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Is 2007 the year the CD died?

psy-goa


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  133
Posted : Mar 18, 2007 17:17
not my cd player or ceedees!
mouka
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  383
Posted : Apr 2, 2007 19:59
Just read that worldwide sales of cd's in the 1st quarter of 2007 declined with 20% compared to 2006 1st quarter. The digital online stores see their sales rising.
We can lower the price of the cd and who will pay for the costs when sales are so low???

Just an example, Trishula Records released the Olien cd last Friday & on the same day there is already a rip of the cd on the e-donkey network, the next day there are already over a 40 resources available! This is not very promising for a label & the artist to get at least the costs covered!

Maybe as a label it is better to press & manage the sale 300 copies only, so the real music lover will get his copy & the costs are covered!
          www.ajana-records.com
www.trishula-records.com
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  280
Posts :  6194
Posted : Apr 2, 2007 23:25
Quote:

On 2007-04-02 19:59, mouka wrote:
Maybe as a label it is better to press & manage the sale 300 copies only, so the real music lover will get his copy & the costs are covered!



Lets see....

300 copies X 6 Euro which is the average price a label sells to its distributor gives us a total of 1800 Euro.

Now lets check our expenses...

1000 Euro for the artists payment
200 Euro for some decent artwork
200 Euro for some decent mastering
500 Euro for printing the copies of the cd (usually its 1 euro per cd but that is if you print more than a certain number of cds and 300 is not even close to that number)

So we have already lost 100 Euro without counting any artist's copyright expenses (1 euro per album if the artist is registered),without counting any promotion,no expenses for promos sent all around the world,no bank money transfers,no taxes,no expenses to keep a company running (like social security expenses),no website maintaining,no profit for the person who is running the whole thing,nothing for anyone apart for some money for the artist who has to be a really amateur one because no serious artist accepts 1000 euro for an album,a small profit for our distributor and a big smile for the people who are going to buy the cd and eventually enjoy it (hopefully).

Why not drop the running a label idea and join Unicef or the Red Cross or WWF foundations instead?           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 00:27
1000 for 300 sold copies...damned you give the artists a really fine deal DETOX!
I get curious what terms you have in your contract...usually it's in my experience less than 20% of the price to distributor, which would mean less than 35 per track on a comp for a run of 300.

If you get decent mastering and artwork for 400 you are very lucky with your connections, and 500 for pressed CD's seems like a bargain to me as well, if you find someone who will do a run of less than 500 which is the usual limit. You have to go for CD'r if you want less than that.

But yes...your point that there is no way you make profit as a label on a run of 300 CD's is for sure correct. Seems more like the break even point for a release is somewhere around 1000 copies.
          (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
mouka
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  383
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 09:30
Quote:

On 2007-04-02 19:59, mouka wrote:
Maybe as a label it is better to press & manage the sale 300 copies only, so the real music lover will get his copy & the costs are covered!



That is exactly the point, no profit just the music! But as I said no ditributor, so it wil be 12 euro/cd.

300 copies x 12 gives us 3600 euros, this covers all expenses and hey there is some profit left
          www.ajana-records.com
www.trishula-records.com
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  280
Posts :  6194
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 17:11
Quote:

On 2007-04-03 00:27, Spindrift wrote:
1000 for 300 sold copies...damned you give the artists a really fine deal DETOX!I get curious what terms you have in your contract...



I pay 1000 euros not for the 300 sold copies but for the 9 tracks that the artist is going to provide me and for which he spend a lot of time and effort to create them and in my humble opinion 1000 euros for an artist album is a joke not to mention an insult for the artist himself.A decent artist needs something like 5-6 months to create a decent album and 1000 euros is absolutely nothing for his ammount of work the way i see it,this or i am the only stupid label manager left in the scene who pays his artists good money.The artist is offering his music and he wants to get payed for his work and he shouldnt care whether the label sells 300 or 3000 copies,thats the way i see it.

