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dj skills and software ?

Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 20:18
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  2095
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 20:29
Quote:

On 2007-06-27 19:45, Jester Records wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-06-27 16:40, spinalpuppet wrote:
tools are just tools. maybe software gives anyone world class beat matching skills but all that means is you have other creative possibilities opened up as a dj.
2 tracks always going at once, one with a high pass filter and vst BPM synced effects on the track...can't do that with decks.



you can get 100% on your Math test by hiding the book under your desk and cheating.. doesn't mean that by the end of the day you know what your doing....




I suppose it all depends on what it is that you are looking to achieve. If you are looking to provide an excellent sound to the people that you are sharing your music with, and you have more time to improve the sound instead of consuming unnecessary time to beatmatch by using technologies that are provided to us from some of these softwares is a better answer. Without doubt!!

If you are someone who mainly cares about beatmatching because it is "proper" or not considered "cheating" and this is more of a concern to you than having the extra time to provide an even better sound than using cdj's is the way to go.




i think i'll choose modern technology



           "On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others"
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 20:39
beatmatching takes no time so thats not an excuse to go by software.. sorry...
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 21:26
Quote:

On 2007-06-27 19:45, Jester Records wrote:
you can get 100% on your Math test by hiding the book under your desk and cheating.. doesn't mean that by the end of the day you know what your doing....


There is some quite good mathematicians who use calculators rather than calculate everything by hand.
Cheating means that you are breaking some kind of rules...on some exams you can have books so you don't have to keep them under the desk...where can I find the rules for DJ'ing?
Did you and Dennis write them and think that people who don't follow your rules cheat and need to ask for excuse?
LOL...what a load of crap.

To be frank I don't give much for you or any other close minded and stuck up their own ass "authorites" and do what I think feels right and give the best result.
Give me some arguments why CD's would be better or why software is bad and we can have a discussion.
So far the only arguments for CD's and against software has been on a purely emotional 2nd grade level and it really makes me wonder if fear of new technology is related to some form of mental retardation.

Sorry for being harsh....but if you keep on calling people for cheats and saying they need an excuse for doing what they do you stuck out your necks IMO.
Come back with some real arguments and prove you have brains and can use them or just don't bother post at all.           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 22:06
well, i can only speak for myself.. I find it very emotional to touch the media. Push it, break it, scratch it. There are no rules (Except that dj's dont share needles) I love going thru the case to find the next track. i Love finding cuepoints, for me its a part of the dj thing. I dont think i can get that feeling with a laptop.

Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton

Started Topics :  128
Posts :  2899
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 22:13
btw, fear of new technology? there are coming new cdj's all time... Its not about fear of technology.
Hardware is more psysical, like you become one with the music..

hmm, lets say like hardware is like having a nice girl infront of you and software is like watching porn on the internet...
spinalpuppet


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  87
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 22:21
Quote:

you can get 100% on your Math test by hiding the book under your desk and cheating.. doesn't mean that by the end of the day you know what your doing....





your stupid comment there is directly in line with guys in rock bands who play guitars who think electronic music isnt real music because your not playing an instrument. you have no point.
Pavel
Troll

Started Topics :  312
Posts :  8634
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 23:10
We are all forgetting that the client is always right, and if in the future you'll be able to alter the tune in a cool way by sneezing or by erecting your penis than it's great.
Imagine a world where your source material is just that, where a dj can really alter the tune from the foundation. All you old school fanatics are standing on the way of some cool gadgetry.
I'm off to practice my newly built erection sensor.           Everyone in the world is doing something without me
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 23:22
Quote:

On 2007-06-27 22:06, Dennis the menace wrote:
well, i can only speak for myself.. I find it very emotional to touch the media. Push it, break it, scratch it. There are no rules (Except that dj's dont share needles) I love going thru the case to find the next track. i Love finding cuepoints, for me its a part of the dj thing. I dont think i can get that feeling with a laptop.


