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stop calling psy dark
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 03:37
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On 2007-01-23 02:37, splinter wrote:
guys psytrance is such a weird kind of music that people have trouble classifying it....it goes by mood wich means its hard for some people to call something dark that other people call dark...
so we're going to keep calling whatever we feel sounds dark..and were all going to get mixed up...maybe someones got a solutions ?
maybe someone here is einstein
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My attempt:
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/98935/forum/1
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Alex - Aural Invasion
Aural Invasion
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
514
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 03:50
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i call darkpsy for either darkpsy or drug music 
 myspace.com/auralinvasion
reverbnation.com/auralinvasion
www.aural-invasion.com |
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splinter
Splinter / Kode Six
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
578
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 04:24
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Quote:
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On 2007-01-23 03:37, Psycosmo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-01-23 02:37, splinter wrote:
guys psytrance is such a weird kind of music that people have trouble classifying it....it goes by mood wich means its hard for some people to call something dark that other people call dark...
so we're going to keep calling whatever we feel sounds dark..and were all going to get mixed up...maybe someones got a solutions ?
maybe someone here is einstein
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My attempt:
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/98935/forum/1
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heh yeah first time i saw that i didint bother to read it cuz it looked weird...but reading it now..makes sense...
but yeah...wha r you gonna do about it 
i could start by telling my definition of dark....but nawwwwwwwwww 
anyways there's no use fighting about it seriously...we will and always will have diff opinions about what style of psy one track is...its just how psytrance is...
fudge it yo SPLINTER |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 10:47
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I love reading Ocelots posts! He has a passion for psy comparable to a proud gardener! I also wish people would be more careful when treading on his lawn
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psycho-italiano
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
191
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 11:08
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On 2007-01-22 19:50, suomi guy wrote:
Absolutly right, dark is full on only without melodies and with shitty sound. Ppl calling it dark so the music genre won't have the stereotype of the name "full on". Dark is full on, it should be called Dark Full On, and the last thing it should be called is "Psychedelic", cause there is nothing psychedelic in a bunch of noises and scratch with horrible sound. Full on is better, atleast it has melodies.
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Well, as you say:
Yahel = Penta 
coz both has melodies... 
& what if the melodies are removed from Yahel's tracks....will they become dark?
comm'on....grow up...
btw, (not related to post): if we talk about "bunch of noises and scratch with horrible sound" then your Suomi/finland bullshit tunes (i don't call it music) has those elements... no music at all in this kind of "bad sound".
-i dont say it doesn't work on party "any sound can take u to a trip..." so it doesn't make it good kind of party tunes (not music)...
- yes i agree with u about 1 thing: the quality of full on "at most" is better coz the production is better. (not related to melodies).
& there is some high quality non-melodiec - non full on trance: Kindzadza 4 example...
anyway -
please don't take anything personally guys.
peace
Break The Matrix! |
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ॐtangotaurianॐ
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
391
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 11:30
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heh yeah first time i saw that i didint bother to read it cuz it looked weird...but reading it now..makes sense...
but yeah...wha r you gonna do about it
i could start by telling my definition of dark....but nawwwwwwwwww
anyways there's no use fighting about it seriously...we will and always will have diff opinions about what style of psy one track is...its just how psytrance is...
fudge it yo
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rite said mate 
Banao banao banao banao...Right now!!! |
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suomi guy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
347
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 13:18
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On 2007-01-23 11:08, psycho-italiano wrote:
btw, (not related to post): if we talk about "bunch of noises and scratch with horrible sound" then your Suomi/finland bullshit tunes (i don't call it music) has those elements... no music at all in this kind of "bad sound".
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lol, every suomi has melodies, the bassline isn't repeting itself the same crappy way as dark do, and suomi can be called psychedelic, unlike dark which can only be called crap as DETOX already said. The only thing you're right about suomi is the shitty sound, though there are artists like Haltya, Eraser vs. Yojalka which have great sound, but sound is less issue if the music has creativity, like suomi has, unlike dark full on, which got no creativity and no good sound.