Quote:

On 2007-04-03 00:27, Spindrift wrote:
If you get decent mastering and artwork for 400 you are very lucky with your connections



I am not talking about my connections here but i am talking for a fictious label that is very short on budget and for 400 it could find some people,friends mostly i guess,to work for 200 for a decent cover and for another 200 for a decent mastering.A good mastering in our days costs around 500 and a nice cover around 300-400 euro,ofcourse very few people spend this money on mastering and artwork and settle for less,much less unfortunately.

Quote:

On 2007-04-03 00:27, Spindrift wrote:
and 500 for pressed CD's seems like a bargain to me as well, if you find someone who will do a run of less than 500 which is the usual limit. You have to go for CD'r if you want less than that.



Where i print the minimum is 1000 cds and the price is almost 1 euro for each one,if one wants to print less then he has to pay almost the same money like printing 1000 copies and wait for a long long time before they process his order.CDR can be a nice solution if you got the time and patience to copy all night and all week long but i dont know if thats legal and whats going on with taxes and the copyright organisations if the artist is registered there.

Quote:

On 2007-04-03 00:27, Spindrift wrote:
But yes...your point that there is no way you make profit as a label on a run of 300 CD's is for sure correct. Seems more like the break even point for a release is somewhere around 1000 copies.



Yeap thats the magic number i guess for a nice release,6000 euros (maybe little more) for a decent release and breaking even in around 1000-1200 copies depending the tracklist and expenses.Unfortunately not many can claim that they sell so much in our days and thats why the releases are getting worst and worst every month since people cant invest money on something that wont bring them anything back (apart debts) and thats why they settle with less and less all the time and all the people are complaining about the lack of quality in the last years releases.Thats why i am against piracy and illegan copy of cds because in my humble opinion they do kill the music and the labels.

Quote:

On 2007-04-03 09:30, mouka wrote:
That is exactly the point, no profit just the music! But as I said no ditributor, so it wil be 12 euro/cd.

300 copies x 12 gives us 3600 euros, this covers all expenses and hey there is some profit left.



A)Excuse me but a label is a company and any company should make a profit,saying that the point is no profit but just the music sounds at least like utopia to me.If the point is just the music then no need for label,every artist could just give his music for free on the internet and there would be no need for labels,distributors,psyshops etc etc.If you can find many artists (especially the good ones) who are willing to give their music for free then let me also know so i get in touch with them.

B)I knew that someone would say that no distributor is needed.Well yes you can work without a distributor but then you need to work full time on the distribution on your own plus pay for the expenses to send cds here and there AND ALSO AND MOST IMPORTANT TO WAIT TO GET YOUR MONEY SOMETHING LIKE 6 MONTHS AFTER YOU GIVE YOUR CDS TO ANY SELLER OUT THERE PLUS TO DEAL WITH ALL THE FIGHTS BETWEEN THE INTERNET SHOPS AND LOCAL RESAILERS WHO WILL SAY TO YOU THAT THEY WONT BUY FROM YOU IF YOU SELL TO ANOTHER COMPETITOR OR THAT THEY WANT EXCLUSIVITIES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.If you got the time and will to deal with all that then good luck to you mate.

C)12 Euro for each cd sold directly from you to the shops?Mate this price can exist only in your dreams i can assure you and it shows obviously that you have no good knowledge of how the market works,no wonder you think that a label can break even with 300 copies.

Sorry for ruining your dreams and suggestions,not my fault           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
aog406
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  48
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 17:32
Quote:

On 2007-02-26 21:51, mouka wrote:
What do you think as a music lover consumer, an artist or label owner about this? The fact is that cd sales will decline even more this year. Most of the labels don't sell over 300 copies of their releases. I don't want to debate about the money side of this but about the creative/cultural consequences.

"People shoot MANY MORE digital photos than they ever did film ones. People will own MUCH more music than they did in the physical era". This is good or not?

