Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
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Posted : Jul 2, 2007 12:54
Quote:
On 2007-07-02 11:33, fohat wrote:
and yes it has been mentioned before a couple of times: there is nothing bad in using any media as long as the dj gets the crowd shakin'. if he fails than it's nothing more then him being not a good dj.
What about an IPOD with a prerecorded set, or 1 big wav on a cd? Why even mix it at the party? Why even appear on stage? Send your set to the organizers and ask them to press play. as long as the crowd is shakin everything is good right?
On 2007-07-02 11:33, fohat wrote:
and yes it has been mentioned before a couple of times: there is nothing bad in using any media as long as the dj gets the crowd shakin'. if he fails than it's nothing more then him being not a good dj.
What about an IPOD with a prerecorded set, or 1 big wav on a cd? Why even mix it at the party? Why even appear on stage? Send your set to the organizers and ask them to press play. as long as the crowd is shakin everything is good right?
that's what actually most artists do, when performing their own stuff ;-)
seriously, do you assume that just for the reason some dj appears with a laptop his set must be be premixed or preformatted or at least prelisted?
Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
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Posted : Jul 2, 2007 15:54
On 2007-07-02 15:54, Dennis the menace wrote:
yes i do, atleast until i see its not
kindly invited
Jester Records
Jester Records
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Posted : Jul 2, 2007 23:59
Quote:
On 2007-07-02 15:54, Dennis the menace wrote:
yes i do, atleast until i see its not
Exactly, and it if isn't, well, it would take about 10 minutes to set up an entire set, perfectly beatmatch them and then add your effects to them.
And i think everyone is missing the point here (besides Dennis). My examples are taken to extream measures to make people understand. Gosh darnit,its not about being cool or people telling you that you are cool. I read above that its all about the "Feedback" you get from people, to improve "quality" .. what quality ?? does a computer allow you to make stuff sound better?? What feedback can you get as a software dj ?? "wow, those loops were cool durring the Skazi track??" or "maybe you should have added some effects durring the breakdown" ??
Dj = Mixing + Track selection + Beatmatching
Software easly complete two of the above three, so that would leave "track selection".. if people need feedback on track selection i don't think they should be "mixing" in the first place.
And NO, you cannot compaire artists useing software because it takes them numerous hours of work to complete a track, not simply minutes to get a flawless set ready.
Software allows you to be creative right ?? then make music with it. Show your creativity at its fullest and then get your feedback.
Its like buying a puzzle, putting it together and then asking people if they like the puzzle. Its not like you drew the puzzle in the first place. what do you expect people to say ?? "i really like the way you connected those two peaces in the lower corner" ?? i mean, its not like they didn't go there to begin with ....
Exactly, and it if isn't, well, it would take about 10 minutes to set up an entire set, perfectly beatmatch them and then add your effects to them.
I have no idea where you pull your stuff from.
You think it takes 10 minutes to prepare for a set when using a computer??
I wouldn't like to come when you play if that's how much time you spend apart from practising cueing and beatmixing.
Or is it your idea that the computer selects and mixes the tracks for you?
Sure you don't have to practice beatmixing as much, but that doesn't mean listening to music is enough preparation.
I've spend a lot of time configuring my setup , warping tracks, writing autohotkey scripts, creating loops and fx...etc, etc.
When it comes to preparing I think it's the CDJ's that is taking the easy route.
Quote:
And i think everyone is missing the point here (besides Dennis). My examples are taken to extream measures to make people understand. Gosh darnit,its not about being cool or people telling you that you are cool. I read above that its all about the "Feedback" you get from people, to improve "quality" .. what quality ?? does a computer allow you to make stuff sound better?? What feedback can you get as a software dj ?? "wow, those loops were cool durring the Skazi track??" or "maybe you should have added some effects durring the breakdown" ??
Err...what about nice track selection and nice transitions?
Obviously the only feedback you are interested in "wow...you can beatmatch"
Quote:
Dj = Mixing + Track selection + Beatmatching
Software easly complete two of the above three, so that would leave "track selection".. if people need feedback on track selection i don't think they should be "mixing" in the first place.
Does live have an automix function?
Does any traktor DJ's use the automix?
No.
The only way the computer helps you in making transitions is visual feedback and a greater variety of effects to use, but it's in no way automatic.
If you need feedback about how good you can beatmatch using inferior technology you shouldn't be selecting tracks in the first place.
Quote:
And NO, you cannot compaire artists useing software because it takes them numerous hours of work to complete a track, not simply minutes to get a flawless set ready.
Software allows you to be creative right ?? then make music with it. Show your creativity at its fullest and then get your feedback.
I do make music, but I like to have maximum creative potential when DJ'ing as well, and hence I use Ableton.
If my goal wasn't to give the best possible experience to the crowd and rather to show off my skills to boost my ego I would be using DAT since that obviously sucks for the purpose and actually makes the task really hard so it's worth showing off with.
I sure don't get impressed by the fact that someone can beatmatch with CDJ's at least.
Quote:
Its like buying a puzzle, putting it together and then asking people if they like the puzzle. Its not like you drew the puzzle in the first place. what do you expect people to say ?? "i really like the way you connected those two peaces in the lower corner" ?? i mean, its not like they didn't go there to begin with ....
So now CDJ'ing is more creative....it's like you actually created the music just because you play from CD?
You are really good with analogies...
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jul 3, 2007 00:46
mr. Jester, i suppose we will have to respectfully agree to disagree with one another.
