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Spiritual or not?
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Watter
IsraTrance Junior Member
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184
Posted : Dec 1, 2004 16:04
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Well, a very interesting topic indeed. Congrats to Ganja.
My thoughts:
I, like some here am not a "spiritual" person in the comon sence of the word. I belive in energy - I belive that everything IS energy and beeing music a form of altering energy (sound waves are energy)I belive it can change you....
It sure changed me and made me re think the way I see world.
MY ideia of spiritual is something that can make you reach a high state of understanding....someone said that it took Sidahrta a long time to become Buda and asked how can we with just music and some psycotropic substance can achive it so quickly.... well we can't.... the truth is that enlitment through music is a process and it takes time. another person said that can't see spiritualism in people taking drugs at parties..... well lets not forget that this scene was created by people who used to use some kind of psycoactive substacess, so lets not be hipocrits..... I belive that used, not abused, psycotropics can help you achive enlightment for they oppen yourself to things wich you would've blocked.....
Well I hope its not to confusing...
Cheers
  "open your mind....you might just see that there isn't anything to be seen" |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 1, 2004 16:18
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Watter i agree with you so much in many ways, this music was created with some kind of drugs though you have to see which kind! This music was mainly acid music and acid enhances good parts of your soul it enhances your senses and makes you go somewhere else, which nobody can explain exactly were but at the same time we have been there! So forth made with these substances it is not good to think that these substances are wrong, they have there ups and downs but Acid/LSD is not a substance like Cocaine which enhances the ego it enhances the good senses. For example on acid you can look at someone and see him the way he really is just from his eyes! It enhances perception! Perception = intelligence = enlightenment= knowing the god inside each and every one of us and living the way God wanted us = to be one with the nature, happy, loving and caring, sharing love and unity and peace within and without! The music maybe the first step towards enlightenment but I never said that enlightenment is achieved through music.
Bom
ganja
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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Watter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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184
Posted : Dec 1, 2004 16:48
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Ganja, nice words....
I also belive that music is the first step, for enlighment comes form within, of course it can be achieve "faster" and in a better way if you count on some one who is a step ahead of you to guide you or even help you not stray....
Psy Trance, Classical music, pure Jazz (instrumental) in my onpinion have a lot in comomn and all can lead to a higher state of consciesness...
"open your mind....you might just see that there isn't anything to be seen" |
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Braincase
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 06:37
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Whoah, thx for the warm words there. I never thought that my little reply would get such a strong response. Respect!
Altho there are some things i need to set straight here. Like how i ended up beeing listed as a spritual dude in ganjagils list. 
Maybe you misunderstood something i said, or perhaps it was just an good ´ol honest mistake.
Ok then, lets move on.
Ive seen alot of interesting views of what people think is "the way" to be intouch with ones feelings. I agree on some of them, and disagree on some others.
I think that spirituality or self awareness or whatever you want to call it can be reached in many ways and as full_on stated before, the means of achieving this state of mind is in no way locked to a single style of music, or a lifestyle or even religion. I dont believe that by simply listening to one kind of music and dropping acid will get u very far in terms of spirituality. Maybe the person in question feels to be in touch with god and himself while stoned, but really, do you feel that you have the same clarity when your in your normal state of mind?
Altho i do think that drugs can in a way help us understand ourselves better, to some extent (as weed did for me ). But i would personally never EVER recommend anyone to use drugs. One thing that works for one person might be plain suicide for someone else.
And so for that dude who claimed that if you havent experienced drugs like acid or extacy, you havent experienced life.
Well sorry but i think thats complete bullshit.
As a matter of fact, my strongest emotional moment in my entire life didnt have anything to do with drugs or music.
Ill tell u what happened just to give an example.
