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The Mother of all Mastering thread
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1392
Posted : Jun 18, 2006 01:22
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Not all high pass filters are the same. There are differences in slope (6dB/oct, 12dB/oct ... 48 dB/oct). There are also differences in phase response. Some high pass filters set to 30Hz can have effects on the phase of the signal all the way up to 2Khz or more. Some are resonant, some are not.
Also keep in mind that these filters are not brick walls. There is still stuff below the high pass filter cutoff frequency. Usualy, the cutoff frequency is equivalent to the -3 dB point. So if you set your filter at 30Hz, it means that the output is 3dB down at 30Hz.
In theory, if you have very good monitoring and accoustics, I would say just trust your ears. In practise most of us don't have the type of monitoring and/or accoustics to really be able to judge what is going on at these very low frequencies.
The best solution is to stay on the safe side and keep the high pass filter quite low. (30 Hz or lower) Or even better, if your material is getting mastered by a pro, leave the low-end untouched and let the mastering engineer set things right.
I am talking mainly about the kick or a filter on the stereo bus. The bassline can usualy be filtered a bit higher than the kick. Whenever possible, use a linear phase hipass filter as this will keep things clean and punchy at the bottom end.
UnderTow
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lerryn
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
6
Posted : Jun 22, 2006 12:16
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it's good undertow!
Dose anybody here use mid-far feild monitors for mastering?
im thinking of buying some PMC's
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jaws
Jaws Underground
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
32
Posted : Jun 29, 2006 19:09
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
334
Posted : Jul 7, 2006 08:58
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UnderTow is spot on. In fact, the low end and the lack of farfield monitoring in the average project studio (as compared to "nearfield plus sub") is IMO one of the most compelling reasons for getting stuff mastered elsewhere. But never, ever pay for ridiculously expensive mastering...diminishing returns sets in quickly on mastering $$$. The MAIN value of mastering elsewhere is that second pair of trained ears, and that brain which has been informed of the SOUND you are going for...so if you want PURE sound with no loudness war levels then they need to know it, and if not, then they need to know that too.
And if you are mastering for the internet, like a 128kbps mp3, and not a CD or LP release, you're better off just getting the mix sounding great, inserting a linear phase EQ on insert 1, high passing around 70Hz, low passing around 100-150Hz, then sweeping the high pass slowly down until the rumble starts to lose its rhythm and sound annoying. Sometimes this can be as high as 50Hz or 60Hz, seriously. Depends on how much of a trainwreck the bass and kick are. After that, an adaptive multiband compressor, a readahead limiter, and you ought to be done in my not so humble minimalist opinion. 
Rave on 
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
510
Posted : Jul 8, 2006 01:04
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wow mr Undertow have enligthened one more time my life! ehehehe. man this u writes down about the highpass filters is so truth. I was asking myself why the hell when I'm using the the lowcu or the highpass standart in Logic audio it Dont cut all the freqs! just lower them.. man, tell me please a good BRICKWALL filter. that cuts all below the boundries we've apllied.. is there any as this?
thanx again for the usefull info
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xaBBu
xaBBu
Started Topics :
8
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146
Posted : Jul 8, 2006 19:27
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As undertow said , there is not ...
In Filter theory a filter is always specified by its cutoff/passband points, which as you will notice are always given as a frequency/dB pair. Also the so called optimal filter would be the brickwall filter you are talking about , but in reality all filters are just trying to get as close as possible to the ideal filter. the notation 6dB/oct ...24dB/oct etc. just says how steep the slope of the filter is. as undertow said, the frequ of the filter is given relative to the point of -3dB.
Its all about the ratio of the different bands to each others, what will make you percieve the sound different... e.g. if you highpass with a filter a couple of times you will achieve that the low frequ below cutofffrequ will get so small compared to the high content your ears will give you the illusion of the them not being there at all... that is where psycoacustics come into play ... best to read a couple of googles there 
and always remember ... human ears are not linear but more quite based like on a logarithmic scale .... -3dB means half as loud in terms of the energy content at cutoff frequency.
if you are still unsure what the heck I am talking about have a look at: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
cheers,
xaBBu
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D-Alien
Oxidelic
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
510
Posted : Jul 11, 2006 18:26
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heeh xabbu thanx.
just dont be so rude as man u dont know how much "googlies" one have to read. for evrything! but its like better asking the things directly here... and speking with friends, u know...
google is for lonely ppl eheheheheehhe
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Serag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
201
Posted : Jul 17, 2006 17:25
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the best thread, all my questions have been answered. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1691
Posted : Jul 18, 2006 07:19
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yeah real nice thread! heads up for all you people! 
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XuN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
69
Posts :
345
Posted : Jul 25, 2006 19:18
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Nice thread really good hints here.
