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Antiworld, the "scene", bitching, and where UK trance is going
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Marchello
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
60
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 13:55
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On 2007-07-24 16:29, Justin Chaos wrote:
As well I saw recently (well...not that recently, time flies) 2 events happening in the same area, both licensed and ticketed one was in the Renaissance Rooms and the other at the Colosseum or something.
1 was 12 quid and beautifully decorated with a great conceptual treatment.
The other one was shite, but it was 8 quid to get in.
I guess you all got the picture of what happened.
It was, pretty much, the end of one of the most respected organizations in London with more than 3 years doing great events...I think that was a bigger disgrace than any other squatt party you might mention.
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Here we are...thanks justin for bringing this out..
Me, Marchello (Italian 100%) living in uk since 97, party goer first, dj-producer and one of the Fairy Tales promoter secondly (hehe also the others of the crew are italians..)I think I've seen a lot of changes in uk, good and bad but I'm not here to point the finger at others.
Here is my opinion..
Nationality doesnt matter, club-squat-outdoor? There is no difference if its made with love, responsability and respect for the punters. Here we r discussing something that could have been avoided some years ago IMO.
COMMUNICATION BETWEEN PROMOTERS THATS IT!!!
This is what we have failed.. At Fairy Tales We never put a penny in our pockets. When we had good nights (financially speaking), we always re-invested for the next one and when we lost money we always paid the people involved anyway..Just because we always put our heart at first...At the end only the promoters should lose money no the people working for them.. There werent so many squats few years ago and people were happily paying 12quids to go to clubs in 2000,going back to what Justin said, why now we r all looking for a cheaper option? Are we all poorer than earlier? Maybe..
Surely not everything is lost .. now, as many promoters might know, there is a uk-promoter yahoo group and hopefully from now on there will be more communication..
As you can see from the threads, Fairy Tales is doing only collaborations with other promoters, simply because we dont have any more money to gamble and we want to avoid to clash with other nights.. Next Fairy Tales could be in a club in a Squat or an outdoor venue, who knows.. What we know is that we will give our best anyway and we hope people will appreciate that..
Love and Respect
  M-theory & Cimi aka Dj Marchello
www.myspace.com/mtheoryuk
www.myspace.com/cimisounds
www.alchemyrecords.co.uk
www.myspace.com/furthurprogressions |
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Marchello
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
60
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 14:13
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[quote]
On 2007-07-25 16:59, Squat Merchant wrote:
Communication between orgs of course.
I agree...
Some orgs have better deco that others, whereas others have funktion 1 or opus at their disposal. Get it together and we can make psy trance look good again
I dont agree.. you will lose the diversity in the parties, I would easily get bored by the same decos sound and line ups
That is IF you want it to look good again in the UK
And to do that, we have to start making proper parties at the Academy again and invest alot of cash into it.
I always thought the Academy as a commercial showcase, so no suitable for psy-nights.. come on man, they dont open the balcony unless there are 4000 people inside, then have you ever checked how much it costs and what are the payment details in the contract?
24hr parties, without crap bang bang acts at 8AM, trippy stuff
That would be nice...
M-theory & Cimi aka Dj Marchello
www.myspace.com/mtheoryuk
www.myspace.com/cimisounds
www.alchemyrecords.co.uk
www.myspace.com/furthurprogressions |
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
1334
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 17:11
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Like Lux was saying... UK section is on fire 
Nice 2 see both new and old people from the scene involved in this discussion.
I sure hope it can benefit the UK scene, Please just keep it nice and civil lads.
Like some people said before when something is made with love and respect it is the best and I do hope some of you are able to make "Some" money form your events as it seems that in the trance scene people tent to forget we need money to live.
Less rain would also be nice.
BUju |
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 18:09
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-26 13:55, Marchello wrote:
Me, Marchello (Italian 100%) living in uk since 97, party goer first, dj-producer and one of the Fairy Tales promoter secondly (hehe also the others of the crew are italians..)I think I've seen a lot of changes in uk, good and bad but I'm not here to point the finger at others.
Here is my opinion..
Nationality doesnt matter, club-squat-outdoor? There is no difference if its made with love, responsability and respect for the punters. Here we r discussing something that could have been avoided some years ago IMO.
COMMUNICATION BETWEEN PROMOTERS THATS IT!!!