This was a few years back when my grandfather had been killed in a freak car accident. A few days after the funeral in finland i was sitting out on the porch at their house. This was in midwinter and the temperature was somewhere around -30 celcius. It was one of the coldest nights that winter. So there i am, staring blindly into the snow while all these thoughts were running trough my head. Thinking of what just had happened and feeling pretty much unsatisfyed with the way things where going in my life. Suddenly this loud noice caught my attention. A loud crackling sound. Almost like small explosions. It took me a little while to figure out that it was the ice cracking up on a lake a few hundred meters away. I started to look around at the nature, thinking of how beautiful everything was and how i could have missed it before. At that very same time, the whole sky lit up in all these brilliant colors caused by a phenomena called aurora borealis, also known as northen lights. It was like the sky was on fire.
That moment was so intense i cant even try to explain how i felt. It was like the atmosphere it self was alive. I was so stunned by the beauty of that place that i almost cryed. If i would have, i propably would have wept snowflakes.
That night i couldnt sleep at all, something had happened, something had changed inside me and i was no longer sad or depressed, but filled with a feeling that, no matter what, everything is gonna be all right.
A truly psychedelic evening in deed.
My opinion is, that its the sum of all our actions, thoughts, feelings and experiences trough our entire lives all together, that progressively expands our consiusness, knowledge and state of mind.
So, one could ask, have i reached my "personal nirvana" or that universal state of mind that we all seem to be chasing?
Well, i dont know. And HOW do u know when that happens?
Perhaps all of these mysteries will be revealed to me some day. But in the meantime,
the only thing that i do know for certain, is who i am and what i stand for.
Piece!
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
--Albert |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 11:20
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Wow Braincase man, really wow I mean the aurora borealis is one of my dreams also I have to see this man! I can understand your experience and of course something changed in your life it’s so natural man! The same thing happened to India when I went to the Himalayan mountains and used to live there for a couple of months! We went trekking by ourselves me and 2 friends we went so high up the mountain about 3,800 metres above sea level !! When I was up there clouds forming around me and the other mountains in my view I saw snow for the first time in my life! It was wonderful (please note I come from one of the smallest place on earth – Malta) I started screaming just for the fun of it cause you are completely free from everything up there in that nature! Also me after India changed my life became clear nothing was blurred anymore!
Coming back to the subject of why the music is spiritual well for me there are many ways and experiences, which I call spiritual and India is one of them! Trance is one that for me is like meditation inside this music (and no other kind of music for me) I find a pure link with the nature and god himself! I mean when you live in a city how can you get inner peace it’s very difficult! But by closing your eyes and listening to feelings transmitted into sounds (Trance) you can have inner peace and a pure feeling! I still cannot understand what you mean by other genres of music cause most of them are Ego related and this has nothing to do with what I am saying, even much of the trance today is Ego related but I am talking about the good stuff which is hard to find!
I hope you can understand what I mean but if not it does not really matter maybe one day you will experience this and you will understand me fully J Thanks for being so open this shows what a wonderful person you really are! As for nivana well you will know when you get there 
P.s. sorry for putting you in the list it was a mistake I thought wrongly
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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udit
Started Topics :
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130
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 12:12
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Interesting topic..
but i have a few things im not sure about...
-what is spiritual?
everyone has a different definition...
-What is not spiritual?
The minute you can psy is spiritual and other is not.. arent u creating more divides in the world? I mean everythign is one isnt it? and that one
includes ego includes commercialism, includes what u call non spiritual music.. incudes everything...
everythign is one and being closed to only psy and non commercial i think is unbalanced..
Commercial music = money = material = never happy always want more)
vs
non commercial music = antimoney = anti material(or spiritual as some people call it) = never happy
if everythgin was spiritual then why are we here in a physical world?
psytrance and drugs def help you on your way but it is not an end in itself.....it is like a step.. sometimes you have to let go of the vehicle itself and move on... most spiritual people meditete just like people earn money to be happy...
but some people then forget what their original aim was and only mneditate all day.. or forget why they earn money and only get stuck in earning money...
i dunno if im clear i hope i am...
some of the most spiritual people i have met in this world dont even know anythign abotu spitiruality...
