| Author
|
shamanism in trance
|
lalala
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
89
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 14:55
|
Quote:
|
Also, many shamanistic rituals may be tainted with useless and even harmful practices coming out from erroneous beliefs. One extreme example is the Aztecs doing human sacrifice while on hallucinogens.
|
|
You are judging another culture with the values of your own. Perhaps in Aztec culture human sacrifice was not "tainted" to them perhaps our obsessive treasuring of our material bodies and avoidence of pain is "tainted"
Many people in Aztec and Mayan cultures actually volunteeres to be sacrificed and it was considered an honor.
Maybe hallucinogens just taught them their bodies and pain were mere illusions ?
Who knows its pure speculation and I am sure there were plenty of people who would have prefereed not to be sacrificed, all im saying is you cant really judge an ancient culture with modern cultural values , let alone one as poorly understood as the Aztecs. |
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 15:11
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 14:55, lalala wrote:
You are judging another culture with the values of your own. Perhaps in Aztec culture human sacrifice was not "tainted" to them perhaps our obsessive treasuring of our material bodies and avoidence of pain is "tainted"
Many people in Aztec and Mayan cultures actually volunteeres to be sacrificed and it was considered an honor.
Maybe hallucinogens just taught them their bodies and pain were mere illusions ?
Who knows its pure speculation and I am sure there were plenty of people who would have prefereed not to be sacrificed, all im saying is you cant really judge an ancient culture with modern cultural values , let alone one as poorly understood as the Aztecs.
|
|
Of course you can, sacrificing human beings, is plain wrong...anyway you look at it.
 Me>You |
|
|
|
Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 15:48
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 14:55, lalala wrote:
Quote:
|
Also, many shamanistic rituals may be tainted with useless and even harmful practices coming out from erroneous beliefs. One extreme example is the Aztecs doing human sacrifice while on hallucinogens.
|
|
You are judging another culture with the values of your own. Perhaps in Aztec culture human sacrifice was not "tainted" to them perhaps our obsessive treasuring of our material bodies and avoidence of pain is "tainted"
Many people in Aztec and Mayan cultures actually volunteeres to be sacrificed and it was considered an honor.
Maybe hallucinogens just taught them their bodies and pain were mere illusions ?
Who knows its pure speculation and I am sure there were plenty of people who would have prefereed not to be sacrificed, all im saying is you cant really judge an ancient culture with modern cultural values , let alone one as poorly understood as the Aztecs.
|
|
yes and the one who has to be sacrificed believed that after the sacrifice were able to visit god,so this was the ultimate spiritual value when you have to sacrifice your soul,then the person who sacrifices his self becames a sacred spirit from the other side of the spirit world able to give sacred mystical knowledge to other members of the tribe and guide them on their sacred ritual ceremonies,as they play the drum beat and ride the sound as a vehicle for a journey to mystical paths as they do soul chant for his spirit falling in deep trance and ecstacy.
those things seem to be barbarian for our civilization in 2006 but before thousands of years was their religion,their civilization,years passed things changed...
I would like to share a shamanic experience that I had about a comunication with the spirit of a stone,just to mention the dangers of entering the spirit zone.
I read the instructions from a shamanic book wich I dont want to give(only if you pm me)
It was for a stone that I found on the forest wich I picked it up and take it to my house.I cleaned the stone esotericaly and from outside,then I putthe stone on my belly the center that we could comunicate with each different kind of being,I slept with the stone up on my belly and asking the stone telepathetically "why you came to me"...my sleep was strange listening to sounds like psychedelic music in my mind and have a kind of a trip....first night nothing...second night nothing...third night as was trying to sleep and waiting for the vision,sudenly a person who was like a gnome/troll with long hair and long bear,apeard in front of me,we start to talk the same language,at the end of the conversation he asked me if I wanted to follow him in his world,although I anderstood what we were talking about,in the end I forgot everything we said,only my subconcious remained not my concioucnes,for that reason I told him no.I was afraid because I wasnt sure were we gonna go and if that was a trap.The other night I tryied once again to ask for more and be more sure aboutr how,where and why...felt asleep and he came again,start to talk again asking him for more details why he came to me...in the end of conversation althought I anderstood what we said about,again when he asked if I wanted to follow him,I couldnt remeber what we said about,so I was sure now that this was a trap,so I said him for another one time no because I was afraid to follow someone who I dint know and dont even know were to go.
Becarefull guys shamanism is not a game,evil spirit awaits for naive person like me to catch their souls and then be able to have access from their side to our side,different dimensions in the same reality.
What about techno shamanism in trance,Goa Gill says that he is a techno shaman what he means by that?anyone knows what he means?
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 16:01
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 15:48, Gopendra wrote:
yes and the one who has to be sacrificed believed that after the sacrifice were able to visit god,so this was the ultimate spiritual value when you have to sacrifice your soul,then the person who sacrifices his self becames a sacred spirit from the other side of the spirit world able to give sacred mystical knowledge to other members of the tribe and guide them on their sacred ritual ceremonies,as they play the drum beat and ride the sound as a vehicle for a journey to mystical paths as they do soul chant for his spirit falling in deep trance and ecstacy.
those things seem to be barbarian for our civilization in 2006 but before thousands of years was their religion,their civilization,years passed things changed...
|
|
Evolved to a higher level of awarness and civilised conduct, is more correct.
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 15:48, Gopendra wrote:
What about techno shamanism in trance,Goa Gill says that he is a techno shaman what he means by that?anyone knows what he means?
|
|
Does he?
