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shamanism in trance
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2006 08:45
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On 2006-01-09 12:11, Psycosmo wrote:
I think that what you bring up about rituals of human sacrifice in relation to hallucinogens is an important topic that doesnt get enough discussion in the enthogen community. It isnt a particularly pleasant subject for an enthogen lover but here is my best defense
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I don't think really a defense is needed. There is no doubt that pretty much all cultures around the world have their share of inhumane atrocities. (Like what you mentioned or the Inquisition, the burining of the witches, the holocoust, hiroshima, etc) There are countless more. So the Aztecs weren't really any worse at all.
However, their priests did consume hallucinogenic substances. So if hallucinogenics are a true source of knowledge then why didn't the priests realize in those shamanic states the atrocities they were comitting?
Maybe hallucinogens only give you access to a new dimension, however they don't necessecarely tell you which way to go. So my guess is the Aztecs interpreted everything in those altered states according to the way they already understood the universe and then possibly giving it a new twist, although not necessarely in the right direction.
In the Aztec creation story, two Gods were selected to throw themselves into a blaze of fire in order to create the world. However when the strongest and most vigorous of the two Gods was about to jump, he backs out. The second God who was humble, small and poor without a thought then jumps into the blaze turning himself into the sun. Seen this the other God jumps into the blaze and turns into the moon. Some other Gods then also sacrificed themselves creating the precious water that is needed to live. And so therefore man was obliged to eternally recreate the divine sacrifice with blood.
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2006 16:38
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On 2006-01-04 12:05, odysseus wrote:
while i read gopendra posts at this topic ,reminds me *Sidarta*
keep your thoughts alive and don"t change that with the past of the years bro
happy new year 
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yes Sidhartha an indian tale with much shamanic elements,because we see someone who listen to the sounds of nature(ambient live music from earth) and the voice within self the inner part of self ,by chanting OHM ,a way to communicate with natural spirits,as he walking on the ground realises the sacredness of each different landscape,when he smells the flowers is like those green colored beings sharing their spirit with him
...a summer festival deep in the forest help us find ispiration,hallucinogenics helps to cross easier on the other side(doors-break on through the other side),but a real shaman have to pass from all those elementals,sacred plants get the experience in nature and after some journeys have already made the macrocosmic map of the spirit world and start triping only with the pure energy of nature...I have seen visions as I listen to trance with astral fluo pink stones wich I fastly collect with the rythm of music ,those energetic stones giving me a pure halucinogenic power the time I need it without being nessecery to eat a mushroom...
all those macrocosmic elements(sacred plants,lsd..)are hidden deep inside our microcosm,if we respect ,love and feel the sacredness of nature than nature gives us back that energy in double,and that is something that I experience for example at samothraki dance festival tha time I had my first footsteps on that holy ground...I remember my self receiving a pure hallocinogenic macrocosmic element from the leaf trees without need to take any substance only with a few spliefs from a good joint just helped me to open the gate and jump into those realms ...feel the energy of the plant,love the trees and they will love you speak to them and they will hear you...a real shaman reaches a state that passes through the spirit world without substances,becasue he knows the sacred path and the way how to get there when he becames one with the spirit around...ask for the pure vision and it will come,pray to the holy cosmic mother for help and guidance,pray to the cosmic father sun to charge you with energy and you would be able to dance in trance full of energy for hours....the pure shamanic way is like being happaning a kind of spiritual healing between you and nature ,exchange of energy between microcosm and microcosm with love...
imagine that the energtic microcosm inside the body is like web wich is conected with the big cosmic web, and everything around the space and time,when I listen to the music and starting to think the most concioulsy I could,then I start to feel that my web with the center of the heart expands with music like a spider running fast forward the future or back in past...
Before I start a shamanic trip with music I programing my mind and look for a sacred reason for trip,find my helepfull spirits ,ask for guidance and protection the holy spirit and then start chasing always the last sound,the most fresh one and jump on that soundscapes exploring the mystical hidden sacred worlds...returning to the source...
when I reach the middle state between sleep and awake is the time where the gate is opened and I jump in trance ,so I have to learn by experience wich is the right moment the right second to pass through...
sorry if I get bored but I think that this topic is getting like a neo shamanic manual for trance and music,and a helpfull read to awake the spirit more...!!!
 ~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2006 17:04
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thanks to moderators who unlocked the topic,trancers need some basic knowledge for guidance in trance...
about the existance of shamans
traditional shamans like those who do typical ritual and shamanic journeys to cure a disease for a person wich came from an evil spirit is only for the past before 45000 years,but there are still indigenous shamans at colombia as I know and have contact with them who making rituals with ayahuasca and get in contact with nature and talk with god.A shaman from the past could even had the power to awake someone from the dead but nowdays those typical ritual ceremonies are lost hidden in the mystical sacred roots...
we have lost the harmonious ballance with nature we are just a kind of a shamanic evolution,and only a few gnosis is left anymore in the hand of indigenous tribes on the amazon jungle.
we have so many medicines and doctors who replaced shamans...but we still could move the medicine wheel the time we dance and trip with music togeter as one and gather love peace harmony and respect,to heal for....
