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stop calling psy dark
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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279
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5475
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 05:10
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I agree Yidam, it's a delicate subject and its difficult to label music, because the artist's productions are not hermetic, each track or album is different.
What I was trying to say is that melodic stuff like Vibe Tribe is not night music, and non melodic energetic stuff (like some old absolum tunes) is better diggested is played at night.
From my interivew with Penta:
fullonline: Do you prefer to play at parties at any specific time?
Penta: I enjoy playing dawn sets, somewhere from 5-8 in the morning, depending on the region. For me this is the most psychedelic time. I also enjoy playing at night, around 3, when it is dark and scary.
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 06:03
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On 2007-01-23 22:07, Jester Records wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but this is the way i see things ...
Psytrance : music with melodies, twisted in a psychadelik way.
Full-on: Music with melodies twisted in a psy way, but with harder basslines and more layers, making the melodies a little harder to digest.
Dark : Music without melodies, getting closer towards technoish structures, with lots of sounds, twisted in a psy way with heavy, redundant basslines.
Then you have crossbreeds that have both those twisted sounds but not too much melodies, which i would call still maybe full-on.
Then also you get dark stuff with some short melodies only in the breakdowns, which i would call, umm, full-on.
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the real *problem* is that anyone got his own idea about this. i think full on must have guitars , i think techno always is XXX-BPM , i think that i think is not official anyhow , to no one.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
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2095
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 06:46
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On 2007-01-23 20:01, LoveLikeRain wrote:
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
LoveLikeRain -
so let me get this straight.
if i want to call engelbert humperdinck psychedelic trance then thats my right? |
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No,You are creating a a logical fallacy by misrepresenting my position. Reread what I posted. If you think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic then so be it. Psychedelic is defined as
"Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis"
That my friend is highly interpretable. Meaning this can be many things to many people.
Trance on the other hand is defined by its 4/4 beat. Its not interpretable. Its defined by its beat. So while you can think engelbert humperdinck is psychedelic and be correct in your own mind, to say he is trance would be incorrect.
Therefor when you say Full-On or progressive is not psychedcelic what you are really saying is they are not psychedelic to YOU. No one own the idea of psychedelic. Some of our parents thought The Moody Blues where psychedelic. For me they are not, but who am I to say to them "no you are wrong this music is not psychedelic".
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On 2007-01-23 14:28, ocelot wrote:
ok. then what if i get a bunch of newbie trancers to follow my logic and we all adopt this as psychedelic trance? shall the actual psy trance music be forced to call itself a new name? perhaps a new name that the engelbert humperdinck fans came up with?
like maybe crap-trance. oh yeah. thats great.
so now when i look on wikipedia and find that some Engelbert fans have defined what is crap-trance and made me one of the main artists, then i should NOT object, i should simply just shut up and make music and not care is that what you are saying???
i object.
i object to you using the word "IT" to refer to a diverse range of music as IF it were something that could be summed up with a singular title- "IT" aka dark.
dont you realize that you cannot categorically refer to a category that we dont agree upon the existence of!
thank you. i REST MY CASE
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You have rested your case on a strawman argument. Your argument could be successful as it may succeed in persuading some people but it is in fact misleading, because my actual argument has not been refuted or even addressed at all.
The more I read your posts the more I see that you wish to have the term "Psychedelic Trance" reserved for your own personal definition of psychedelic. In this you can never succeed. As I have pointed out “Psychedelic” means different things to different people so people can and will call it whatever they like.
Like I said
Don’t worry about what others are calling the music. Just make music your heart tells you to and have fun!
In the end thats what really counts right? The rest is just attempts of the ego to control.
Lets go of that
Dance your dreams
Namaste
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nicely said
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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2095
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 06:47
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On 2007-01-24 02:55, mudpeople wrote:
Here's my few cents:
NONE OF YOU GETS TO TELL ME MY PERCEPTIONS. If I think its psychedelic because it has scratchy noises, thats UP TO ME.