/jk.
Me>You |
|
|
|
Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
2394
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 16:19
|
@14 year old e-tard
very well exlpained in one only sentence,
but what about goa gill and techno shamanism
does he?why he said that ?what he means ?
if anyone knows I am really interesting to learn!
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
|
|
|
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 16:37
|
A psychedelic DJ guides the tripper thourgh a journey of magic.
A Shaman guids the "tripper" thourh a world of magic.
God is not a DJ, the DJ is a Shaman! 
|
|
|
|
lalala
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
89
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 18:32
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 15:11, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Of course you can, sacrificing human beings, is plain wrong...anyway you look at it.
|
|
Well in your opinion, and for that matter mine too, but for those who volunteered it was not wrong from their way of looking at it therefore your statement is incorrect.
As for anyone who says they are a shaman they are usually full of shyte and anyone who claims to be a techno shaman is probably an egomaniac who's taken too much acid.
Shamans had very specific roles in the community and not just cosmic ones. such as healing people ie medical care. |
|
|
|
14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 18:56
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 18:32, lalala wrote:
Well in your opinion, and for that matter mine too, but for those who volunteered it was not wrong from their way of looking at it therefore your statement is incorrect.
|
|
Who in their right mind would volunteer to kill them selves? If shamans or what have you, convinced people to sacrifice them selves, that is an entirely different matter, but still, fundamentaly wrong and stupid, if I might add.
Me>You |
|
|
|
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 19:03
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 18:32, lalala wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 15:11, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Of course you can, sacrificing human beings, is plain wrong...anyway you look at it.
|
|
Well in your opinion, and for that matter mine too, but for those who volunteered it was not wrong from their way of looking at it therefore your statement is incorrect.
|
|
Not to go politically offtopic here, but extreme islamic groups belive that by killing your self and people around you with (lets say) a bomb, in the name of Allah. You will be blessed and sendt to "heaven".
Does that make it right?
Of cource you dont think so. But to kill him self because of religius belives is still wrong imo. Doesnt matter if your sacrificing virgins at a volcano top or not. But hey! Do what you want right?
|
|
|
|
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 21:36
|
|
How can we say we are so much more evolved because today's violence doesnt have that spiritual quality to it? Its not as if we are less violent today in 2006, we just list the reasons differently. Is it truly worse to capture someone and sacrifice them (with their considering it an honor) than it is to drop a bomb down a chimney or "sacrifice" a criminal to the Gods of Law, order and Justice by leathal injection or electric chair? Is it truly worse to kill a person and eat their flesh than it is to kill a person and not eat their flesh?
|
|
|
|
Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
725
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 22:16
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-19 21:36, Psycosmo wrote:
Is it truly worse to kill a person and eat their flesh than it is to kill a person and not eat their flesh?
|
|
I guess it all depends on the nutritional value of human flesh.
Hey maybe killing the person and eating it makes it more of a ritual and you are forced to become more in touch with the reality of the situation. You know, humans eat animals without any regards to them, maybe we should start eating dead humans to become more counscious about the fact that human and animal meat are not much different. Maybe that way we would have more regards to all living beings.
|
|
|
|
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 00:41
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 00:54
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-01-18 23:43, Aluxe wrote:
Quote:
|
i guess if one invest alot of time in this it could give alot of power and wisdom... but it would probably take some sacrifice, meaning that we have to rethink alot of stuff that surrounds us....
|
|
well do you have anything better to do? Buddha said: "There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."
Sometimes I think I must find the answer, and sometimes I feel the answer is to surrender and stop looking for the answer.
and sometimes I think I just need to shut up, and dance !
Groove on trancer..
|
|
True... |
|
|
|
Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
725
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 03:05
|
Quote:
|
You are judging another culture with the values of your own. Perhaps in Aztec culture human sacrifice was not "tainted" to them perhaps our obsessive treasuring of our material bodies and avoidence of pain is "tainted"
|
|
Totally.
Also what we think is morally right today, in a billion years might seem like primitive backward superstition. So who ever was right then?
And maybe there is no ultimate truth.
=============
"There is nothing real outside our perception of reality, is there?"
|
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 20, 2006 03:57
|
Aluxe -
"Every system has rules set up. They've created their own reality. Try to change their reality and you will be faced with nonbelievers saying "you can't get away with that. That's against the rules." But all it takes is one man to start a change. And if you get away with something, another will too. Until the system has changed. And reality has changed.
Because reality is subjective. It's a definition of the norm. When more men get together and combine their perception of reality to overcome yours, their rules will apply. Example... kill someone, get caught, go to jail. No matter how much I think I can get away with killing someone, there is a VERY good chance that "reality" is going to destroy my belief and lock me away.
That's when "insanity" kicks in. But that too is subjective. To the rest of the world, Farmer Ted, who saw a spaceship land and turn his cows inside out, is insane. Spaceships don't exist. The cows are just gone, not inside out. He imagined it. He was drunk. Or just plain crazy.
But what if it DID happen? His reality is that E.T. zapped his herd. Our reality is that it's not possible. So maybe it did, but there's no proof. And we're all "insane" and he's not.
But that's not how the system works, is it? We're the norm, so we decide that we are sane and he is not. And that's that. No matter what the truth is. No matter what Reality is."
http://www.deadhero.com/ramblings/2000/subjective_reality/index.html
just a funny thing i found by googling "reality is subjective" |
|
|
|
|
