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Antiworld, the "scene", bitching, and where UK trance is going
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Paulbenn
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posts :
110
Posted : Jun 3, 2007 03:53
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Well then,
If the Twisted party topic isn't the place for it, let's have a conversation about the scene in general right here.
I for one was pleased to see the beginning of an actual interesting conversation starting there, but the topic (I suppose fairly, as it was off-topic; I have tried to name THIS thread in such a way as to avoid that problem) got locked. Personally I just think it's funny when people start getting personal, but apparently that's against the rules, so, bearing that in mind, lets try not to get bitchy.
We were starting to get on to, for example, how Enri and his crew could diversify musically without losing any of their audience. Lets hear it then.
Getting the ball rolling, I like Antiworld, I think they do a good job, and I like how they've made a big deal out of their nights. A bit of business sense is actually no bad thing.
I also like the way that they mix it up - they're not afraid to put some techno or house on at their nights, and their festival has got some brilliant names playing, many of whom I would love to see. Far from diluting the "authentic" psytrance vibe, I think this kind of genre cross-pollination is important - I really think that a BIG reason why psytrance can start to seem so stilted to a seasoned fan is because producers keep their influences so close to home. More variation surely has to be where this scene needs to go.
Oh, and please feel free to start calling each other names, that will really make my weekend ;p |
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Jun 3, 2007 04:22
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If anyone start calling anyone names here I'll personally ban him.
Also Paulbenn, you should not encourage people to disrespect each other, and at the first smallest disrespect this thread will be locked. And if this is not enough I'll lock the UK section.
Respect for the other users is our 1st priority. Without respect is not possible for Love, Unity, Peace or this forum to exist.
Please all users feel free to PM me and other Mods and Admins whenever you read anything disrespectful on this forum.
Thank you.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Paulbenn
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
110
Posted : Jun 3, 2007 14:03
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OK, but I really would like to talk about the substance of the subject I posted; I'll edit:
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On 2007-06-03 03:53, Paulbenn wrote:
...let's have a conversation about the scene in general right here.
We were starting to get on to, for example, how Enri and his crew could diversify musically without losing any of their audience. Lets hear it then.
Getting the ball rolling, I like Antiworld, I think they do a good job, and I like how they've made a big deal out of their nights. A bit of business sense is actually no bad thing.
I also like the way that they mix it up - they're not afraid to put some techno or house on at their nights, and their festival has got some brilliant names playing, many of whom I would love to see. Far from diluting the "authentic" psytrance vibe, I think this kind of genre cross-pollination is important
- I really think that a BIG reason why psytrance can start to seem so stilted to a seasoned fan is because producers keep their influences so close to home. More variation surely has to be where this scene needs to go.
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lurk
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
226
Posted : Jun 4, 2007 15:31
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I guess some of that is directed at me 
I haven't been to an Antiworld in years, I gave up going because:
a) for my tastes they represent the worst in psytrance
b) even if I did like the music, I wouldn't want to pay for an over-priced ticket to hear the same acts from the same label (not even label*s*) time after time.
c) there was (and as far as I know) still is minimal amount of effort put into the general production of the party. I get the impression is this is down to cutting costs and, therefore, increasing profit margins.
d) they always used to be dangerously overcrowded, which makes the party unenjoyable to say the least. I've heard stories that this is still the case quite often as well.
And I'm not even going to go into some of the dodgy stories I've heard, just because, that's what they are, stories (and I don't want to get banned by full_on ), but in my experience, there's never this much smoke without any fire.
So, given the above, it would be great if Antiworld started supporting some of the UK's (or Europe's) up-and-coming/ more "underground" talent (not just Dejavoo, one of whom just happens to be a resident DJ!), and try to help them find a wider audience. There's no reason why they can't have one of their big israeli headliners, and an act, or two, that their audience may not have heard about before.