"My single one to cross the ways that have heart, any way that has heart. That way I cross, and the only test that is worth is to cross all its length. And that way I cross watching, watching, out of breath"
Don Juan |
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v.v2
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
83
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 13:33
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why do things the 'tail wag dog' way anyway?
if a collective mind wants to call it dark, then instead of asking them to stop, why not work at the perceived meaning of the term? Its much easier, I have come to realise.
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 14:13
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On 2007-01-22 13:51, doughcherry wrote:
plea denied
theres no right and wrong issue
some people call it dark some not
if u have objections u dont use the term
but dont tell or "plead" others to stop
just so that it sounds right to you
wheres ur psychedelic spirit man??? there are no stops, therer are no rules....dont like it dont do it....dont impose it
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the way i see it - a blatant power grab has been made.
true psy trance of many colors has been marginalized under a bullshit blanket moniker aka DARK while commercial pop music gets away with calling itself psychedelic trance.
i object.
my general feeling about categories and genres being unfair as applied to entire artists is one point and that is NOT the point of this thread-
the point of this thread is how a LIE has been foisted upon this scene and we/you/I all bought it. well its bullshit.
i object to the wholesale dismissal of psychedelic trance music as "dark" and the use of the term psychedelic trance for pop music. if you think its not important then why not just let me have my point. its very very very very very important to me
just look at Wikipedia and the entry for Dark Psytrance to see what a wholesale dismissal im talking about- half the artists of the scene are mentioned in that article!!!
i dont believe this is a collective MIND at work but rather the deliberate efforts of a few people to START the term and the willing participation of YOU all in furthering it.
if my request is futile then so be it.
dont waste your breath trying to stop me from stopping it
i press on!!!
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 14:28
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LoveLikeRain -
so let me get this straight.
if i want to call engelbert humperdinck psychedelic trance then thats my right?
ok. then what if i get a bunch of newbie trancers to follow my logic and we all adopt this as psychedelic trance? shall the actual psy trance music be forced to call itself a new name? perhaps a new name that the engelbert humperdinck fans came up with?
like maybe crap-trance. oh yeah. thats great.
so now when i look on wikipedia and find that some Engelbert fans have defined what is crap-trance and made me one of the main artists, then i should NOT object, i should simply just shut up and make music and not care is that what you are saying???
i object.
i object to you using the word "IT" to refer to a diverse range of music as IF it were something that could be summed up with a singular title- "IT" aka dark.
dont you realize that you cannot categorically refer to a category that we dont agree upon the existence of!
thank you. i REST MY CASE
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On 2007-01-22 18:57, LoveLikeRain wrote:
At once calling for an end to the label "dark" for the music you produce and enjoy and then thrusting your own judgmental labels on full-on calling it "kiddie-rave-cheese-anthem "full-on" and "stooping" sounds very hypocritical to me. Perhaps it is best took at oneself prior to attacking others.
People call it dark for a reason and that may be because largly it lack melody. Melody brings light to music (for most people as nothing is absolute) and without light what do you have?
Dark
Thats all
Its not a refelection of the soul or the person making it. Or how it makes you feel when dancing to it.
You can no more control what the people call yours or anyone’s music then you can stay dry by running home in the rain. It’s not possible. People react the way they react.
Who has the right anyone to define psychedelic for anyone else?
Psychedelic is as personal a concept as love and attraction. What is psychedelic to you may sound like machine noise gabber to me. What may be psychedelic to me may sound like a broken Speak and Spell raping R2D2 over a house beat.
In the end who is right?
Who is wrong.
No one is wrong I say.
Don’t worry about what others are calling your music. Just make music and have fun!
Dance your dreams
The rest is just drama
Namaste
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 15:27
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On 2007-01-22 10:37, DETOX wrote:
Everybody is calling it crap trance anyway so you shouldnt worry about it mate.
