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The Mother of all Mastering thread
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mk47
Inactive User
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118
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4444
Posted : Jan 4, 2007 12:32
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a question about `loudness` in the final mix .. there was a thread about but i cudnt find it .. now what id like to know is how to get released tracks level (vol) without making a wav and opening it in wavelab etc .. thats too complitated for me just yet .. i start with kick / bass at -6/-7 and adjust all other elements to fit around that .. then applying L3 `hi res cd master` preset and slamming the threshold to -10 / -12 to get desired loudness .. am i killing the `dynamics` / sound quality ?
also .. wats the point of starting kick . bass at -6/-7 ? how is it any diffrent from just grouping or individually pulling down the faders in the mixer ?
thnx
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Jan 5, 2007 08:17
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nobody answered my noob question ... cmon ppl , help a little plz
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 5, 2007 11:26
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you mean that the kicks waveform peaks at -6
so in this case you wouldnt need to touch the faders at all casue its already fixed. hmm i never thought about that, usually the kick is peaking at maximum..
i always wonder about input mixing and post fader mixing, are there any basic rules, like the input should be as hot as possible? and then you have much headroom to mix with the post fader..
this is from the cubase SX html helpfile
"On the Mixer context menu, opened by right-clicking anywhere on the mixer panel, there is a submenu named "Global Meter Settings". Here you can make settings for the preferred meter characteristics, with the following options:
If "Hold Peaks" is activated, the highest registered peak levels are "held" and are shown as static horizontal lines in the meter.
Note that you can turn this on or off by clicking in any audio level meter in the mixer.
If "Hold Forever" is activated, the peak levels will remain until meters are reset (by clicking the numerical peak display below the meter).
If "Hold Forever" is off, you can specify for how long the peak levels will be held with the parameter "Meter's Peak Hold Time" in the Preferences dialog (VST page). The peak hold time can be between 500 and 30000ms.
If "Meter Input" is activated, meters will show input levels for all audio channels and input/output channels.
Note that the input meters are post input gain (Cubase SX only).
If "Meter Post-Fader" is activated, meters will show post-fader levels.
This is the default setting for channels in the mixer.
In Cubase SX, there is also a "Meter Post-Panner" mode.
This is similar to "Meter Post-Fader", but the meters will reflect pan settings as well.
If "Fast Release" is activated, the meters respond very quickly to level peaks.
If "Fast Release" is deactivated, the meters respond more like standard meters."
anyone care to elaborate on this.
do you mix the input levels first, setting up the synths master levels so they are hot enough without clipping, and then change volume with post faders, or do you set up the volume from input as you want it and dont bother with post faders?
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implant
Started Topics :
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12
Posted : Jan 21, 2007 07:02
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Hey Freeflow,
you should set your samplers and synths to play as loud as possible - without clipping, of course. The key is not to overload the mixer in Cubase (or any other sequncer) by pushing its faders too much up to get level;
thats the problem with software recreations of analogue mixers - they dont react the same to that particular action:-) I worked with some SSL (AWS 900) and various Neve and Allen and Heath mixers and its sometimes even desireable to push them into red. It sounds NICE 
Back to the Cubase mixer; let your samplers and synths play for you. Assuming that you got good samples and carefully chosen synth and other sounds (which is probably the most important part in getting the good mix and master) and you treat them well with compression and eq, you should have no problem to get enough level...try to keep levels pumping into that safe "green-yellow" zone without pushing that Cubase faders to the top:-)
The peaks in your mix should depend on the bit depth of your project. If you work in 24 bit project, peaks should be around -6dB on your master bus. Ok, you can let couple of peaks over -6, but try not to let the very loudest peak in your track go over -5dB.
If (for some reason) you work in 16 bit, peaks should be around -3dB. Again, the very loudest peak should not exceed -2dB.
Never render your mix through limiters, compressors or other "gain pumpers" inserted on your master bus. That is a big mistake; master bus in Cubase (Logic, Sonar...) is the most fragile part of an already fragile mixer. If this wasn't the case, than Neve, Trident and others wouldn't make big money by selling us summing busses (master busses, in other words). Insert limiter, eq and other stuff if you want to hear how your mix will probably sound when it's mastered and to make some tweaks to the mix if needed, but never render a mix through that stuff. Mastering should be done in other software, like Wavelab or Forge (if you want to master your mix yourself or can't afford real mastering). I usually import the mix into Pro Tools and then use Sony DAT machine,TC Finalizer 96k and Apogee Rosetta 200 converter for mastering. Hope this helps and sorry for my bad English. Greetz,
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etnarama
IsraTrance Full Member
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96
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510
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 01:09
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Djones
IsraTrance Senior Member
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267
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1766
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 21:31
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I wonder what's fixable with mastering and not.
