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Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - DJ who goes in red in the mixer...
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DJ who goes in red in the mixer...

fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  982
Posted : Jan 24, 2008 19:13
If the PA is good I don't go into the red, only if the song is badly produced will I go in the red, to make it loud enough, but in those cases it's only a few peaks that get distorted, which doesn't have such an impact on the overall sound. You also have to leave a little headroom on the master, because it always peaks a little more while mixing. So it all comes down to PA... The opposite also exists. At some parties you see the master channel on the mixer turned way down, because the PA is too loud (not a good thing either, in those cases you have to pull down the amp volume untill you can open the master to +80%). I think only amateur dj's will go in the red without good reason.
Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  63
Posts :  1252
Posted : Jan 24, 2008 19:47
I was of course speaking of not big and professional systems PA
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  52
Posts :  711
Posted : Jan 24, 2008 20:46
I had the same problem quite a few times in small familly parties... I dont care if some people leave because it doesnt sound as loud as the previous DJ! At least it is clearer and people come back after a while, and start having a real trance experience because sound becomes crystal clear

What I do is stay 1 led in the red all the time on each channel, and adjust the master level accrodingly: it is a signal for me: if it doesnt reach the first red led, then it's too low. If it's two in the red, then it's too loud. Simple, huh?
bluespectralmonkey
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  80
Posts :  1336
Posted : Jan 25, 2008 09:11
WHAT????
bro say again



still cant hear u

WTf
DUDE ITS SO LOUD

WHAAAAT?
          www.bluespectralmonkey.com
www.touchsamadhi.com
www.interchill.com
www.metacrew.com
www.nw-psy.com
pavaka
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  87
Posts :  805
Posted : Jan 25, 2008 11:55
Quote:

On 2008-01-24 19:47, Stregone wrote:
I was of course speaking of not big and professional systems PA




whats the point of this thread then? if the pa has low output, eventually most of the dj s go red..
          www.soundcloud.com/pavaka

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Raoul V
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  583
Posted : Jan 25, 2008 11:58
good thread

in goa this year EVERY mixer i got behind was maxed out by the previous dj... i hate this..
at one party where i was doing a ping pong i tried explaining to the other dude (a seasoned goa dj) that red is bad... so he looks at me takes the levels down to just under for the channel and the output... and booom theres no sound (rather very little of it)....

unfortuantely a shit rig is a shit rig and loudness at the price of distortion as much as i hate it is sometimes a necessary evil
Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  63
Posts :  1252
Posted : Jan 25, 2008 12:36
I think it's an important thread...
zafer
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  65
Posts :  290
Posted : Jan 25, 2008 14:13
what happens often is that the org imagines/knows that dj's have no self-control: reason why the org is sure that at some moment no matter the overall loudness dj will boost volume far into red...

so if the org doesn't want loudspeakers or amp blown or burned, already puts from the begin the amp volume so low that even with mixer gain at max overall loudness won't exceed PA material specification limits, that's why...

and it's useless trying to talk with dj and explain him and expect from him/her respect of this simple rule (=not more than 0 or +1 on led-meter), i'm ready to bet that there are more unicorns at this world than dj's who don't go in the red

and i have some more to add but no use in insisting
bye
Upavas
Upavas

Started Topics :  150
Posts :  3315
Posted : Jan 27, 2008 22:37
Dj's who go red in the mixer ... unfortunately there are tons of those morons out there. And they keep on distorting and making it louder and louder... probably because their ears are all screwed up... instead of making what they play sound good, they make it sound loud. To hell with all of them....           Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/
acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  431
Posted : Jan 28, 2008 18:30
DJs who go in the read should use Urei mixer with -20 dB attenuation.. So they can bang as hard as they want without destroying mixer and amp..
Sadly, I have been at one party where djs played trance quite loud but it was good, than after minimal came in to place all meters went to red, I was telling those fools to lower it cause I cant hear a thing cause of distortion but they kept banging.. Amplifier was literally melted, top plate just melted apart.. After they bring another amp they did same thing with it and burned the mixer..
So guys, keep it in GREEN!           http://www.myspace.com/djacidkills
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Rex Trueform


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  150
Posted : Jan 29, 2008 15:04
It`s a constant problem.
Lots of dj's think louder is harder.
If you know what you`re doing with your tunes you rely on the music rather than volume.