If you try and tell me what I should and shouldnt like, you need to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I personally find a lot of psytrance of ALL styles psychedelic. Its up to each of us to decide what trips us out the most. If, to you, thats fluffy synths, or organic sitar and tabla, or scratchy industrial noises, WHAT DOES THAT MATTER TO ANYONE BUT YOU. Side note: Techno has tripped me out far better than any psytrance.
Arrogance and elitism, name-calling and pigeonholing of styles, IS WHATS WRONG WITH TRANCE TODAY. Commercialism is bad but look at any music, it seems to be inevitable. At first, the few intimate gatherings, then the idiots take notice, and want more. The idiots have money too. Thats all that matters, to a business. Then, inevitably, you have Skazis and Eskimos playing what the idiots want to hear. Its not the fault of Skazi or Eskimo, that the idiots want to shower them with money.
If you like it soft with melodies, at around 132bpm, cool, me too! if you like it hard, abrasive, scratchy, amelodic, around 152bpm, ME TOO! Imagine this: its possible to like MORE THAN ONE STYLE OF PSYTRANCE.
"Im too 'progressive' to like 'dark'" is NOT A GOOD REASON to not like "dark" music. Thats an excuse to be lazy. An excuse to feel superior.
If you're looking to trance to elevate your self esteem you really ought to look elsewhere. If you cant find your own happiness, right here and now, where do you expect to find it?
Maybe you ought to quit, take a break, come back in a few months or years and see how much better it is. Maybe you just need to grow up a bit, and expand your horizons, and realize that you and ONLY YOU get to decide what you like.
If its not your decision, YOU ARE A POSER, look to the motives you have in liking trance. Do you like the music? What do you like? Looking cool in front of friends? Guess what. NO ONE ELSE CARES how cool you are. This is not me being a dick. This is the truth of Reality. The only one who cares, the only one who should care about what you do, is you.
What came first, the whiners, or what they whine about?
thank you.
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i feel the same way
psychedelic trance is in the ear of the beholder.....
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
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mk47
Inactive User
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118
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4444
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 08:00
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agree 100% with ocelots 1st post .. its silly to label all non melodic music thats played at night on psy parties as dark . dark for me is fear inducing , negative , opposite of good vibe .. if u know what i mean .. scary , creepy , ghostly , spooky etc etc .. u get my drift i hope . i think xenomorph`s 1st 2 albums are a perfect example of it tho lately i heard some tracks of him wich wernt the usual goth , horrorcore kinda of sound he had earlier .
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smorphelia8
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
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524
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 09:54
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aaron is getting angry....watch out...
whats up man....this is elia...remember? italian dude,gyuri s friend...cosmic wedding?
I agree all the way with what you had to share. dark is over-used....maybe just xeno and a couple of other artists should be defined as dark psy artists....
quando vieni a Budapest?
solo cylum
elia |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
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2899
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 12:44
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On 2007-01-23 23:27, Sunai wrote:
I agree whith Ocelot,btw:Call it what u want.PEACE
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i call it psytrance with attitude =)
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gaspard
Yab Yum
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
641
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 12:56
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On:27, rich wrote:
1) 'dark psy' artists need to stop labeling their music 'dark psy'.
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most of the artists that people call "dark" most definitely dont label themselves "dark", this is a phrase coined in forums by people who just wants a "suitable" word to use to describe everything that doesnt fit in to their musical taste. admitedly there is actual dark music out there, with horror movie samples and people screaming but this is not representative of most of the night time psychedelic trance genre. and as far as i m concerned, this has nothing to do with bpm.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
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875
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 17:02
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On 2007-01-23 22:49, Acidhive wrote:
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On 2007-01-23 20:53, soulfood wrote:
Can we please start saying sounds instead of noises? It just has a better ring to it. Now I didn't want to be "that guy", but isnt noise generally an unpleasant and abrasive sound? Now I havent even heard any extreme night sounds that have these unpleasant frequencies, as the artists spend much time even making the most unsettling of sounds, friendly to the ear.
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Ahum. Never heard Osom's "Osmotrix" have you?
If you did you'd know there's some pretty unpleasant high sinus tones in that one. If you can't hear that anymore then your hearing is already compromised.