Basically, Antiworld are the "MacDonalds" of psytrance, and until they start looking beyond turnover/profit margins, and start having their own innovative ideas, rather than just jumping on the latest popular bandwagon the whole time, I reserve the right to be critical of them. This does not mean that I am critical of the people who go to antiworld, that's their choice and if they enjoy it, fair play to them, but after everytime I've been to one, I've come away feeling that I've been "milked"/ripped off, just the way I do after I've had to buy a sandwich in UK motorway service station
Now, Antiworld aren't the only thing wrong with the UK scene, imho, and as I've started ranting, I may as well continue for a while The other major thing wrong with the UK scene, and this is almost 100% a London thing, is that there is no respect or communication from some other promoters at the moment, and especially some (but not all!) squat party promoters. A promoter of a medium sized club night, can work for months promoting their party, trying to do something a bit different/taking a risk by bringing in a dj or live act that hardly ever, or never, plays here, and then in the week or two leading up to the party, 1, 2 or even 3 squat parties can suddenly be on the same night, or weekend. The worst thing about it is, these promoters are doing these club parties for the love of it, all they want to do is break even and do something a bit different, however the squat promoters seem to be getting greedy and doing it for the money, as they have few overheads, and get to keep all the money from entrance, the bar and selling laughing gas, and in doing this under the banner of a "free" party, they are also using the same cheap, local easy to use djs and acts over and over again and they are effectively making it impossible for people doing small or medium sized club parties, as these promoters are losing too much money.
Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a place for both squat parties and club parties, but putting on psytrance parties shouldn't be a competition. All promoters should try to communicate with each other, and respect the fact that even in a place the size of london, there are only a limited number of people that can go out on any weekend, so if there are already a couple of parties on in a weekend, they should choose another weekend.
There is a good thread about this on www.psy-forum.co.uk if anyone is interested 
Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, or just a bit jaded, I don't know, but I've been going to parties in the UK for 14 years now, and there is definitely a lot more greed involved now than there ever used to be. Do it for the love, people, not money, "respect", or fame
I said no to drugs... but they didn't listen |
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Paulbenn
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
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110
Posted : Jun 5, 2007 22:46
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Ah well,
Fair play. I had no idea squat parties were big enough or known about enough to compromise medium sized nights now. I guess communication would be good all round cos surely the squats miss out on *some* punters who go to the official parties that they're coinciding with.
I also haven't been to an Antiworld for a long time but I remember that sometimes they were just stupidly rammed, espscially at the start (up the bloody stair corridoors in the Rex, fucking impossible). So, I had no idea how this thread was going to go.
I guess my problem with trance is that I'm just bored of trance, and while that's not an organisational problem with nights, as such, I think it would be great to see some multi-style parties with trance involved (much like Antiworld are doing at their festival). It might even solve the not-making-any-money problem that I know first hand can plague smaller nights. Look at the Glade festival. You could do that in a club, in a more limited way.
I DON'T understand trance purists and I would cream my pants if a regular night started where psy, techno and maybe house djs actually shared the main room rather than relegating one style to a broom cupboard ghetto. I've even seen this done BACK TO BACK at house parties but I don't think anyone would dare do that at a club. So yes, I want change, and I am a fantasist, but I think I speak sense.. So yeah save trance, promote techno ;p |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
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768
Posted : Jun 5, 2007 23:26
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I DON'T understand trance purists and I would cream my pants if a regular night started where psy, techno and maybe house djs actually shared the main room rather than relegating one style to a broom cupboard ghetto.
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Planet Zogg in Sheffield has been "joining the dots.. from trance.. to techno.. to psy" for the past seven years - albeit the trancie psy end of techno, the techie trancie side of psy and the psy techno end of trance...
Its probably becuase we came up through the festivals, megadog, samsara, RTTS etc route - but we've always mixed it up - though (hopefully) in a coherent sort of way...
We regularly used to have house Djs in our second room as well - but theres a big house free party scene up here... |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
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3086
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 10:30
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Quote:
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On 2007-06-05 22:46, Paulbenn wrote:
Ah well,
Fair play. I had no idea squat parties were big enough or known about enough to compromise medium sized nights now. |
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Not all, but yeah
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On 2007-06-05 22:46, Paulbenn wrote:
I guess my problem with trance is that I'm just bored of trance |
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Join the club mate
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On 2007-06-05 22:46, Paulbenn wrote:
and while that's not an organisational problem with nights, as such, I think it would be great to see some multi-style parties with trance involved (much like Antiworld are doing at their festival). It might even solve the not-making-any-money problem that I know first hand can plague smaller nights. Look at the Glade festival. You could do that in a club, in a more limited way.
I DON'T understand trance purists and I would cream my pants if a regular night started where psy, techno and maybe house djs actually shared the main room rather than relegating one style to a broom cupboard ghetto. |
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Point taken on mighty Glade, Antiworld is not my cup of tea anyway...they don't do that in order to diversify anything if you ask me, just to pack it as much as possible.