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huh , you dont even heard 1 tune he talk about peobably
your additue sux man , for long time.
anywayz , it seems if i call something "dark" , you call it crap immidiatly without even listening might be your beloved wizzy noize behind (yeah part of the prob is peaple calling anything with diffrent names) but you more about stupid sub-genres stupid names then actual music.. sorry you had bad expirience with 2-3 kids sending you shit music , but thats no reason to be .. ehm.. so negative
once it was all psytrance , today its fartrance (additue , and some sounds as well)
boom
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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dE.Tonatik
Detonatik
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
2374
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 15:29
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On 2007-01-23 14:13, ocelot wrote:
true psy trance of many colors has been marginalized under a bullshit blanket moniker aka DARK while commercial pop music gets away with calling itself psychedelic trance.
the point of this thread is how a LIE has been foisted upon this scene and we/you/I all bought it. well its bullshit.
i object to the wholesale dismissal of psychedelic trance music as "dark" and the use of the term psychedelic trance for pop music.
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very good point here
there is lots n lots of quality music which is very psychedelic n more psychedelic then this so called dark thing ..its about the quality as well i feel how its made ...all music can be dark if a listener wants it to be and all music can be psychedelic if the listener knows his music ...
my half cent
boommm
deton@tik |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 17:42
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A SIMPLE DEMONSTRATION THAT CHEESY RAVE MUSIC IS NOT PSYCHEDELIC TRANCE
whereas PRECEDENT is the deciding factor- as in Law...
Exhibit A:
The Infinity Project- "Feeling Kinda Weird" (1993?)
Exhibit B:
KoxBox - "StratosFear" (1995?)
Exhibit C:
Astral Projection - "People Can Fly" (1993?)
feel free to correct me if my dates are wrong- im guessing off the top of my head based on memory.
ok- so here is my argument in a nutshell
All 3 of these tracks helped define what IS psychedelic trance. the name was invented for music like this. One could say that precedent gives music like this the indisputable right to the name "psychedelic trance"
no amount of marketing bullshit can take that away.
Its probably prove-able in a court of law in most places...
Exhibit A and B both contain lots of "weird noises" etc... and feature more sound design than melodic development. there is an edgy feeling to both of them that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck. there is a feeling of paranormal phenomenon occurring. there is a sense of disorientation.
This music is psychedelic and intends to be. there is no sense of being dumbed down for mass appeal...
Exhibit C exemplifies what i would call the melodic side of Psychedelic Trance- perhaps for the morning?
The melodies are complex, deep, and rousing to the soul. (I speak of the original not the remix)
There is ALSO this feeling of edginess- of a caged energy waiting to be unleashed.
The melodies are not 2 note rave anthems.
The melodies are NOT dumbed down for mass appeal.
There is a simplicity and beauty to this that comes from the total elegance with which AP pulled it off.
now- pick any of your favorite trance mega hits from the 2000's ...
listen to it:
do you hear that simple rave-like lead synth beating those same 2 or 3 notes to death?
do you hear ANY subtlety or depth of feeling?
do you hear ANY tension or edginess that might hint of supernatural activity?
no?
well thats ok. you can still call it trance. just dont call it psychedelic trance...
there is lots of trance in the world. trance this and trance that... its a very popular general genre of music... dont get me wrong- im not out to destroy mainstream trance-
I object to the theft of the word psychedelic trance for music that is not even trying to be psychedelic.
Infected Mushroom made some excellent psytrance in the day and are talented musicians for sure...ummm
the Gathering is (despite horrid samples of death and mayhem) a psychedelic trance album- while Converting Vegetarians is NOT. It maybe some kind of electro-trance but its not PSYCHEDELIC trance.
Astrix, as far as I know- is the king of full-on club anthems. He makes TRANCE music sure, but its not PSYCHEDELIC trance music as far as i've heard- correct me if you know otherwise...name one track of his that is...
