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As an artist...

Cane

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  47
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 03:16
Because art can't be sold, it is not an object or material. Some producers have artistical signs in their music but ppl usually buy CD not these signs which come less and less common these days.

Cosmix art is giving thing out from yourself not bussness which is = summed object gains + summed object losses.

Artists want ppl to hear his music but if he will distribute his music freely i do believe more listeners would listen (let's say there is no music piracy scene).
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 03:25
Thanks Cane...

I think that there are several different perspectives that come into play on this particular situation.. You have the perspective of the artist. The artists that rely on this music for their daily bread will focus upon maintaining their living conditions. This means writing more music and making certain that they are compensated for the WORK that they do. Those artists that make this music and do not rely on it as a stable source of income just enjoy the exposure and attention they are getting and if it nabs them a few bucks along the way, great!!! It's just something that they did because of boredom or passion and it's nice to see others show their appreciation, whether is monetarily or by a big thank you. The consumer sees that there is this big flood of music that is coming out on a regular basis and tends to assume that since there's so much of it, it must mean that it is in a sense disposable. Who's gonna care if I download most of my music instead of buying it, I'll pay money to see them play live and that will make up for it.
The Labels see it as an investment that was made in a person's abilities, banking it on the idea that if people really enjoy this person's music, the public will reward both the artist for their time and ideas as well as the label who took the chance and made the investment to get this music out to people.

Where things get screwed up is when the labels and artists see people ranting and raving about someones particular talents, but do not recognise the financial risks that were taken to get this idea out to the public. I would hope that the labels and the artist would care less about profits and more about making sure that they would be in a position to make that investment again either with that artist or someone different. So that the cycle perpetuates themselves.

Under the current state of what it financially takes to get a cd released, it is more damaging to the labels that have made this investment prior to the cd being released to see people already have songs on it previous to it's print date or shortly after its release..

Personally, if any label invests both their money and faith in my abilities and I deliver, I would be quite dismayed to see people that are enjoying the labels efforts without helping them continue to do what they are doing. It's not always about money, it really is a respect issue. Respect the label putting themselves at risk to provide the music to many people, not just those who know the right people. Unfortunately $ is how these things do get done. Other people that have their income rely on these labels bringing them business really aren't concerned over the philosphical debate of whether or not art is something that should be sold. Their work is to press the cds, do the mastering, ship the cds... A label cannot just send the cds back if the release got leaked on the internet.

I do agree that the current dynamic on how the music is released is not neccesarily as to the times as how fast our technology grows, but at the time compromise is reached by all sides coming to an agreement. As it currently stands, I don't really see too many of the sides really coming to that understanding.           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  97
Posts :  1220
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 03:27
mate if you go like this, you re saying that artists shouldnt get paid at all for their work...
not for cds, gigs or anything....

so from what do u think they should buy their gear for example?
          https://soundcloud.com/hazak

"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!"
MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  97
Posts :  1220
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 04:04
hahaha

Quote:

On 2005-02-22 02:51, Cane wrote:

...but you should really see the things goin on at music creation section when new musicians trying to learn bass structure or arabian scales using books when music is about state of mind which can't be daily work.



btw, do you think any artist was born with his knowledge?

everyone has to learn it from friends, reading, courses etc...           https://soundcloud.com/hazak

"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!"
Mahamudra (Sagiv)
Mahamudra

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  173
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 09:24
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 02:44, DETOX wrote:
Cane please answer the question.

Are you an artist or not?



Quote:

On 2005-02-22 02:51, Cane wrote:
No, i'm not.


[quot]Cane am i invisible or what?

