advertise in, web advertisement is a joke making effective marketting very difficult, the online shops know they need to take a piece of the action no matter how small so they sell virtually anything even vaguely related to psy.
I truely believe what most people want is a new genre if anything, as to be able better to classify the music they are looking for and possibly stumble on to some good music by accident. The probability you find music your looking for by accident at this point is close to zero because there is just too much music that is classified in too broad of a context.
Before someone chimes in with "we don't need genres, there should only be good and bad music"...A good analogy is a library of 200 books. If you only have 200 books in a library there is not much need for a card catalog or sub divisions of the library. Its easy to sample every book yourself in the library. If you have a library of 20,000 books though you better have a good card catalog and have specific sub divisions of the books according to subject. If you have that, alot of people will find books next to the specific one that they looked up in the card catalog that they like and would have never found otherwise. If you dont have that, the only way to ever find a book is to know specifically what the authors name is and specifically what the book is about. Current psy is like a library with a recipe book, next to a philosophy book, next to a book on short stories...even if you find one specific title your looking for, you will never find a related title in the mess. |
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pinkE
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
441
Posts :
406
Posted : May 7, 2008 14:50
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well from the way I see it some people here do not realize where the hell we are living in:
it's all about the money!
Cover art=$
Mastering=$
printing album=$
Distributing=$
promotion=$
All in all ideally the artists job is to practice his art and art only. In fact hundreds of years ago artists had got money from patrons (michaelanjelo and many others) were sponsored by the upper class.
Moreover a fact that many of the artists here forget- people don't buy music! which is pretty understandable for young people in this world. For example the situation in the prices of apartments in Tel Aviv has gone so high that people who live in the city have little spare money for leisure expenses, therefore even if these people do have some small change they wouldn't spend it on cd's. Moreover, the Trance scene, unlike other electronic genres crowds such as House & techno are much less established. I'm not going to picture here a stereotype of the sort of people who associate themselves to these scenes, but the bottom line Trance is built much more of hippies and uncapitalistic persons who usually cant afford to buy music.
This is why labels, to stay alive, which is a hard thing to do these days, try to go to the more mainstream music, because it can make a profit. In the end, unless you have a side job or this is not your initial occupation you have to live from this money. With all my love to weird and deranged music the bottom line is that it doesn't generate any money, and most of the target audience is the kind who will download it a few days after it's out.
This sort of thing happens in all the genres these days, we feel it more here cuz this is a small and tribal community. But unfortunately and understandably not many people are willing to dedicate so much of their time and effort for no money.
Labels are a business cooporation for everything and like and business it tries not to loose and hopefully gain money, this cannot be done through esoteric music in these days climate. try to look what happens in all the music industry and figure out that this is a major crisis all over.
"Hypnoza" 106fm (TLV) - Sunday's @ 20:00
www.myspace.com/hypnozaradioshow106fm
Delusional Trippy voyage to space madness
"HAFIROT" 106fm (TLV) wednesday's @ 13:00
http://www.106fm.co.il/schedule/#program/50/
LETS GET DIG |
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Cosmic Tandav
Trailoka
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
1026
Posted : May 7, 2008 19:26
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just went thru the last 6 pages...very interesting topic...
i think that most of the guys who have replied to this topic has some truth to it ..but none of it is the whole truth ...
I know for sure that most of the labels releasing today have no 'journey' so to speak in them .there are labels releasing 'dark'tracks and morning tracks in them ..so its not even about stickin to the same style ...so i m really lost why any label would say that "the track is great but just doesnt fit into our compilation" unless like fria said they r just politely tellin u that they dont think the track is good enough ....
but again i thnk tht if there is goin to be more innovation it will lead to more sub genres ...coz the so called trancer of today wants to define music as more than just 'psychedelic' so watch out people if it is innovation that u want get ready for more division.
https://soundcloud.com/hypnotiquerecordings |
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DJ Milosz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
224
Posted : May 8, 2008 16:20
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I don't have time to go through the whole thread but I wanted to point out to Fragletrollet and all other artists who are producing innovative psychedelic electronic dance music that our label is always accepting submissions from all artists whose tracks meet the following criteria:
- deep music (good sign: if i listen to the track once and want to listen again)
- good production (all elements must be in their place and have a decent level)
- bpm range between 140 and 175
of course it is still possible that we have a special concept for a compilation but if we really like a track we will always try to find a way to release it on our label. news about our upcoming CD very soon 
you can contact us through our myspace site: http://www.myspace.com/uspdnb
btw, Fria you made some very good points here. I agree with all of them 100% |
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Reece
Neuron Compost
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
512
Posted : May 15, 2008 05:39
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interesting thread 
i guess we (gi'iwa productions) sit on the flipside of this discussion,... im more likely to say to artists "sorry, its not innovative and unique ENOUGH" for us to release...