I am disturbed by his use of samples like "control me" and "listen to my voice and follow me, dadadaddaaaa blah blha in extasy..." but thats a different topic- why drug addled people are vulnerable to shockingly obvious manipulation... hey maybe i should make a new track "buy my music its the best" and put that for the main break sample... yeah
but i digress...
anyway- this whole thing is to clear up the bullshit around the concept of "im ok, your ok, if i call my asshole psychedelic then it is"
dig?
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 18:40
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ok first off- sorry for the hostile tone in the message before.
i finally have formulated what i really really want to say.
here it is:)
"i object"
to the use of the word "dark" for everything thats not FULL ON or Progressive or Minimal or whatever...
i fully understand that there are tracks that are genuinely trying to be DARK and have disturbing samples and lots of harsh noises. i understand that peoples sense of darkness varies according to personality and the culture they live in etc...
i do not have a problem with people calling dark music dark. dont mis-understand me...
so
stop calling the default container category for everything thats not rave or house
"dark"
there might be some psychedelic trance in there
there might be some other weird thing too but you never know...
anyway- i like any genre of music if done nicely - no problem...
but psychedelic trance is psychedelic trance-
no compromise music for flying on trips.
its not a shake your booty kind of thing
its full powered flight- engagement of the mind body and spirit like nothing else before or since.
i mean FUCK - thats why i got INTO this stuff in the first place so heavily...dancing forever at least once a week all night non stop.
so excuse me if i reserve the word psychedelic trance for the stuff that is at least TRYING to make me fly-
while other stuff is just trance- lots of trance. sure...
and its really a track by track basis...
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LoveLikeRain
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
75
Posted : Jan 23, 2007 20:01
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
LoveLikeRain -
so let me get this straight.
if i want to call engelbert humperdinck psychedelic trance then thats my right? |
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No,You are creating a a logical fallacy by misrepresenting my position. Reread what I posted. If you think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic then so be it. Psychedelic is defined as
"Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis"
That my friend is highly interpretable. Meaning this can be many things to many people.
Trance on the other hand is defined by its 4/4 beat. Its not interpretable. Its defined by its beat. So while you can think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic and be correct in your own mind, to say he is trance would be incorrect.
Therefor when you say Full-On or progressive is not psychedcelic what you are really saying is they are not psychedelic to YOU. No one own the idea of psychedelic. Some of our parents thought The Moody Blues where psychedelic. For me they are not, but who am I to say to them "no you are wrong this music is not psychedelic".
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
ok. then what if i get a bunch of newbie trancers to follow my logic and we all adopt this as psychedelic trance? shall the actual psy trance music be forced to call itself a new name? perhaps a new name that the engelbert humperdinck fans came up with?
like maybe crap-trance. oh yeah. thats great.
so now when i look on wikipedia and find that some Engelbert fans have defined what is crap-trance and made me one of the main artists, then i should NOT object, i should simply just shut up and make music and not care is that what you are saying???
i object.
i object to you using the word "IT" to refer to a diverse range of music as IF it were something that could be summed up with a singular title- "IT" aka dark.
dont you realize that you cannot categorically refer to a category that we dont agree upon the existence of!
thank you. i REST MY CASE
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You have rested your case on a strawman argument. Your argument could be successful as it may succeed in persuading some people but it is in fact misleading, because my actual argument has not been refuted or even addressed at all.
The more I read your posts the more I see that you wish to have the term "Psychedelic Trance" reserved for your own personal definition of psychedelic. In this you can never succeed. As I have pointed out “Psychedelic” means different things to different people so people can and will call it whatever they like.
Like I said
Don’t worry about what others are calling the music. Just make music your heart tells you to and have fun!
In the end thats what really counts right? The rest is just attempts of the ego to control.
Lets go of that
Dance your dreams
Namaste
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