ARE YOU AN ARTIST MATE?[/quot]
obviusly ur not invisible mate
and for you cane, as an artist i think we should get pay of course! as we spending lots of money on equipment ,, some of us paying rent of the studio (besides the rent of our home like evrry person)and when we make more money we buy better equipment to make better music, and i wont get into the whole story of things you need to pay for in the evry day life cuz im sure ya know it.
annywayz put the money away and think about the art... i wana see some one get a picture for free... you call the mona liza art? can ya get something like that for free? hell no cuz art cost money, so thnx god a Cd doesnt cost ya like the mona liza cost
(sorry for my poor english) :$
          --------------------------------------------
www.myspace.com/mahamudraaa

www.betarecords.com/mahamudra
--------------------------------------------
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  483
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 11:09
Cane man you are making no sence at all, I am sorry to say since when you walked into an art shop and walked out with a couple of paintings for free !? ART is ART man you have another income or you don't one must pay for it ! any form of art ! then again it's up to the artist to let go for free !

OK I found a solution for you send me money to buy equipment and I supply you with all the music for free how about that !?

And MadScientist to answer your question yes an artist is born an artist with creativity I never went to art school to learn to make paintings of coarse you one can go to art school and also music school but whats the point if there is not any creativity in you !

Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 11:55
I also think it's great if all artists would get paid for what they do.
Reality is not and have never been like that unfortunally.
So I agree with cane, that if you are really concerned about making a living out of it and not primarily doing it for love and fun you have to do like in any business. Find out what the customers want and adapt to that.

It amazes me sometimes how unaware many people seem to be about the old conflict between commercialism and creativity.
Unfortunally they don't automatically go hand in hand.
There is a conflict and some artists, but extremly few, is able to handle it really well and make good money by just doing excatly what they feel like.
Thats of course great, but is and always was a rare exception.
Most people have to adjust to the market or be happy with making music and get very little in return.

And my impression have never been like some people seem to think that you get more time to make music because you make a living out of it.
Quite the opposite.
If you dependent on the music for an income you have to produce 1-2 albums per year if you are not extremly sucessful.
Sure you can sit in the studio 12 hrs every day, but it's damned hard to do that and stay productive.
If you are not dependent on your music for an income you have all the time in the world to produce an album on the other hand.

I agree with Mubali that people should respect the people that invest in the scene by producing CD's.
But the labels also have to respect the fans by trying to adjust to their needs and demands.
It goes both ways, and as I see it both labels and fans is many times lacking in respect.

@ Mahamudra Crew & Kemic-Al
At least I have seen a lot of paintings without paying for them. And I have been given paintings as a gift.
Sure if you go into a shop you have to pay, wheather it's a CDs or paintings.
But shops have never been the only place where art excists.
To say that art costs money is about as clever as saying that "time is money".
Some people think that way. Personally both art and time has much deeper values to me than simply monetary ones.

I think that Jesus was right when he thought the should be no commerce in the tempels.
For me the trance scene used to be spiritual sanctuary in the overly commercial world we live in.
Unfortunaly that was only temporary.
Now people is worshipping Mammon instead of Natraj and the parties is big markets.
People make music in hope of having a cozy life sitting in the studio and get their living from their fellow freaks.
The commerce clearly takes away the spirit and the creativeness from the scene what I can see.

I guess It's only me who is a relic from the times of free parties and free music and have problem adjusting to the wonderful reality of a commercialized trance scene.           (``.(``.(``..`).`).`)
.....www.ResonantEarth.com.....
(.`(.`(.```.)``.)``.)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Cane

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  47
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 12:56
Kemical that's the problem you take music as job, i guess you enjoy crying how poor you are, eating junk and demanding ppl to pay for your useless production. When mp3.com offer many much better musical productions for free as many other free site with free real musicians. Real artist would never sell his art because it is his. He can sell the painting couple of years after he finnish to paint it but not to use brushes in order to live. The one who use brush to live is not artist but painter as work which has not alot to do with art.

btw Kemical you the one who make no sense, first you advertise yourself as new creative uncommercial musician and now you advertise yourself in most unwanted places on this forum without any reason for doing it or demanding money for something you call art which is not. You also should learn music because your tracks a very very low quality produced even for producer who lives out of selling music. So i guess you not successfull at any way musician or producer.