But I don't think they're evil or anything like that...is just the "mainstream" aimed to a certain crowd, which is not really demanding of anything, fair enough...is a company in the business of making money...and I don't see a problem on that at all actually.
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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bRaNdSkI
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
62
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 12:31
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Dear lurch, However right you may think you are in your convictions I dont think you realise how bitter you make yourself sound mate. I dont know you but let me guess ... a failed DJ ? |
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floatyhippyflower
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
538
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 13:05
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Quote:
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On 2007-06-06 12:31, bRaNdSkI wrote:
Dear lurch, However right you may think you are in your convictions I dont think you realise how bitter you make yourself sound mate. I dont know you but let me guess ... a failed DJ ?
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Erm no. He DJ's quite a bit in the UK, as does his missus, is signed with Sonic Dragon Records for whom he A&Rs, and recently played a set at Daytrippers a couple of weeks back, where many munters would end up after Twisted. He also has a comp out at the moment http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/son/son1cd009.html which features a number of established as well as up-coming artists, and has been received well (if the reviews I have read is anything to go by.) Perhaps it is this experience and love for the scene, both as a punter and DJ working within in, that informs his strong opinions? It's all subjective anyway isn't it?!! |
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lurk
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
226
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 14:39
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thanks floaty, it is all subjective
i'm also playing at glade this year, and in the past have played all over europe, in india and in australia. I've never tried to make a career out of dj'ing, it's always been a hobby to me, something that gives me a massive release once, or twice a month. I've always had a "proper" job to pay the bills, and I'm sure that if dj'ing/the trance scene became a "proper" job, it'd soon lose all it's magic for me. For me my involvement in parties as a punter/dj/whatever can't be separated, and I have a right to give an opinion about something, just as anyone has a right to say anything about any party I might put on, or set I play, or the cd I just put together. This is just me though, I'm not saying that everyone else is, or should be, the same.
i got a pm from someone (which I will reply to btw) about this saying that I wouldn't turn down a gig at antiworld, and I wouldn't… I never said I would. I would do it for nothing… but I wouldn't sacrifice my musical "values" (if that's not too strong a word), just to play a load of tunes that the antiworld punters would be expecting to hear, they would get my "version" of good trance. Maybe they'd like it, maybe they wouldn't, but at least they would have been opened up to something just a little bit different from what they usually are.
I am not bored of trance and I've been listening to it for nearly 15 years (half my life!). I was bored of trance for the last couple of years, but recently things really seem to be picking up again musically, and it seems like the music has gone through one of it's periodical lulls, and is getting some energy again (or maybe that's just me too ).
I completely stand by my general comments about antiworld and the london scene, and I really don't see how that makes me sound bitter. Luckily Antiworld and london aren't the be-all and end-all of what is going on in the UK, and anyone who thinks it is should explore what else is going on in the rest of the UK. Apart from Glade & 07/07/07there are some seriously good, small festivals going on this summer; Sunrise, which has just been, and was amazing, Shamania, Wickerman and Waveform to name only a few. If you haven't checked any of these out, then you should, because in my very humble opinion this is where you'll find all the fresh ideas and really good vibes
I said no to drugs... but they didn't listen |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
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117
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3086
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 15:18
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On 2007-06-06 14:39, lurk wrote:
Apart from Glade & 07/07/07there are some seriously good, small festivals going on this summer; Sunrise, which has just been, and was amazing, Shamania, Wickerman and Waveform to name only a few. If you haven't checked any of these out, then you should, because in my very humble opinion this is where you'll find all the fresh ideas and really good vibes
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Well...about the music, again, it's subjective, but I'm with you 100% on the really good vibes comment, last year I went to NewFoundLand...and it was one of the best experiences I remember in my whole festielife.