Labels will slowly disappear and who will perform the main function of a label: FILTERING?





Do we actually need someone to FILTER our music for us? We have our own tastes and can decide for ourselves, can't we?


mouka
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  383
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 19:52
og406 wrote: Do we actually need someone to FILTER our music for us? We have our own tastes and can decide for ourselves, can't we?

That is here to discuss, that is why I brought it up. Every label has his own kind of music and so you know what you get when you buy from that label. In that way a label works as a filter.




To Detox: if you were seriously running a company you would have to release far more than you do now (I think 7 cd's in 3years??), as you said selling 1000-1200 copies is rare these days. So com'on even you can not take this label company serious.

I said I can sell directly to the people 300 copies, no shop in between! That was my point about pressing 300 copies. And like I said there is profit, so please read my posts well before using big caps




          www.ajana-records.com
www.trishula-records.com
Kalki2


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  31
Posted : Apr 3, 2007 20:10
The CD will never die, but the information progress will be different...

Disc is the Best!!!!

Money is the quest!!!
DETOX
Moderator

Started Topics :  280
Posts :  6194
Posted : Apr 4, 2007 00:37
Quote:

On 2007-04-03 19:52, mouka wrote:
To Detox: if you were seriously running a company you would have to release far more than you do now (I think 7 cd's in 3years??), as you said selling 1000-1200 copies is rare these days. So com'on even you can not take this label company serious.



I dont know what my company has to do with all the things that i mentioned before and i dont understand why people mention my label whenever i say something in this forum,i critisise dark psy someone mentions my label,i speak about money issues concerning cd releases someone mentions my label,i speak about other people's releases someone mentions my label,i speak about aliens someone somehow mentions my label.Cant we just focus on what i actually say each time?

And in any case i have stated thousands of times before that my label is my hobby (although its running more professional than the majority of labels around like the people and artists claim) and i am not into this thing for doing money or even promoting myself since i am not a dj or an artist,i am releasing music just for the sake of it and to satisfy the constructive side of myself and build something new.By the way i sell in average something like 1800-2000 copies so even my hobby label sells much much more from the majority of labels out there.Oh and something last but not least,since when a label can be characterised as serious or not based on the number of releases it makes?After all i need something like 10.000 euros to release a single cd and not 2000-3000 like many dark psy and typical israeli full on labels need in our days not to mention that signing a track from the likes of Prometheus,Deedrah,Dino Psaras,Electric Universe,Wizzy Noise and many many more takes much more time than signing tracks from younger artists who seem to produce one track every couple of days.I prefer releasing two good cds a year than releasing five crappy releases and i wish many labels would do the same.

In any case all these things are irrelevant to our previous discussion and i dont know why changed the subject here.

Quote:

On 2007-04-03 19:52, mouka wrote:
I said I can sell directly to the people 300 copies, no shop in between! That was my point about pressing 300 copies. And like I said there is profit, so please read my posts well before using big caps



I noticed already that there is no profit goal in your imaginery label and thats why i also suggested to you to join the Red Cross or Unicef or something like that,they would really appreciate your help there.I am not preety sure though that any serious artist is going to be interested in releasing his music in such a label,no serious money to receive from you,no advertisment,no exposure,no nothing except ofcourse the good of the music as you name it.

Well let me inform you mate that things just dont work like that otherwise i would do the same my self and break even on 850 copies instead of the 1500 copies that i need now.Things are not easy as you might think and i insist with no intention to offend you that you have absolutely no clue how things work in the music industry.Anyway if you think that this idea of yours can work then why dont you make things happen and tell us the results?           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
mouka
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  383
Posted : Apr 4, 2007 09:21
Sorry Detox but there is no point in having a descent debate with, you twist it like a jehova.

This topic was meant to get a discussion about the cd in general & not about how & how not to run a label.

For me I would love to see the cd hang around for some more years and I try to make that happen by releasing music.           www.ajana-records.com
www.trishula-records.com
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