Love and light
PS: maybe we can have a thread where people share their most intense moments 
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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858
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 13:44
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@ udit
What is Spiritual…
Spiritual is everything related to your soul, being spiritual means that you let go all that appertains to the body and live life doing what your soul wish to do. Your soul on the other hand belongs to god so everything it does is equal to complete natural behaviour…Natural is like a cycle when you are in it you are happy to be part of that cycle and part of the universe within and without if you are not natural then you become materialistic, ego driven and money addict = never happy! Hope I am clear I say this from my personal experience not that I read it from some book
Now God is everything that is quite right but everything related to the soul is god all other things are created by the human ego / greed etc call it what you want. This ego is of course only appertaining to the outside world because it cannot be part of the soul (God’s world) and it makes sense can you imagine what money would be in God’s world? Absolutely not valuable anymore! We need money to live in this life because we created it so! We had another option to live like the nature does but we did not choose so but when all is one then we do not need any of these things anymore cause we are one with the goodness himself! The Universe! When you say we are one for me now in this world it’s obvious we are not one with the universe yet but it is our mission to be so!
Hope I am clear and maybe help you but of course this is just my experience nothing else but I feel it’s a good view point on life! As is same with music when music is made from the deepest hearth and soul and it is made with dedication and love well you can feel the difference from that created only to make money! Big big big difference and that is why it is spiritual cause it is made from the within not the without!
Bom Ganja
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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Braincase
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 14:25
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I do understand what u mean ganjagil (or atleast i think i do). Your thinking: How can music that has no real effort or soul behind it be spiritual. Well, it can be spiritual whether you believe it or not, (altho thats propably very uncommon for the most commercial and mainstream styles of music). But its all in the way the music itself affects you and your feelings, and how one as a person deals with those feelings (and as in your case ganjagil, psytrance is your way of channeling these feelings into a state of mind that makes sense for you, please do correct me if im wrong )
Ok i dont mean that by going to your local record store and bying Hitz 4 Kidz vol.273 will lead to personal salvation, but, in a way, i think we should be grateful for commercial music. YES you heard me. Look at it like this. If we didnt have all this commercialism, materialism and all that superficial crap that we really hate, we wouldnt have anything to rebel against and this superb community of free thinkers might not even exist at all.
And as far as goes for other styles of music, there are so many subcultures, just like our own psytrance culture and lifestyle, that can really be very powerful and spiritual. Whether it may be hiphop, jazz, rock or something completely different, there will always be that little group of hardcore people taking the music to the next level, a level where nothing else but the music, and the purity of it really matters. Thus bringing out the true soul and way of life for that kind of music. The biggest problem with these subcultures is that they are often invisible for the everyday joe´s wandering on the streets, and when those same people get in touch with these cultures, they meet them with superstition, just because they dont understand the mentality and way of life of those who truly believe and live by the "codes" of each subculture.
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
--Albert |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 15:13
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I have no doubt that before early in the 60’s and 70’s the culture was same as ours and the people went to party for the love of each other and the love to the music! I agree with you in many ways my friend but somehow I still persist that commercial and other genre’s of music made for the money cannot be spiritual in anyway no way! Because you are telling me that a person who is making music for the money is transmitting the same effect to the people as is one who is dedicating his life and love to make it? Answer is no in my opinion it can never transmit half of the feelings! Now ok commercial can transmit a happy whipsy daisy vibe to people who are yet far away from there spirit! Who are maybe dominated by their ego and look for music, which makes them feel like they are the most beautiful people in the world but this is not what I am talking about! I am talking about advanced listeners and lovers of music, why do advanced listeners end up to listen to trance? Because it is made out of pure love and soul therefore it is spiritual! I used to listen to so many many styles and yes at home I listen to dub,reggae, ambient, 70’s rock and many other styles but really what hits my hearth is trance nowadays. Man I would love to see you on the dancefloor when it is a spiritual party and all the people become one! Then you would have an idea of what I am talking about and I would look at you and give you all the energy I have inside because then inside and outside are one and we are there together! Hope this makes it more clear…
Bom
Ganja
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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Braincase
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Posted : Dec 2, 2004 17:38
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What is it that makes u think that i can not feel the same things that u feel on the dancefloor, that i cant feel connected to the people im partying with and share the energy and state of euforia that we create together.