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I love how that sound seems to come from behind you and it's far from the sound of a microphone feeding back or something. Much more controlled. Actually those high notes in that remind me of the sound a train makes when it's pulling into the station which is quite soothing to me.
I usually think of harsh ear ripping tones as being much lower down towards the mid range, somehow I dont think people are going to be putting huge speaker popping tones in there.
Thanks for the concern about my ears though, but I think they got a good few years left in them.
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
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1098
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 20:32
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too much stuff on this post to wade thru.....
my opinons in a nut shell..
Full on is for dance floors and lighter moods. aka Morning.Unfortunatley it is very formulaic and there are far too many copy and paste acts out there mimicking on another.
Dark, night, what ever blah blah, generally isnt meant for getting your groove on. Its more introspective. More heady shit to get into your mind...
hence the less formulaic approach, counts that dont make sense etc.... Its a deeper music, but much more difficult to dance to unless you want to just sway on the dance floor in a acid stooper. Not to say that all music in this catagory fits like that. There is much that doesnt, but the words funk and groove i dont think really apply to this style.
....and i myself see a clear genre division between full on and night music, but it all falls under the psy trance genere banner as there are some common production ideas. (i.e the psytrance kickdrum)
Disco house and deep tribal house are 2 very different animals, but they still are house
Gabber and HHC are to very different beasts, but are still part of the hardcore genre.
Psytrance is no different , despite what so many people want to believe.
and just because someone with no musical training, concept of counts or musical theory can make a 155 bpm bassline of mud and make a bunch of random noises with screams, chains or cows mooing doesnt make anything psychedelic. Maybe abstract, or avant-garde but that in of itself doesnt make it psychedelic.
and lastly, stuff with melodies does not discount it from being psychedelic. For me background sounds and percussion generally create the most psychedelic elements in a track. The synths and samples usually have very little to do with it.
Logical Light Music - SF
Straylight Productions -SF
Sound/Mind - Denver
Xcience - Midwest
mixes for dl at :
http://www.thehothouse.net/straylight/paradigm/index.htm
"He who ha-ha's last, ha-ha's best" |
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Jester Records
Jester Records
Started Topics :
24
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254
Posted : Jan 24, 2007 21:38
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Disco house and deep tribal house are 2 very different animals, but they still are house
Gabber and HHC are to very different beasts, but are still part of the hardcore genre.
Psytrance is no different , despite what so many people want to believe.
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You are right my man..
the only thing is, the word "psytrance" is a style that fall's under "Psychadelic Music", as apose to having everything fall under "psytrance" .. Psytrance is a subgenre, such as HHC is to Hardcore, the same way Gabber is also to hardcore.
The confusion here is not that dark music is not psychadelic, its more that people are putting this dark style under the psytrance label, when it should more be under the psychadelic style..
and people on this forum make me laugh when they write stuff like :
"most of the artists that people call "dark" most definitely dont label themselves "dark", this is a phrase coined in forums by people who just wants a "suitable" word to use to describe everything that doesnt fit in to their musical taste. admitedly there is actual dark music out there, with horror movie samples and people screaming but this is not representative of most of the night time psychedelic trance genre. and as far as i m concerned, this has nothing to do with bpm. "
Its as if Dark was automatically labeled as crap music (even if it might be). I think that is more of the problem, rather than acctually calling Dark music DARK PSY!!! no?
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jan 25, 2007 01:25
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ahh you dont want to understand ...
i call all this style 150 bpm killerz "puki"
so what ?
and same apply to all genres , cause perfect stranger is not progressive , penta is not dark , suomi never existed from the first place , and defintly i cant find anything psychadelic in 50% of psy-trance realeses today.
well.. im out of here , if you wanna keep argue about how evryone see this , enjoy
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 25, 2007 01:50
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Very little of this makes any sense to me.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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42
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787
Posted : Jan 25, 2007 02:03
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I thought that in music speak "dark" simply meant heavy on the low-frequency sounds.. It certainly seems to mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Interesting.
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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875
Posted : Jan 25, 2007 09:34
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I can't believe people make such a fuss out of 3-5 bpm difference! Are you people metronomes or something? |
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