to the original poster - keep at it man. if your music is that original, it will speak for itself, and it should only b a matter of time before other people catch on to it.
i used to have the same problem with my creations - a unique style that just didnt fit under any of the sub-sub-sub genres of psytrance . nowadays i cant write tracks quick enough to keep up with requests from labels to release it.
forward thinking individuals usually have to wait for the flock to catch up before they are appreciated
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : May 15, 2008 09:02
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On 2007-11-05 10:38, Fragletrollet wrote:
Is it only me who recieves comments on tracks I've sent to labels like this: "Great track man, really innovative and exciting, but doesnt fit the cd"?
Dont get me wrong, I think the tracks on a VA should fit together, but why refuse music because it has a different bassline or is somehow different than "mainstream" darkpsy/etc? Many of my friends with exciting new sounds, fresh from old psypatterns and such, are most of the time being refused by labels, cause they think its too strange etc.
Psychedelia died when people restrained it...
Whats your thoughts on this matter?
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its because the new "artist" on the block is the person compiling the cd's...
you see once money became removed from the process of cd releases, the only people willing to bother releasing cd's have an agenda to push- dj's or party organizers.
it becomes a vanity project where little jobnny can talk about his "concept" and engage his/her favorite artists in making something for them. very satisfying im sure.
cd concepts usually mean mediocre music and forced conformity.
i think its bad.
its much better to just pick the best tracks of any kind and have a go...
but im not running the world am i. no i am not. feel free to put me in charge and i will try not to be a complete dictator.. |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : May 15, 2008 09:05
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yes but all your cart catalogs dont mean anything when you are looking for "good books"
you see, partisans of all colours would love us to believe you only need to trust in fullon or dark or whatever but the fact is that you find mostly crap in every genre
and ANY genre can have amazing material in it- so its a question of finding it...
reviews dont help because we dont believe the people making the review, they are biased... there are not bitchy reviewers consistently holding high standards because no one wants a bad review of their album or comp...
Do It Yourself means we need to dig in order to find the good stuff...
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On 2008-05-06 15:54, heretical wrote:
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So quit griping if no one is buying your tracks, release them yourself. Spend more time learning to market yourself and your music as well as more about the music industry instead of whining on forums.
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I think the issue is though that this is a huge part of the problem and not part of the solution. The facts are that anyone can start a record label for not that much money, there isn't a true psytrance authority media wise to advertise in, web advertisement is a joke making effective marketting very difficult, the online shops know they need to take a piece of the action no matter how small so they sell virtually anything even vaguely related to psy.
I truely believe what most people want is a new genre if anything, as to be able better to classify the music they are looking for and possibly stumble on to some good music by accident. The probability you find music your looking for by accident at this point is close to zero because there is just too much music that is classified in too broad of a context.
Before someone chimes in with "we don't need genres, there should only be good and bad music"...A good analogy is a library of 200 books. If you only have 200 books in a library there is not much need for a card catalog or sub divisions of the library. Its easy to sample every book yourself in the library. If you have a library of 20,000 books though you better have a good card catalog and have specific sub divisions of the books according to subject. If you have that, alot of people will find books next to the specific one that they looked up in the card catalog that they like and would have never found otherwise. If you dont have that, the only way to ever find a book is to know specifically what the authors name is and specifically what the book is about. Current psy is like a library with a recipe book, next to a philosophy book, next to a book on short stories...even if you find one specific title your looking for, you will never find a related title in the mess.
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Saikozaurus
Saikozaurus
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
115
Posted : May 15, 2008 17:44
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ouroboros
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
874
Posted : May 15, 2008 23:19
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On 2008-05-15 17:44, Saikozaurus wrote:
Its so easy to release track, but its so hard to release GOOD track.
P.L.U.R.
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hehe
http://www.myspace.com/musicouroboros
**treat ur mind like a bad neighbourhood - dont go thr alone** |
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waveshapist
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
68
Posted : Jun 26, 2008 03:30
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On 2007-11-05 10:38, Fragletrollet wrote:
Is it only me who recieves comments on tracks I've sent to labels like this: "Great track man, really innovative and exciting, but doesnt fit the cd"?