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 15:28
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I DON'T understand trance purists and I would cream my pants if a regular night started where psy, techno and maybe house djs actually shared the main room rather than relegating one style to a broom cupboard ghetto. I've even seen this done BACK TO BACK at house parties but I don't think anyone would dare do that at a club. So yes, I want change, and I am a fantasist, but I think I speak sense.. So yeah save trance, promote techno ;p
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you're clearly a fan of electronica and not psytrance.. so your comments need to be taken with that in mind. when i was a fan of alternative/metal i would have bleak to have gone to a tool concert only to watch matchbox 20 support them.
why can't a genre be exclusive? why does everyone have a problem with that? antiworld parties are the very bottom rung of the international psytrance ladder. overplayed overrated acts mixed with techno and hard house attracts an ugly crowd of people. and i personally prefer to have space to dance than rub up against some sweaty person cooked on 46 pills. forgive me my tastes but the spirit of psy does not exist within this realm.. and its by design that this status quo exists. big production and commercialism begets bad vibes.. it took me all of 48 hours in London to discover this fact (at infected in brixton).
why is dark psy, full on (night), full on (day), progressive, minimal, tech trance not enough for you people who advocate a mixture of genres. bring on psy-breaks i say, but house music and psytrance do NOT mix! one is psychedelic, the other isn't.. back to back?? that is the most ridiculous suggestion i've heard.. and it leads me to believe you know little of the genre beyond the 4/4 signature.
i love London the city, i love the people, and i've had great fun here at parties.. but at the end of the day i'm leaving because psy must be done in the sun, and its a rare occasion here.. and while the outdoors may be filled with great people, and have awesome lineups.. the price of tickets and the mixture of genres puts me off.. not to mention the fact a particular promotor is charging £50 a ticket to a small fest and refuses to pay the artists. now THAT is just opportunistic.. riding on the coattails of ambition for an extra few quid to blow on ketamine.
every county in europe has it right, why can't the UK follow? i mean no true disrespect for Uk as a country, as I am half english and have lived here for years.. and I love it.. but psy here has a corporate element i thought only existed in israel.
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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John
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
768
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 16:02
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Quote:
| but house music and psytrance do NOT mix! one is psychedelic, the other isn't.. back to back?? that is the most ridiculous suggestion i've heard.. and it leads me to believe you know little of the genre beyond the 4/4 signature. |
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Thats told the prog fans! |
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 16:57
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but i like prog.. prog IS psychedelic.. i said "house music and psytrance don't mix".. prog = "progressive psytrance" does it not?
also, i take back what i said above about the "small festival promotor".. it was based on misinformation (and downright mean).
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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Paulbenn
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
110
Posted : Jun 6, 2007 20:20
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On 2007-06-06 15:28, Caligula wrote:
you're clearly a fan of electronica and not psytrance.. so your comments need to be taken with that in mind. when i was a fan of alternative/metal i would have bleak to have gone to a tool concert only to watch matchbox 20 support them.
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- Outed! I'm not suggesting that people should be *tricked* into turning up at a party and seeing different styles. The artists would be on the bill; you'd get a different mix of people, which I think would be healthy.
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why is dark psy, full on (night), full on (day), progressive, minimal, tech trance not enough for you people who advocate a mixture of genres.
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Because I'm bored of 70% of all of those.
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bring on psy-breaks i say, but house music and psytrance do NOT mix! one is psychedelic, the other isn't.. back to back?? that is the most ridiculous suggestion i've heard.. and it leads me to believe you know little of the genre beyond the 4/4 signature.
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Oo!
I would tentatively suggest that my moving away from trance is based on a pretty solid understanding of it and history with it, thanks - I don't think I need to run through my "credentials", but believe me, for a long, long time psy trance has been my absolute favourite party music and I've gone at it like a lunatic, but now I'm getting fed up, so here I am *explaining why* and making suggestions.
All I'm saying is these different styles *could* go together. Some styles WOULD work well mixed together if you chose the right EXAMPLES of the genres. Never heard of a cross-over hit? In all styles of dance, there are some artists and tracks that emphasise the musical elements that are usually not so predominant or absent from the main body of the "style". "Neighbouring" genres will be more based on these elements so will go together with some of these tracks.
If you think that is the "most ridiculous suggestion you've heard", then maybe YOU haven't got an eclectic enough record collection.
Additionally, forgive me, but I haven't noticed very much that IS psychedelic about a lot of recent trance. Samples that TALK about tripping don't make for a psychedelic tune, nor do fucking chainsaw noises or thrash metal guitars imho (yes, yes, I know there is plenty trippy trance but let's be honest, it's getting rarer). I tripped at Glade and the most psychedelic act I heard there by a country mile was Richie Hawtin, because that shit is SUBTLE and gives your imagination room to breathe, not beat you round the head with a sample of a woman talking about magical crystals. Disclaimer - not saying all trance is bad, or dissing you. Just want more variation.
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