Now for example I'm having some trouble to get some good punch tightness to my kick/bass
But if I would continue with the track, is this then fixable while mastering the track, preferrably by someone else?
It's just that now I finally get some good depth and lowend to my kick, but now it sounds wobbly and not tight, and the combo with bass sounds not tight either.
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Cannabis
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
246
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 22:08
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 21:31, Djones wrote:
I wonder what's fixable with mastering and not.
Now for example I'm having some trouble to get some good punch tightness to my kick/bass
But if I would continue with the track, is this then fixable while mastering the track, preferrably by someone else?
It's just that now I finally get some good depth and lowend to my kick, but now it sounds wobbly and not tight, and the combo with bass sounds not tight either.
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This sound like an EQ problem. The Kick and bass freqs are clashing and canceling or phasing eachother out. Try less Hi-freq fo Bass/more low freq for kick combination OR the other way around.
But you CAN'T have both Kick and Bass with lots of low end. This of course makes it WOBBLY.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Feb 11, 2007 04:30
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Feb 18, 2007 18:53
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 22:08, Cannabis wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 21:31, Djones wrote:
I wonder what's fixable with mastering and not.
Now for example I'm having some trouble to get some good punch tightness to my kick/bass
But if I would continue with the track, is this then fixable while mastering the track, preferrably by someone else?
It's just that now I finally get some good depth and lowend to my kick, but now it sounds wobbly and not tight, and the combo with bass sounds not tight either.
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This sound like an EQ problem. The Kick and bass freqs are clashing and canceling or phasing eachother out. Try less Hi-freq fo Bass/more low freq for kick combination OR the other way around.
But you CAN'T have both Kick and Bass with lots of low end. This of course makes it WOBBLY.
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As the character of the kick comes a little higher up from the subs is'nt it possible to have the subs near identical to the bass as to keep the energy more constant at this level? I always (well more often than not) have a multiband compressor with a band specified to the lower area to keep things sounding a bit more controlled and any impact in the kick different from the bass comes 100-200hz higher. I always figured this is a better option than leaving it for the mastering process as it defines the character of this end of the mix and is therefore more relevant at that stage. |
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RenderingRebel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
293
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 10:41
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Question regarding mixing before mastering:
Im about to send my finished album to the mastering engineer(Sillicon Sound) but i want to give my mixes a last review.
I was wondering if it might be a good idea to add some compression and eq'ing from the uad project pack.
And friend of me has a uad card (live in the same house)
I was thinking about bouncing everything from my projects in groups(percussion, leads, bass, kick etc.) and then rearrange it in cubase to add some dsp compression to brighten the percussion etc.
Is this a good idea or can i better keep it all "clean"
Thnx in advance.
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Cannabis
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
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246
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 15:56
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I would proceed as follow:
I would get the mix as good as final product.
Mastering should just give it the punch(compression) and levels(limiting). Not even EQ should be required at mastering stage.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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3709
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 19:12
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Hey implant - thanks for the information
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
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1441
Posted : Feb 23, 2007 14:08
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Hey guys,
I'm supposed to send some tracks to a label. What i want to do is send two cd's one with shitty mastering done by yours truly and the other with my mixdowns..
I bounce in 32 bit, so should i just leave it at that bitrate for the ME?
I'm not really sure i understand dithering and what stage it is done at..When doing home mastering at what stage will i apply dithering and how exactly do i go about it? I usually just change the bit rate using the bit-depth converter in soundforge..Should i insert the dithering plugin in cubase on the master output?
I'm a little confused about it all since i work in 24 bit but bounce in 32 bit..So any pointers on when and how to change the bit rate would be appreciated!
Also how much headroom should i leave for the ME? The mixdowns usually have an average RMS of -17db..Is this good enough?
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Cannabis
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
246
Posted : Feb 23, 2007 15:28
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You can't bounce your mix to 32bit. It is just internal processing bitrate.
Just bounce it to 24bit for ME, both for your master version and your mix down version b4 giving it to ME.
For your mix version, leave 5db(peak) headroom for ME ------------------------------------------------- |
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Andrew
Voice Of Cod / Zuloop
Started Topics :
14
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218
Posted : Feb 25, 2007 16:33
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