This is what we have failed.. Love and Respect
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Hi, Marchello. Good to hear your views on this topic at last. I expect much of your views re: Nationality is directed at my previous posts. Perhaps you have taken the "wrong end the stick". I'm not sure if you have, please let me know if you have taken offensive.
As i'm sure you are aware, i am one of the few English promoters who did support and help you right from the start as well as Simo, Kristian, the Chichime Crew, Shane Gobi, among many others who are not from the UK.
For a long time before that the UK scene had very little foreign interest, so i don't see why the subject should avoided. There are positive & negative elements to any change, and i have seen both.
My point was the observation that much of the bitching about the scene appears to be directed at certain promoters who are not British. You say that does not matter, my question was maybe it does (maybe it does'nt). Why avoid it? Because it’s taboo? You don’t think it matters, fair enough, but maybe that’s because you are such a great guy, and have been involved for all the right reasons, and don’t wish to see such problems.
As an analogy, go to any club, or festival, and you will see crap & rubbish left behind by fun loving party people. Would (the few bad apples) who are responsible for that mess act in the same manner in their own homes? No, but some do.
It's about priorities. This was my observation, i dont see that much bitching about english promoters. Why is that? My question was maybe some (the few bad apples) who just happen to be non-english promoters dont have the same respect for their foreign hosts.
Having witnessed the scene in Brazil first hand i can tell you that foreign promoters are not welcome there! Infact i dont know any country apart from UK that they are welcome. Maybe that's why there happens to be so many here recently?
Do you think foreigners would be welcomed with open arms in Italy like they were in the UK? Do you think it would get up the noses of local promoters if they started waving their national flags and calling their parties "invasion" like the Brazilian they have done here?
If an English promoter would dare to wave their own national flag in UK club/festival they would be criticized as racists/nazis and supporting the national front!
There is a saying i'm sure you are aware..."when in rome".
Here you state "There is no difference if it's made with love, responsibility and respect for the punters." I hope you will correct your statement and add you have also have respect for others in the scene and not just the (paying) "punters".
That’s all very well, but what if like Enrico who is on public record as stating his punters are mostly not English?
Why is that?
Does this mean if the majority of his punters are foreign/international he has no responsibility or respect for the English or those who do not wish to attend such events?
Lastly, why do you think your mate (correct me if I'm wrong) and fellow countryman Enrico has not responded to any of his “punters” questions on the huge threads regarding his distressful conduct here in the UK. I’m aware of the PR statement/apology that was obviously not written by him knowing his command of the english language. Do you have no opinion on that subject, or would it be best avoid criticizing the home team publicly?
I'm sorry to put all this to you Marchello, but so far apart from yourself i'm the only other promoter (with history in the UK/London scene) who has posted their views on this thread. Its a very tough subject to deal with, but i really think it's best to discuss this now (here on an international forum) and sort it out in public than to create chinese whispers or sweep any (potential) problems under the carpet.
I hope you understand. I really do have the utmost respect for you, fairy tails, chichime, shane (alchemy), and others, and it really gives me no pleasure in posting my observations of a scene that I truly love in disarray.
amore, luce ed unità |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
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3086
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 18:59
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You do have some points Mike...you really do.
OK, about the "invasions" I'll be quite frank with you...is out of ignorance and utter lack of respect.
These new brazilian promotors, e.g Venom, are not concerned at all about this scene.(yes I'm giving names)
They just squat a place, and out of nothing made a disgraceful party just to make a few bucks.
But, nearly, all the punters attending to this events (apparently that is what they are) share nationality.
And the few non brazilians are hoodies trying to sell pills and K.
Not really quality people if you ask me, but yeah...quantity over quantity appears to be the game nowadays.
Then, in the other hand...you have endless ticketed parties all with, pretty much, the same line-ups and in the same venues.
The way I see it London has seen the end of quality events so far, exception made for ocasional label parties and old firms colaborations.
:cheeers:
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
1334
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 19:09
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Who said K wasn't psychedelic??!  |
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Glen.C (Iboga Rec)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
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686
Posted : Jul 26, 2007 20:51
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Marchello
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
60
Posted : Jul 27, 2007 02:58
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Hi Mike..how r u doing? Long time mate..glad to hear voices of an astral phoenix rising back in our uk scene! I’ll answer your questions, obviously in a nice and friendly manner as always between us..