WHenever I play I always end up turning down the volume to a level where the track is kicking but still clear.
I can`t stand a small system pushed beyond it`s limits.
Or worse a small system with the base cranked so-that you only hear base.
Showcase


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  6
Posted : Jan 31, 2008 07:23
Pro Audio equipment is designed to run at unity gain throughout a system. This concept is called gain structure. The referencing on this equipment will range from a negative value (ie -40) to a positive (ie +10). In between these is 0. If gain on a channel of a DJ console is pushed above this level it obviously creates distorsion, turning nice dynamic waveshapes into harsh square waves. Same applies for the output stage of a console into an amplifier, or compressor/limiter.

If a DJ is pushing these levels into the red, there are a few reasons for it:
1. DJ Console does not put out enough output. (Common with Pioneer Mixers)
2. PA is not powerful enough for the event. (In which case the promoter/organiser needs a slap across the head for being a tight ass!)
3. Limiter has not been set up correctly. Not enough headroom has been allowed for and there is no dynamic range.           It's the bizzo.
acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  431
Posted : Jan 31, 2008 09:21
Quote:

On 2008-01-31 07:23, Showcase wrote:
If a DJ is pushing these levels into the red, there are a few reasons for it:
1. DJ Console does not put out enough output. (Common with Pioneer Mixers)
2. PA is not powerful enough for the event. (In which case the promoter/organiser needs a slap across the head for being a tight ass!)
3. Limiter has not been set up correctly. Not enough headroom has been allowed for and there is no dynamic range.



This could be reasons in some cases but the main reason is DEAF DJ. And that thing goes in the loop cause if u gain too much you lose hearing and eventually u must gain cause u dont hear properly.. So I wouldnt blame PAs, mixers and organizers, I would just throw a bottle on a mo-fa for making me deaf like him.. Those such of mo-fas dont deserve any mercy, throw them out of the club immediately when your ears start to hurt and get yourself behind the decks           http://www.myspace.com/djacidkills
http://soundcloud.com/acidkills/dropbox
UnderTow


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  1448
Posted : Jan 31, 2008 13:43
Quote:

On 2008-01-31 07:23, Showcase wrote:

If a DJ is pushing these levels into the red, there are a few reasons for it:
1. DJ Console does not put out enough output. (Common with Pioneer Mixers)
2. PA is not powerful enough for the event. (In which case the promoter/organiser needs a slap across the head for being a tight ass!)
3. Limiter has not been set up correctly. Not enough headroom has been allowed for and there is no dynamic range.





This is all true in theory but as acidkills points out, some DJs are just deaf and stupid.

I remember at the second Samothraki festival one of the well known DJs was clipping the DJ mixer on the main stage. Every kick drum went crack crack crack. The FOH engineer just kept turning the volume down so as not to destroy the great 80.000 Watts PA system.

At some point the volume was so low you could have a conversation at normal talking level right in the middle of the main dance floor. I glanced up at the FOH engineer with a questioning look. He just pointed at the DJ and shrugged. What can you do?

Of course the DJ should have been kicked off the stage, not paid and never booked again but I guess friend's politics got in the way.

UnderTow
UnderTow


Started Topics :  9
Posts :  1448
Posted : Jan 31, 2008 13:54
Here is another story a friend told me: He was doing the PA for a massive hardcore rave in the Netherlands.

DJ Gizmo was playing and had everything turned up on the DJ mixer and of course, everything was clipping. My friend walked up to the DJ and told him to turn everything down. The DJ would turn things down a bit but quickly return to his ridiculous levels and my friend had to tell him to turn it down again.

After a few times the DJ said it wasn't loud enough and to fuck off. (This was another 80 KW sound system and it was indoors).

My friend was fed-up so he just turned up the 5KW DJ monitors to full blast. Apparently the DJ jumped and scrambled for the knobs and faders as fast as he could to turn things down. The rest of his set was fine.

UnderTow

Trance Forum  Forum  DJing - DJ who goes in red in the mixer...
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