But does anyone have a walkthrough for mastering in FL Studio 6? |
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Drunken Monk
Started Topics :
6
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416
Posted : Jul 27, 2006 22:43
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Quote:
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On 2006-06-09 23:21, Psychodelium wrote:
... bla bla bla...
why dont you leave that for professionals?...
... bla bla bla... and the beat goes on...
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cause its good to know things
and in our scene.. well u must dig in to a lot of stuff..
i totally agree with frekuancy..."There is no perfect mix, there are always things that might be improved even nature improves itself using the evolution laws"..
cheers 
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Drunken Monk
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
416
Posted : Jul 27, 2006 22:48
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Quote:
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On 2006-06-11 00:49, UnderTow wrote:
The dither noise is 80dB or so below the actual signal. Who can hear that after a few hours of banging beats and a few hundred micrograms?
Is that enough information?
UnderTow
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cheers UnderTow..
'to be on topic'-PS: and yeap this is dither..
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
490
Posted : Aug 24, 2006 14:50
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Quote:
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On 2006-06-13 14:43, e-motion wrote:
try replacing then with compressors. i do use limiters sometimes in the kick and bass group but with minimal attenuation.
PS: if you want some err agressive hats and snares try distorting them instead of limiting. tube distortion is my favorite for this. you can also over-compresslimit the source as a send effect and mix it with the original to keep the dynamics.
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you can use a limiter just nicely on the individual leads or drums. just be aware that it squishes FLAT anything that crosses its threshhold. sometimes the ONLY thing that will tame an errant lead is a limiter. the dynamic can BETWEEN the parts- i mean the MIX can be dynamic- some leads just shouldn't be dynamic- its not robotic enough:)
you are correct mr D-Alien in wanting to control the individual parts so they play together in the mix better.
this is what is called "fixing it in the mix" because it will be really hard to specifically turn down that lead when its part of a big audio file (the mix)
and you dont want to just turn that lead DOWN do you? thats what dynamics processing is for- pretty much everything except the kick and bass especially if there are phasers and things that "tilt" the sound plane...
fyi Kjaerhus GEQ has a 48db highpass available and a linear phase option:)
for a plug in chain in soundforge/wavelab try this followed by a multiband comp/limiter using only the desired bands followed by brickwall limiter with dither...
but izotope has everything you would typically use in this regard so in this case mr D-Alien you would simply give up your L2 and just use the izotope's mastering limiter... read the izotope mastering pdf off their website also- its a free download and it is a great resource when working with this peice of software... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
98
Posts :
3665
Posted : Aug 27, 2006 03:49
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only thing i can say in mastering thread , is .. use tim shuldt service .. damm , good result.
i wont mention names , but im very disapointed from some realeses i had.
"pro" isnt the one who have the gear.. its who have the ear. and the brain to figure what evry step makes.
my 2 cents about home mastering: (with wavlab spectrum analyzer)
try to get to diagonal spectrum , exept low end that need to get down to give space for other sounds.
in rms (can check with paz analizer) , around -10db is pritty much cool.sometimes i like it abit more compressed to rms -9db.
also , try to make this setting for compression before limiting to get more rms
tresh -20db , ratio 1:1.2
hardly noticeable , and glue evrything together and also you can pump it up with normalize after.
another compresion is to reduce peaks (after normalize , not necesery after the other compression)
tresh -2 db or -2.5 db , ratio 1:2 or 1:3
not sure which supose to come first , i think peak reduction ..
another trick made nicely in izotop ozone
compress , then expend with diffrent settings , so u dont loose dynamic just change it
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Aukikco
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
37
Posted : Aug 28, 2006 20:46
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Hmm. Something just popped into my mind, reading this thread. In our tracks, we've sometimes been using sounds resembling large explosions, aiming for the effect of the exploding sound "ramming" over every other sound for a while. We've achieved this by pumping up the volume in the individual channel of the explosion as high as possible, and then making all (both the explosion and the sounds that are getting rammed over) of the sounds go through a master channel limiter with no threshold set (so that it won't boost anything but will brickwall the ceiling so that the sounds won't clip but will just turn into a mess for a while).
Just now, I cannot think of any other useful way to achieve this particular style of one sound "fucking other sounds up". If I lower the volume of the explosion, it doesn't squash the other sounds as much. So is there any other way, or might there perhaps be some kind of a hole in my logic here? It doesn't sound logical to have anything that's going to be sent to mastering with even parts that are touching the 0,0db point, for sure. Of course one could use some compression in that specific part of the song, but is that clever either?
(I'm not sure if my explanation was good enough on describing what we're trying to do. I can clarify if there's a need |
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