On 2007-07-26 18:09, Astral Mike wrote:
[quote]
“I expect much of your views re: Nationality is directed at my previous posts. Perhaps you have taken the "wrong end the stick". I'm not sure if you have, please let me know if you have taken offensive.”
..not at all mate, no offence taken! ..I simply wanted to say my personal opinion, that nationality doesnt matter in the scene..there r good Italians and bad Italians, good English and bad English, good Brazilians and bad Brazilians, and so on like everywhere in the world…
“As i'm sure you are aware, i am one of the few English promoters who did support and help you right from the start as well as Simo, Kristian, the Chichime Crew, Shane Gobi, among many others who are not from the UK.”
..eh eh eh, true.. I will never forget that you were the very first uk promoter to book me for Tyssen St! ...a great chance for a foreigner in London.. thanx again, I agree that uk is a very inclusive country and that’s why there r so many of us around here..
“My point was the observation that much of the bitching about the scene appears to be directed at certain promoters who are not British. You say that does not matter, my question was maybe it does (maybe it does'nt). Why avoid it? Because it’s taboo? You don’t think it matters, fair enough, but maybe that’s because you are such a great guy, and have been involved for all the right reasons, and don’t wish to see such problems.”
..yep, exactly that I do not wish to see such problems..it’s not taboo at all, you can talk about it if you want..I just don’t like the bitching and hatred between people sharing the same scene no matter where they come from..
“Go to any club, or festival, and you will see crap & rubbish left behind by those who want a great fun loving time.”
..totally agree with u and the Antiworld festival was the perfect example of disrespect towards nature and other people, never seen more rubbish left around!
“This was my observation, i dont see that much bitching about english promoters. Why is that? My question was maybe some (the few bad apples) who just happen to be non-english promoters dont have the same respect for their foreign hosts.”
...yep, u r right..some foreigners don’t care about the uk scene and its people at all, they just want to make their own parties, full stop, regardless of the country that is hosting them..
but I’d like to reiterate my previous point here, that in the end nationality doesn’t matter..unfortunately there are a few bad apples among uk promoters too..although I have to say they r just a minority, that’s why there’s no much bitching about them..in my experience I’ve always been welcome in this country and I think I have treated my foreign hosts with due respect..
I make an example, once Fairy Tales had to clash with perhaps the biggest uk organisation, which suddenly had decided to put up a party on our same date (already booked much earlier and publicly advertised on every forum and with flyers) ..we didn’t get any call or email from them to warn us of their intentions, they went ahead doing their own thing although we wished they could have made contact and worked together to find a solution..in fact, that night both organisations had a poor turnout as there was no communication whatsoever.. did they snob us because we were second class foreign party promoters?! I really hope not… more likely a lack of communication and unity.. I think bad apples can be of any nationality..
“Here you state "There is no difference if it's made with love, responsibility and respect for the punters." I hope you will correct your statement and add you have also have respect for others in the scene and not just the (paying) "punters".”
..that goes without saying.
“Lastly, why do you think your mate (correct me if I'm wrong) and fellow countryman Enrico has not responded to any of his “punters” questions on the huge threads regarding his distressful conduct here in the UK. I’m aware of the PR statement/apology that was obviously not written by him knowing his command of the english language. Do you have no opinion on that subject, or would it be best avoid criticizing the home team publicly?”
..of course I have an opinion, I agree with the large majority of points expressed against the Antiworld festival here and in other forums..should I repeat what’s already been said? enough of that..
I am not here to criticise and point my finger at anyone in particular whether this be my mate or not..that is my policy as a promoter and when I give my criticism to somebody it is done privately and not on a public forum..
..nothing to do with protecting the Italian home team..in fact, I consider London as my home!! ..although I am far from being English, I know how to make a proper cuppa and my best mate/music partner is a lad from Somerset! ..no Italian mafia here, no thanks..just tired of the bitching, let’s move on..
“I'm sorry to put all this to you Marchello, but so far apart from yourself i'm the only other promoter (with history in the UK/London scene) who has posted their views on this thread.”
…no worries mate, I’m always up for civilised and constructive discussions.. I thought to intervene because Fairy Tales was brought up, but I hardly ever write on public forums although I read posts.. let’s hope some more promoters will do the same..
“I hope you understand. I really do have the utmost respect for you, fairy tails…”
…Mike.. its spelt Fairy “Tales”.. u bagga! 