Ok...that's fine...if it's something that fits you emotionally you should keep doing that then...at least while they still make CD's and CDJ's

Although I must say that I have trouble seeing how anyone who actually had proper go at DJ'ing with Live and a nice controller can say that you feel closer to the music using CD's.
For me CD's is like having sex in the dark with clothes on compared to full tantric bliss with the access, visualisation and control you get using Live.

But I will never say things like "i dont think mixing with CD's is beeing a dj" like you do against software DJ's...nor discuss what "excuse" you have for choosing an IMO inferior medium.
That's your choice and as long as you have good track selection and can make nice transitions your choice of technology is not something I will pass judgements on.
          (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Jester Records
Jester Records

Started Topics :  24
Posts :  254
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 23:30
No its not acctually.

Okay, i guess my previous points weren't the greatest arguments..

okay, here goes nothing.

When i first started to mix, people always complained about "fake lives"... now, what is a fake live ?? a live act performed by artist "X" but when in reality the tracks belong to artist "Z" ??

Or is a fake live when artist X pre-records and just presses play and pretends to touch knobs ?? (automation = today's technology) yet we still feel it is fake. well, i somewhat agree but then again, i remember all the studio time invested by the artist to produce and master and automate and perfect his music, so we can give him a break when it comes time to "perform", no ??

what does a Dj do? yeah, we get to pick and choose tracks, Eq them together, make the transitions and all this using a little creativity also.

So if we are to compair in any simular way what the definition of a "fake Dj" would be, i think many would think towards any way of automating one of the already small roles a Dj has to do while performing. A dj's mission isn't to reconstruct tracks, its just to make smooth, comprehensible transitions between tracks while getting the crowd to respond to the music. So if a Dj starts his set with 12 tracks in his "cue" (playlist), already pre-beatmatched and ready with those already pre-determined "mix-points", then yeah, that sounds like more than half the battle being accomplished..

Sure, we could all use soundforge to cut 3 minute clips of everyone's tracks and just paste them together making it sound like a new track, giving it a new title and telling our friends "hey, listen to my new track", but i am sure down the line we would end up with a black eye.

Yeah, i must be closed minded i guess..

and yeah, like Dennis said, the feel of "control" is always a + .. and i don't mean control of a mouse !!!

at the worst, use final scratch, and even then, i dunno.........

was this a little better?? i can find more examples but my brain is tired from learning to beatmatch lastnight.. lol.. ;P

ohh, and you are right, the word "cheating" might have been a little harsh and i am sorry for that one !          www.jesterrecords.ca
Jester Records
Jester Records

Started Topics :  24
Posts :  254
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 23:37
I also see it as if we were to join the olympics while taking sterods as apose to training hard in the gym !!!

          www.jesterrecords.ca
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Jun 27, 2007 23:55
@jester
Sure, like I said before, anyone showing up with a pre-made playlist is IMO not much of a DJ.
That has nothing to do with the medium to do though.
I've seen people pretending to DJ with CD's but actually playing only a premixed CD.
That didn't make me think that CD CD's are fake...

Anyway...we been over this before...what you are talking about is not technology but rather individual behaviour.

Drugs is quite different than making use of the latest technological advancements, but luckily we don't have any international DJ association showing up on events making drug tests and making sure that everyone still play vinyl so no one get's an unfair advantage....it is not a competition so that is not really relevant.           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Jester Records
Jester Records

Started Topics :  24
Posts :  254
Posted : Jun 28, 2007 00:20
Quote:

Spindrift wrote:
Some points why I think software DJ'ing is superior to CD's/Vinyl:

1) Ability to instantly trigger loops and fx in sync with the music.

2) Good overview of your collection and not having to make considerations like if next track you want to use is on the same CD as your currently playing.

3) An enormous selection of fx available to spice things up and make interesting transitions.

4) No time spent cueing and beatmatching means more time to do creative stuff and focus on track selection.

5) Graphical waveform display is a great aid in making good transitions.

6) It keeps you busy in the DJ box....no waiting for the right time to kick in next track...instead you mess around with some fx or play around with a loop.

7) You can get very nice converters for your laptop that will beat the ones in a CDJ.

8) Hard Drive jockey sounds a lot cooler than Compact Disc jockey




Lets examine again why people prefere to use a computer to mix than doing it yourself ...