Is it that i dont fully share your vision of spirituality, or that i have a point of view that does not match yours? The main reason i go to parties like these are to be among people like myself, knowing that this is a place where i can truly be who i am. Like a safe haven from the rest of the shitty world where i can really relate to, and feel, and share all those emotions with other people, emotions that makes me who i am.
Also im alittle confused of what you mean with "a spiritual party".
What i tried to explain to you, when i said that even commercial music can have a spiritual effect on people, is that the artists original intent for making the music in the first place really doesnt matter at all because every individual will interpret the music in their own special way, and thus, they can feel things the artist himself never thought of.On the other hand i do not think that those same people would ever feel such a strong connection to the music, as you put it, an advanced listener because these people have already gone way further in terms of becoming one with themselves and already know what they want to achieve through the music they listen to.
I also feel a strong connection to psytrance, but there are other styles of music out there which are as deep and profound as trance music.
I would recommend u listening to:
Gangstarr - Moment of truth
for an example. That track had a huge impact on me when i was younger.
Alot of his lyrics are about the same things we are trying to achieve through trance music. To understand who we are and where we are headed in life, and how to cope with all the hardships that we may face on the way.
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
--Albert |
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deejayridoo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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309
Posted : Dec 2, 2004 23:26
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braincase, very interesting points. you really added to this very interesting discussion.
i try to sum up what you added:
spirituality is within every individual.
the psychedelic/ spiritual mystical realm is an extremely individual one.
i agree.
human nature´s basic needs imply social contact though (being loved/ being accepted/ taken serious etc.)
also liked your try to speak of something non-psy (gangstarr) which gets very deep also.
but, as i already mentioned before, there´s one thing that separates psychedelic trance music from all the other deep-feeling musical genres - the fact that:
1. there are no lyrics
2. the music took the hypnotizing/ trance-inducing principle of shamanism/ tribal extasy (wether it´s indian/ arab/ south-american/ aborigine...)
3. but there´s high tech melted with this archaic formula (weird sounds/ extremely amplified bass/ electricity...)
and... yes... it´s a good feeling to be part of something that rebels against authorities.
of course - spice extends life.
diversity is this spice.
on the other hand, as a buddhist, i see things like that:
this sensual world can also have us being trapped and sticking to life, which brings further suffering with it, instead of letting go and being aware of the inconsistency of everything (also the ego/ me/ i/ self...)
i try to let go and reduce adherence/ attachment as much as i can! |
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Braincase
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Posted : Dec 3, 2004 01:43
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Finally someone who really understood what i was trying explain. Thank you for your insight deejayridoo.
I really appreaciate the views of all who posted their ideas and thoughts in this matter and im truly glad that i had this discussion with you people.
As a result of it all, i now feel more confident in my self then i have ever done before.
Respect to all of you!
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
--Albert |
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Dragongurl
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
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623
Posted : Dec 3, 2004 08:47
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This has given me lots of good reading guys, thanks hey!!
Three very spiritual ppl here as well as very open about their values and thoughts!
:: Life can be as bitter as dragon tears
But whether dragon tears are bitter or sweet
depends entirely on how each man perceives the taste :: |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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858
Posted : Dec 3, 2004 09:23
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Ah ok braincase, I understood what you mean and sorry about maybe sounding a little bit off in my last post I absolutely did not mean anything-wrong mate! This post has grown big and very, very interesting! Dragongurl is absolutely fab she understands very very well and explains in simple but great terms…Thanks for posting such great words everybody
Bom
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
100
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1698
Posted : Dec 3, 2004 09:36
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