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Antiworld, the "scene", bitching, and where UK trance is going
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 01:32
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Firstly, the amount of 'talent' or 'respect' people think I do or don't have has no bearing on the validity of my opinions. I'm a smelly studio geek with long hair who doesn't get out enough.
Secondly...
I said it was very interesting as there has recently been an influx of promoters on Psy-Forum for whom English is not their first language. Most of them organise squat parties. Coincidentally, for the very first time threads have been started titled "Are Squat Parties Killing The Trance Scene??" and "Justafications for charging 10 pounds to get into a squat partyt?".
"Are Squat Parties Killing The Trance Scene??" has the most views of any thread in that section of the forum so it's obviously something that a lot of people are interested in.  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 02:56
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-24 00:53, koalakube wrote:
While Colin and yourself are totally enitled to have your own opinion on this matter,SO do I.
I believe that statements like yours are only a danger to the the society:blaming a category instead of an individual is only few step ahead from making a racist discrimination.
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There is nothing in what i have posted that is "racist".
I did however state that it was a controversial subject, but does that mean it should not be debated?
The whole psy-trance movement is an international melting pot of artists/dj’s, collectives & cultures working together. You obviously don’t know me, because if you did you would know that I have promoted foreign artists (including those from France, Germany, Israel), and spent months travelling and playing in brazil, and Europe. Incidentally I have been to India 6 times, and have only just recently returned after 6 month there. So…... Racist/ Xenophobic? No F**king way! In fact I was born in a foreign country (as was my mother), so I feel every right to say what i have.
Maybe you don't wish to discuss the subject matter because you are just pissed off with me?
However, just because a subject is "unpolitical" should not be a cover for those who wish to exploit & rinse a scene in a foreign country. This is not the same as suggesting ALL foreign promoters are money-grabbing bitches, just that its MUCH easier for the "few bad apples" to do so.
1. Enrico is an Italian. Fact.
2. Much of the uprising squat scene (which i suggested was a reaction to mega events such as enricos) is also run by foreigners (Brazilians i think). Fact..
Go check the UK Psy Forum site, there is a huge discussion/thread there on how the squats are KILLING the UK psy-trance scene and is heavily criticized.
One obvious question arises, if they all feel so strongly towards the music & vibe, why not channel that energy and try to lift and promote the scene in their own county?
I think its great that the UK is so diverse, with so much international talent here, but there does come a point when enough international commercial interest is enough.
There is a need for some form of healthy "balance", and it appears that threshold passed years ago.
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 03:58
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On 2007-07-24 01:32, Colin OOOD wrote:
Firstly, the amount of 'talent' or 'respect' people think I do or don't have has no bearing on the validity of my opinions. I'm a smelly studio geek with long hair who doesn't get out enough.
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Hi Colin!
Sorry, but that's a load of ole tosh!
Your opinions like anyone elses are only valid as much as the majority warrants them to be, which is again a matter of subjectively as i'm sure you are aware having long hair, and admitedly being all geekly an that.....
However, you are one of the mods of the uk-psy-forum, which i am damn sure is for good reason that directly relates to much "respectness" from every corner of the UK psy-scene.
I'd like to know how many other UK psy-trance artists (let alone international ones) are as old skool as you? Maybe Astral Projection, Etnica, Slinky Wizard or Simon posford?
Do you think if they spoke out publicly, their opinion would hold any weight?
As an ol'skoolish promoter who was many moons ago deeply influenced by your music & vibe (kundalini & 2 moons over balshwar), i think you have every right to some form of validity of opinion when it comes to discussing such an intimate topic regarding the situation here in the UK.
Also, much respect to Jason Chaos, Lurk, and all the others Dj's / Artists who actally care about this topic to have the balls to speak their mind! |
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dave arc-i
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 06:04
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i think the thread colin refers to entitled "are squats killing the scene" is slightly misleading
a more appropriate one could be "are squats rinsing the scene"
as someone who has been around this scene for many years in the UK all i can add is that they are doing absolutley nothing positive for psy-trance in the UK
we already struggle with being perceived as a bunch of drunken ketamine or other drug addled yobs by much of the world - well squats are doing NOTHING to change that view and in fact are enhancing it with the addtion of poor facilties - one recent example would be ONE toilet for over 1000 people resulting in people defacating on the floor - come on people ffs just where have your standards of decency gone? - and then the scummy thieves that are busy stealing from the people so out of their heads on ketamine they dont know or care - that isnt any sort of scene i wish to be a part of
now add to all that a promoter who decides to book a club maybe 3-4 months in advance - get a decent line-up together and invest heavily into that event only to discover 4/5 days before the long planned and advertised event a squat party gets advertised for the same date - it isnt exactly a level playing field
and then of course we have enrico milking the commercial side for all it is worth
hi mike - nice to see you back - the UK scene NEEDS people with a bit of spirit and backbone - you have been sorely missed |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 06:35
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 07:07
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-24 06:35, Colin OOOD wrote:
Dave I don't think it's fair to link the robbers with the people actually putting on the parties.