btw There is a difference between to learn notation or to learn scales. Notation is rule of music writing on paper when scales are ready notes which will always sound fit. So one that use it is already copying others music in first production steps when art is about feeling not rules.
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  483
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 13:31
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 12:56, Cane wrote:
Kemical that's the problem you take music as job, i guess you enjoy crying how poor you are, eating junk and demanding ppl to pay for your useless production. When mp3.com offer many much better musical productions for free as many other free site with free real musicians. Real artist would never sell his art because it is his. He can sell the painting couple of years after he finnish to paint it but not to use brushes in order to live. The one who use brush to live is not artist but painter as work which has not alot to do with art.

btw Kemical you the one who make no sense, first you advertise yourself as new creative uncommercial musician and now you advertise yourself in most unwanted places on this forum without any reason for doing it or demanding money for something you call art which is not. You also should learn music because your tracks a very very low quality produced even for producer who lives out of selling music. So i guess you not successfull at any way musician or producer.

btw There is a difference between to learn notation or to learn scales. Notation is rule of music writing on paper when scales are ready notes which will always sound fit. So one that use it is already copying others music in first production steps when art is about feeling not rules.

first of all I don't take my music as job ! and poor I am not ! just so you would now and I happily eat good everyday thanks with or without the music, and I never demaned peolpe to pay for my music they buy it if they only want too ! I tell you you how much I don't give a shit that my music was out before even was released and people had there chance and still do to get it for FREE and what the hell do you know about being an form of an artist !

and i did say you could go to school to learn notes music scales etc which in fact I did 9 fucking yeras of classical flamingo guitar ! or to inproove your art skills but since you have no creativity it's useless thats all I said !

And when you start to make any form of art youself paintings music or whatever then you can talk !!!

where you are most propably has just been born has has no experience whats so ever... judging by all your posts angry angry angry little boY !

And I have no reason to make another username on this forum to hide behind it so I can say what I like, like some do....

and as a matter of fact peolpe are playing my useless productions LOL

traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  234
Posts :  3803
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 13:43
A bit off topic but classical music training never hurt an artist..           "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  483
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:20
[quote]
On 2005-02-22 13:31, Kemic-al wrote:
Quote:


and as a matter of fact peolpe are playing my useless productions LOL


and also getting booked to play my useless productions too

MAYBE you are another yet one of those little sad & angry people who hides himself behind a pc monitor all day on isra fantasising that you make part of some scene ! LOL

and maybe perhaps you should get a life !
and do something with it !!! ... istead of critisizing something you have not got a clue about !

Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:36
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 13:31, Kemic-al wrote:
where you are most propably has just been born has has no experience whats so ever... judging by all your posts angry angry angry little boY !

And I have no reason to make another username on this forum to hide behind it so I can say what I like, like some do....



Sorry to interfere here Kemic-al, but from my impression Cane has been talking and bringing forth his opinion in a very reasonable way and having been following your posts in this forum for quite some time, it seems to me that it is you that carries a lot of anger inside.

Nobody here was talking about you hiding behind different usernames. Paranoid? All Cane said was, that you are heavily promoting yourself in many different threads. Maybe not hiding, but at least using three different names: Kemic-al, Aldo, Zaldonite.
          "*)
..*) .*)
(. (.` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..` ..`
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  483
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:54
@ponty you did not read all the post mate

So you think that he spoke to me in a reasonable way wow man !

well if I enter any thread and share my opinion is heavily promoting myself is that right ? or like I said I have to make another username to hide behind it ! is that right or not !!?
and btw zaldonite is an oldusername that I don't use any more , kemic-al is a production name and aldo it seems that I am even showing my name which represents my label, ....where am I hiding at ?


Pointy


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  278
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:58
Quote:

On 2005-02-22 14:54, Kemic-al wrote:
....where am I hiding at ?


You really are paranoid...
Nobody said you do.           "*)
..*) .*)
(. (.` * Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe..` ..`
Kemic-Al
Kemic-Al

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  483
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 15:05

man read the post properly don't be like anyone else just bla bla bla

well if I enter any thread and share my opinion is heavily promoting myself is that right ?

do you have an answer for that ?
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