Dont get me wrong, I think the tracks on a VA should fit together, but why refuse music because it has a different bassline or is somehow different than "mainstream" darkpsy/etc? Many of my friends with exciting new sounds, fresh from old psypatterns and such, are most of the time being refused by labels, cause they think its too strange etc.
Psychedelia died when people restrained it...
Whats your thoughts on this matter?
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I got this response from some labels/people.
It is the internet. Do it all yourself. I get Email from strangers too. When you find 1 or 2 thousand people in world of six billion who like your music. than you start to find more....
Geometric Progression.
I think very few people on the psy scene actually have done LSD....
Because I have done lot of LSD. I don't find much music labels making, anything psychedelic at all.
The speed past light.. |
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Zman
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
3784
Posted : Jun 26, 2008 07:02
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On 2008-05-05 13:29, ouroboros wrote:
3) As far as quality music is concerned, many a times outta the 10 tracks on a compilation, 2 or 3 trks follow the same usual boring style with nothing psychedelic or innovative in them.
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More like 7-10 tracks. Seriously  |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Jun 26, 2008 14:42
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Would like to point something about about the whole Label setup. Over the last couple of years it's been very apparent that the attitude of labels when they're compiling a CD has totally deviated due to the enormous need of artists to be released. So much so that standard label policy has become something like...
Compilation CD:
1/3rd new artists, 1/3rd mid level (no released albums) artists, and 1/3rd established artists.
payment:
new artists : 0 (seems to be standard policy now)
mid level : anything from 0 - 300 euro
established : averaging about 500 euro
When it comes to VAs this is probably the only payment coming your way apart from the CDs. The percentage from sales of a VA are minimal and usually never passed down to the artist... would love to hear from an artist who got paid a % from sales of a VA.
Now take artist albums. Rarely will a label offer you a initial fee. Most will promise a percentage of sales... which really is Okay! The few who do get the signing bonus usually have 1-3 albums under their belt or are one of the biggest tours of the year... very few in that group.
For most... the quality of your work will define the sales and hence decide how much you're getting paid. Thats the real deal imo, even if its obscure stuff like Kemic-Al back in the day ... if your music creates even a small fan base that digs the new sound, they'll probably do more for sales than some release on some unknown VA... or some DJ who plays the track, gets the crowd jumping but only promotes the artist to some other DJ when he asks "hey what was that track?"
Too small a crowd. It's really weird but the strongest distribution network for psytrance right now are not DJs or Labels or Wiri/Arabesque even the party circuit... it's all P2P. First time I heard Fraggeltrollet was from someone who'd downloaded speedwontkillu you from a sharing network. Loved it so have automatically recommended the name to other listeners & DJs. Atriohm, some of the most talented guys in the scene today... put an album worth of music on the net last year. Created Waves and have pretty much guaranteed that their official album release is something that Labels will be bidding for.
Electrypnose, Olien ... both created a niche fanbase by releasing tracks on their websites. Paper Squad ... legendary underground stuff... all through online promo. Cybernetika... released 2 free albums where each track is lightyears ahead of any alternative goa VA right now. His fans are just waiting for an official announcement to start the buzz.
so all in all ... you'll probably get wider distribution aiming to create fanbases rather than impress a DJ or a Label. Only way to do that is to be yourself, be original, be gutsy (because this is a longer investment), aim at creating something that you can call your own genre, create an album that defines YOU, get some of your UNRLs onto the net (they travel around the world way faster than released material)
and possibly get a job or get booked to play and promote yourself till the breakthrough comes. Netlabels are also a brilliant means to get the job done.
This article is a good read if you're interested in studying what a breakthrough can be...
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php
every artist should be a subgenre in itself.
Like what Neuron Compost said.
"forward thinking individuals usually have to wait for the flock to catch up before they are appreciated "
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Jester Records
Jester Records
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
254
Posted : Jun 26, 2008 20:02
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in a nut-shell, Labels usually like to identify themselves to a particular sound (which is why there isn't only one world-wide label named "techno") so it is normal that, even if music is "at a high level" that some labels say things like "great track but not our style".. don't you think ?? i get HUNDREDS of darkpsy 199BPMers Pm'ing me cause of the green high-light on my name asking me to listen to there new killargs.... i mean, c'mon, i release techtrance, techno, minimal or electro music that isn't even close to what they want me to listen to. what am i supose to say to that person ??
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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