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OK. Colin, as an experieneced promoter who "knows the score" (having done events in yardie land), ie tyssen street, which i know for fact you hold in the utmost regard (correct me if i'm wrong), and for V.V.GOOD REASON, i can honestly say that every promoter (worth his salt) MUST/SHOULD have a clue about their surroundings & WHO they are marketing at. This more than anything else includes the venue area!
Disassociating the crowd from the promotion is nothing more than a lie!
The FACT that antiworld single handly destoyed every underground venue in its path from "the drome" to "tyssen street", and actually had the audacity to rubbish tyssen street venue owners as gun-slinging gangters/robbers after they rinsed it is really unfair especially after many glorious years & years of amazingly cosmic event there (all they way up to the night enrico showned his ugly face their!).
Coincidence?!
sorry, i forget... what do you mean by robbers exactly? because it's high time for a f**king reality check here! |
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dave arc-i
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 07:14
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scummy thieves are inexoricably linked to squats as they are a well know source of easy victims/tagett
i wasnt and cant see how you thought i was linking the promoters directly to the scummy thieves colin
what i DID say about the promoters of these squat parties is that they are rinsing the scene itself
funnily enough from the opposite end to enrico - i wonder how long it will be before they meet in the middle? |
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Astral Mike
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
258
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 07:36
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-24 07:14, dave arc-i wrote:
funnily enough from the opposite end to enrico - i wonder how long it will be before they meet in the middle?
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From what i saw, "psy-invasion" (brazilian squat mafia associated with that horrific venom shit fest party) were advertising (ie taking coin) from enrico's 070707 meltdown event on their website. And these rinsers claim to be underground?!! FFS ppl, wake up already.
And while we are on the topic... does anyone wonder what all those brazilian national flags were meant to represent at the 070707 festival? ...
I wont even go into the Israeli/HOMmega flag ego wank fest. Shame on you Eyal! |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
768
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 13:19
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Psy trance has always had its own strange hierarchy with putting on discos for grown seemingly up near the top of the kudos points. It is also – in London any way – one of the few ways to make cash from the scene. The high gains/losses to be made by putting on parties in the capitol plus the large amount of folk gravitating there to seek their fortune has always had a high turn over of promoters and a slightly more dog-eat-dog attitude than the rest of the country. You can see this by the short life span of most parties in London compared to the many parties outside the M25 which are heading towards 7, 8, 9 or even more years old.
I’ve got mixed view on the whole squat thing – on the one hand I’m slightly old fashioned and always felt that squat & outdoor parties should be done for the laugh and not for financial gain. But then again if you are happy pay a tenner to go to a squat - then more fool you & fair enough. The attractiveness of squats for the trustafarian element rife in psy (oooh a little bit rebellious) plus the lower investment needed (compared to clubs or bigger venues) for promoters wanting to make their mark means they are unlikely to go away.
(BTW I don’t want to single out any parties – BUT I was quite entertained by a flyer I got at the Glade called “Save the Planet” – what by taking drugs & dancing? I noticed it wasn’t printed on recycled paper either… tut tut…)
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koalakube
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
437
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 13:24
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On 2007-07-24 02:56, Astral Mike wrote:
You obviously don’t know me,
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Ehmm I now understand how much attention you are putting when reading someone else comment.As I wrote already about 8 posts ago "I dont know you".
But thanks for reminding me anyway.
"Racist/ Xenophobic? No F**king way!"
Well ,I dont know how you want me to think of you,but given the statement in the previous post......
balming on a category is doing discrimination.period.
Foreigner shouldnt run party?
If you have been around for so long,do YOU really want ME to give YOU a list of organizers (still nowdays actives) that are a mix of nationality?
"Maybe you don't wish to discuss the subject matter because you are just pissed off with me?"
No Im not pissed off at all.The fact that I dont call you "mate" every 2 lines doesnt mean I am angry.