You seem to think that laptop dj's are "cheating" or cutting corners, and that they shouldn't recieve hardly any respect and you also seem to believe that "feedback" from people regarding one's mix that they created on their laptop has no bearing or importance. Which i find to be absurd........
Mr. dennis the menace, as you all ready know or should know, a good dj will provide a sound that the crowd wants to hear. It may be a sound that they are eagerly expecting, it could be a sound that they have never heard before, either way it is a sound that is meant to be appealing to the ear and the body. Many times, a dj can play in front of a crowd, and they don't know what to expect, and the sound can be odd and generally disliked, do you think a good dj will force what he wants people to hear upon them if they don't like it? My answer would be no, he will read and react to the crowd and still keep his sort of sound, but will try something different to make sure that the people are enjoying his tunes. This happens many times, where a change of plans has to occur. So, obviously bringing out a prerecorded mix foooks up the possibility of that happening.
But hey, but who am i to say anything?
what ever floats your boat....
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others"
Jester Records
Jester Records
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Posted : Jul 3, 2007 06:24
You guys are probably right as i mentionned earlier, i still just have a hard time digesting it.
Spindrift : do you have an pictures of what it looks like when you are spinning using LIVE ? i'd really love a screanshot ! help me understand !!
www.jesterrecords.ca
Here is a screenshot of Live but I guess it wont show you that much.
http://www.resonantearth.com/tmp/liveDJ.jpg Basically I have two channels for tracks, one for loops and one for hits.
The only parts of the screen I have to actually keep an eye on during a set is the file browser on the left and the waveform display at the bottom.
If you rather not look at the waveform it can be hidden away easily.
To do stuff like loading tracks, setting cue points and loops I use this little keypad so I never have to touch the mouse:
http://www.resonantearth.com/tmp/keypad.jpg That gives me start, cue and stop for 3 tracks, navigation in the browser with the arrows, undo, +/- global tempo, view folders, load track into curretly selected slot, move cue point, move/set loops, follow waveform, loop on/off...etc, etc
Then I have an Ozonic to control fx and trigger loops or hits:
http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/Ozonic.jpg The eight knobs is assigned to differnt fx in Live (HPF, LPF, BPF, redux, phaser, fade to grey, beat repeat, delay) and I choose what track they should affect by changing preset.
The faders is fixed to set levels for tracks 1-3 as well as 3 band EQ for tracks 1 & 2.
White keys are triggering loops and black keys fx hits.
Not to happy with the ozonic though since the output is really low.
I tried it out at a party last weekend and had to put the gain trim at the house mixer at max and still it was not loud enugh so I had to resort to using the EQ's on house mixer to get enough gain I'm prolly gonna swap it for an Indigo DJ and either an Novation ReMote or an UC33 & Trigger Finger.
The way to go would really be to build your own controller since it seems like everyone have different ideas of how to use Live and you'll be lucky to find something on the market that is perfect for you....just need more time and money...
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Jester Records
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Posted : Jul 3, 2007 23:27
Cool, thanks for the screenshot.. now you drag and drop tracks from the left onto your right-hand side thingy ??
where is the mixer ?? or does the computer output to two different channels on the mixer found at the party ? or you use your midi keyboard as a mixer ?
On 2007-07-03 23:27, Jester Records wrote:
now you drag and drop tracks from the left onto your right-hand side thingy ??
You can do it that way...although I use my keypad instead....just a press of a button instead of standing there fiddling with the mouse.
Quote:
where is the mixer ?? or does the computer output to two different channels on the mixer found at the party ? or you use your midi keyboard as a mixer ?
Each track have a fader below it and then you have returns for fx and a master.
I use the internal mixer in Live and assign the faders to my controller, but many prefer to output each channel into a DJ mixer and do mixing, cue and EQ on that.
Quote:
also, would you recommend Traktor or Live ? thx
Traktor is much more limited in it's abilities since it's really more of a CDJ emulation software than a Live performance software.
So you don't have the instant access to loops and fx like in live, no VST support, instant beat detection instead of the much more powerful and reliable (as well as time-consuming) warping in Live and maximum 4 tracks.
I guess coming from a DJ background Traktor will be easier to get started with though....but since your keen on doing hard work to get the best result I would for sure go for Live since it gives you a lot more abilities.
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Jester Records
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Posted : Jul 3, 2007 23:57
maybe i did have the wrong idea about software.. i guess its just from seeing people who do LIVE sets using "LIVE" have all there tracks lined up in the sequencer and just ready to push play and add a few effects here and there.. i didn't think there was a manual way of doing it. It really depends on who is using it in the end.. www.jesterrecords.ca
On 2007-07-03 23:57, Jester Records wrote:
maybe i did have the wrong idea about software.. i guess its just from seeing people who do LIVE sets using "LIVE" have all there tracks lined up in the sequencer and just ready to push play and add a few effects here and there.. i didn't think there was a manual way of doing it. It really depends on who is using it in the end..
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Posted : Jul 5, 2007 22:13
karmakanik
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Posted : Jul 5, 2007 23:46
one thing i havn't seen here yet, which warrants mentioning:
if you are a laptop dj (which is great if you know how to do it right), bring some @#$@#% CDs as back up!
this goes for live acts too... i can't tell you how many times i've seen people bring only their computers and then can't get it to work right, or it keeps glitching cuz they have too much stuff running, etc. etc.