Eh eh eh…anyway it was nice to catch up with you and I hope we’ll see each other very soon.. maybe for a drink?
Take care Marchello
M-theory & Cimi aka Dj Marchello
www.myspace.com/mtheoryuk
www.myspace.com/cimisounds
www.alchemyrecords.co.uk
www.myspace.com/furthurprogressions |
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 27, 2007 03:20
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Marchello, i'm so proud of you!
You could not have responded better, well done bro! 
Btw, since when ever have i been any good at spelling?
I mean, how the hell did you get that silly DJ name "the hammer" anyway? 
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DJ Buju
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
1334
Posted : Jul 27, 2007 11:52
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On 2007-07-27 03:20, Astral Mike wrote:
Btw, since when ever have i been any good at spelling?
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Jason Chaos 
Mike you rock!
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
Posts :
3086
Posted : Jul 27, 2007 13:42
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Yeah Vijo...Galactic Ted rocks
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Galactic Ted
Started Topics :
0
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2
Posted : Jul 28, 2007 23:53
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Thanks Justin!
Ok, so the real problem is just too many nights, and not enough organization.
Back in the day everyone knew the score….
Otherworld had the 1st Friday of the month.
Science Fiction the 2nd.
Samsara the 3rd.
Return To The Source the 4th.
This was a time when tyssen street was also open, and you had pagan, pendragon, enlightenment, and others doing Saturday one offs.
There was actually very few other big venues being used.
Appears some order like this would be welcomed again.
At the moment all the promoters are haphazardly picking dates, and making a tangled mess in the process.
One exception is Tribe Of Frog who always take the last Saturday of the Month. We need more promoters to do the same thing. It may not solve all the problems, but it would be a damn good start anyway. |
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beardedwildthing
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
131
Posted : Jul 29, 2007 19:18
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i think you'll find that there is a lot more individuals who want to do parties nowadays,than before..more than 8 organisations in one month,especially in london,and how can u say "you cant do a party on that day cos i am"
this all seems like a bit of a daydream reality to me!
i think the only way it'll work is that quality will prevail..and that will mean some fuck ups along the way and loss of money,but people will surely remember which music and parties they will prefer..having said all of this.if u are in a club and no one can smoke,..they will more than likely,the punter this is,go to a squat party where they can smoke..even if the music and decor is crap...which quite often it is..
i think its a going to be alot more complicated than organising a non clash system..
but what do i know? |
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Galactic Ted
Started Topics :
0
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2
Posted : Jul 30, 2007 00:51
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Not sure i was advocating a utopian "non clash system". Just that Tribe Of Frog are sensible in their approach, and that maybe we can learn from past history.
Already there is a lot of collaborations/mergers of organizers which is due to avoid clashing.
I'm sure many promoters would prefer doing "bi-monthly" (every 8 weeks) than monthly, so that would allow many more organizations to be involved.
However I do think you are correct. There is indeed a high risk of significant casualties. Which always happens in overheated market "bubbles". |
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undertones
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
165
Posted : Jul 30, 2007 15:23
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hello! very interesting discussion going on here. i am a producer cum small time promoter based in manchester. i am from india and have been based here for a couple of years. i didnt go to the antiworld party simply because i dont see myself paying that sum of money for any party. i think that the whole idea is ludicrous. but then again, there are many people who did pay and go , how many was it, 5000 maybe? how many of these people were british? surely everyone knows what antiworld has been about before 070707. so why did so many people go there, paying that sum of money? of all the people that have been to shit squat parties and such like, where people are defacating all over the place, how many are british? as a matter of fact, of the people that were defacating all over the place, how many of those were british?
surely once uve been to a party, you know what the organisers are trying to do, whether they are trying to make money or actually making an effort to keep the 'scene' alive...
my point is, in todays day and age, its a freedom of choice. as a promoter/music lover, you can do what you like as long as the people are there to support it. as a trancer/music lover, you have the freedom of going to any party you like. none of the above has any barring on nationality. if anyone in this forum has a problem with whats going on in todays scene, all they have to do is make a choice. and if that means that they are not left with many options, then go ahead and make a party. and if i think its gonna be good, ill be there.
by the way, no offence to anyone. just some of thoughts that have been travelling my head going through what i think is a very important and relevant discussion. hope to see many more such! most of you probably dont know me, so if ur interested, find out a bit more about me and my music @ http://www.myspace.com/tartinitones
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