But I disagree with pretty much everything you have been saying in the past 24 hours.
" This is not the same as suggesting ALL foreign promoters are money-grabbing bitches, just that its MUCH easier for the "few bad apples" to do so."
I dont quite understand your english here.
Im a bit worried that you point could be something like "because of few bad apples we gonna blame it to the whole bunch of good ones as well".
Brilliant.A step ahead to NBP
"1. Enrico is an Italian. Fact.
2. Much of the uprising squat scene (which i suggested was a reaction to mega events such as enricos) is also run by foreigners (Brazilians i think). Fact.."
ok.I can see the absurdity of the logic behind your "thinking".Is this the way you really think?
"One obvious question arises, if they all feel so strongly towards the music & vibe, why not channel that energy and try to lift and promote the scene in their own county?"
Brilliant.
"I think its great that the UK is so diverse, with so much international talent here, but there does come a point when enough international commercial interest is enough.There is a need for some form of healthy "balance", and it appears that threshold passed years ago."
Now youy start to sound like a BNP propaganda.
Regarding the squat parties,Id like to add few things:
The best music in the 90s was at Squat parties.Anyone who is in the known can confirm this.Squat parties have played an huge part in diversifing underground music from commercial music.Acid tecno,dubstep,drum and bass.They were all there at squat parties.
To me personally if you take the psy-music from the squat parties,you just doing me a favour
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dave arc-i
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 13:34
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so if taking psy music (sic) from squat parties is doing *you* a favour it then begs the question WHY and what motive/s you have for quoting comments such as yours on a board devoted to psy-trance?
it smacks of trolling or an attempt to inflame this thread in an effort to have it locked to my mind |
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koalakube
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
437
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 14:51
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Wrong.Ask before accusing.
I am simply not interested in going to listen to PSY in a squat party.
For me psy trance parties are good when made outdoor.
One of the few exceptions was the WARP EXPERIENCE,probably one of the few indoor psy events I could really enjoy.
Psy started to appear in squats party as soon as few people realized they could cash in on this genre without having to spend lots of money in production.
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dave arc-i
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 15:15
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which is the point we have been making
except
that it is impossible to get away from the fact they are Brazillians that are doing it and in turn trashing any chance UK promoters have of trying to put on something reasonable that people MIGHT enjoy
and in the same way that an italian - enrico has been rinsing the paid for commercial side of the scene - the people dont care about the scene they care about money and their personal ego-wanks
and it is those facts that are getting pointed out here and in doing so there is no racist element or sub text from the BNP - in fact in the "are squats killing the scene* thread previously refered to it is actually by a UK promoter bemoaning the fact that with such an uneven playing field nobody else has a chance of representing what psy-trance is about
and what it would appear that you and i love about it
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
Posts :
3086
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 15:22
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Now that I think about it...nowadays, there are about 2 british promoters doing good for themselves in London, the rest are all foreigners.
And there are different kinds of squatt parties, I attended to some with much better production and music than other parties with rented venues(In many of those you were there Dave Arc-i, doing your thing besides), besides in the squatts you get this feeling of total freedom, you can do whatever you want really, and they last for many more hours than a normal party.
I don't know...I agree that there should be a balance, I don't think is fair for a promoter to be working his arse off for months just to break even, only to see 3 squatt parties happening on the same night he's pulling out his event.
Comunication is the name of the game, but many times this squatt parties are run by very young students and they aim to attract their kind, this parties are a disgrace BTW and I agree that they should disappear asap...but this won't happen, and at the end of the day...the final choice is in the punters hand.
I fail to see a problem, unless you're just feeling blue because you miss the good old days.
Otherways, start talking with the other promoters, do collaborations...and maybe, without even realising you might as well be doing squatt parties.
PS:Koalakube&Mike this is not about you guys...so get on with it or see your posts disappear.
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 24, 2007 15:31
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On 2007-07-24 13:24, koalakube wrote:
" This is not the same as suggesting ALL foreign promoters are money-grabbing bitches, just that its MUCH easier for the "few bad apples" to do so."
I dont quite understand your english here.
Im a bit worried that you point could be something like "because of few bad apples we gonna blame it to the whole bunch of good ones as well".
Brilliant.A step ahead to NBP |
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Koalakube I think you're being far too paranoid here  In English, the phrase 'a few bad apples' is used specifically to avoid blaming the actions of a few members of a group on the group as a whole. Mike was deliberately avoiding saying what you're accusing him of saying. Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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