1) loops can be really cool i must agree, and this point is probably the best reason i've seen in a long time, but is it really why people start to mix music? to create new loops?? sounds like fun none-the-less.. i give you a + on this one !

2) This is a matter of habit really and can be a disadvantage as an advantage. When and if you have alot of music in folders, it might be more confusing to scroll through TONS of mp3/wav's rather than flipping a page to see your Cd covers. I will disregard this point..

3) I thought that the transition part of mixing was to beatmatch tracks and Eq them together.. yes, some added effects would be cool, but then again you could always just bring an effecxtor (external effects box) taht can give you infinite possibilities of Fx's (its probably lighter and cheaper than getting a laptop with a decent enough soundcard to not trash the output of the music. I'll give you a - on this one..

after 3 points, we are tied !!!

4) no time spent cueing and beatmatching?? wow, that sounds like spending the rest of my life smoking fatties on ibiza !!! Automation, automation, automation. it sounds too robotic to me and it makes things "too easy", hence why i find it "some-what cheating" or taking the easy way out of things. I rate this one a -.

5) Besides finding your breakdown's before they happen, i don't see the use of watching your wave form as you play. We should generally already know our music in the first place so its not really an advantage. Besides, some CDj's show them as well. Lets say = for this one !

6) I don't know about you, but ensuring that two tracks don't off-beat for 2 minutes straight keeps me busy enough in the Dj box. If i had a third CDj, i'd use whatever extra time to cue up my next track or run off to the bathroom to take a piss. But yeah, loops are fun and can be used while you wait. Some CDj's have that feature as well, but they don't seem easy to use. So yeah, if you are looking to save time using a PC, then i guess its a +.. i'll call it = though..

7) i can't really comment on this one because i have no clue what you are talking about. (converters aren't my field)

8) no comment !! lol


__

So in the end, if your looking for an easy way to make transitions, while insted of focusing on acctually mixing the music together, than PC's are for you. If you want to avoid the stress of beatmatching and focus on finding interesting places to insert loops, then this is for you. If you like to watch your music move forward durring a party insted of listening to it, buy a PC and stare away.

If you want to directly control your beatmatches and feel the music as you blend them together, knowing that a slight push in the wrong direction will un-sync the two tracks playing, stick to Cd's.

it was a close fight, but i would never make the switch !!

have fun, i guess!
          www.jesterrecords.ca
Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  2095
Posted : Jun 28, 2007 01:57
Quote:

On 2007-06-27 20:39, Dennis the menace wrote:
beatmatching takes no time so thats not an excuse to go by software.. sorry...



yes it is.

time can always be used for creativity and to enhance quality.


it's part of the many reasons why using mixing softwares has it's advantages.

What is the goal of the dj or artist?

i believe for me, it is about providing sounds that people want to hear. it's about the people not the dj. There is no doubt that the mixing softwares that are provided now a days has more abilities to be creative and provide more time to enhance quality of sound than using cdjs. Period!!! if you dont know this by now, then you probably really havn't looked into it too much. Now if you for personal and emotional reasons as mr. spindrift has formentioned think that using cdjs is the way for you, because you can get more of a "feel" to it, then i think that is ok. and if that's what you like then great and keep doing what makes you happy. But degrading dj's because they use laptops seems to be pretty cynical to me, and what makes it even worse is that you speak through ignorance when you don't even know all the facts. Which sort of sounds a little silly.
I know if i dont know too much about a specific subject matter, i will not opinionate in depth about it because it will probably make me look slightly foolish.

It's ok to have an opinion that you believe is for you, but to degrade another, especially not knowing all the facts to me seems to be somewhat scornful.




           "On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others"
spinalpuppet


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  87
Posted : Jun 28, 2007 08:23
Jester Records, the best analogy really is when people use to argue on the 604 list about how cds sucked to dj compared to vinyl because they sounded so much colder, you couldnt put your hands actually on the cd.
its the same exact thing and that whole idea slowly faded away and was absurd. 10 years from now no one will be spinning cds, everyone will be spinning with software.
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