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 10, 2006 19:47
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I think a lot of people who follow this kind of religion or so called shamanism are in a way the shaman's of today without knowing or without admitting it. Who follow a path and are interested in the growing love of mother nature and spirit zones inside of you. Seek and you shall find!
Bom
Ganja
Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!
Please Check our music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=438956
www.soulkontakt.com
contact :soulkontakt@hotmail.com |
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lalala
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 12, 2006 17:07
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On 2005-12-26 20:42, Gopendra wrote:
Dance culture is a nuevo-shamanic statement,a return to the tribal conciousnes with elements of sacred plants the sacraments wich will take us on a journey back to our shamanic roots.Trance festivals described as a ritual,tribal rite,in wich people dance for nights and days on electronic beats wich mimic the shamans drum.The beats the lights,lasers and psychedelic hallucinogenics serve as a catalyst for the participants of these rituals to enter into altered states of conciousnes continuing the centuries old shamanic traditions.People feel enhanced energy and the urge to dance,lost in the hypnotic rythms discovering realms through the spirit world , into a modern equivalent of the shamanic trance.The treble sounds act as a food for the imagination and we could even see geometric patterns,fractals, tripping into other dimensions in space and time...
what do you beleive about that?
are there any shamanic elements in rave culture?
with respect in any possible opinion!
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I think its nonsense. In true shamanistic traditions involve a lot of dicipline and sometimes pain. A far cry from toking on a spliff or necking a couple of tabs.
However altered states of conciousness and dream like states yes, but without the dicipline it can be dodgy. I think hallucinogen use in our culture is good for creativity/leads to magical experiences at best and at worst can cause mental problems.
however shamanism is a broad term which covers many different cultures. Because of the complete lack of self dicipline in hallucinogen use in the west and/or ancient cultural traditional guidance i do not think it can really be classed as shamanism.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 13, 2006 05:10
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On 2006-01-12 17:07, lalala wrote:
I think its nonsense. In true shamanistic traditions involve a lot of dicipline and sometimes pain. A far cry from toking on a spliff or necking a couple of tabs.
However altered states of conciousness and dream like states yes, but without the dicipline it can be dodgy. I think hallucinogen use in our culture is good for creativity/leads to magical experiences at best and at worst can cause mental problems.
however shamanism is a broad term which covers many different cultures. Because of the complete lack of self dicipline in hallucinogen use in the west and/or ancient cultural traditional guidance i do not think it can really be classed as shamanism.
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I pretty much agree with you Lala, because of the lack of self discipline what we do cannot be called "shamanism", to do so would be to denigrate serious spiritual traditions which have a long and storied and gloried history. For example where hallucinogens are culturally sactioned, it is common for people to eat ritual diets, undergo prolonged isolation in the wilderness, and abstain from sexual intercourse for a peroid of time before and sometimes after the taking of the plant. Don't think the majority of psytrancers make any such effort.
At best, I think it could be said that we have a kind of proto-shamanism which began in the 1960's and has yet to develop into anything substantial. Influences of shamanism are clearly present in our music and arts, and to some degree in the general life philosophy of many (but not all) psytrancers. Still, we have yet to clearly define ourselves as a shamanic community, and win acceptance from cultures that already have strong shamanic traditions.
I hope that some day we have systems of art and music that are tailored for their effects of consciouness, such as the icaros of the Amazonian peoples, or Mantras and Yantras of South asia. Perhaps some day drugs, music, art, and protocols of social behavior will be brought together at parties at ways that work to produce specific changes in the minds of the participants.
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 13, 2006 09:02
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odysseus
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 13, 2006 11:44
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On 2005-12-28 19:42, odysseus wrote:
but don"t worry gopendra my friend ,all of us got this magic as you mentioned for the music especially at our first trancexperiences, and allways new artists and new projects will appear & produce quality stuff with this mystycist influences we like..
just search to find them.. 
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good morning friend!!
check this.: http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/ppn/ppn1cd001.html
give me darma, take your karma.. |
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 16, 2006 08:21
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On 2006-01-13 11:44, odysseus wrote:
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On 2005-12-28 19:42, odysseus wrote:
but don"t worry gopendra my friend ,all of us got this magic as you mentioned for the music especially at our first trancexperiences, and allways new artists and new projects will appear & produce quality stuff with this mystycist influences we like..
just search to find them..
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good morning friend!!
check this.: http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/ppn/ppn1cd001.html
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thanks buddy this one also added on my order list hihi,texas thc - liquid starting with someone talking about...related with the topic,hehe
I would like to add that is good to have in mind the cosmology of the universe,and try to relate that kind of knowledge with the music,that helps to explore more easy and conciously as we ride the sounds and travel around the space.I have read the cosmology from the ancient greek alchemist Parakeltus wich was so inspiring as reading it while I was listening to psychedelic trance,shamanic spirit is everywhere...
@psycosmo
what an interesting links well related with the topic,thanks!
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 16, 2006 20:15
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The thing is psychoactive substances take you to areas, dimensions and places that we don’t understand. Also, many shamanistic rituals may be tainted with useless and even harmful practices coming out from erroneous beliefs. One extreme example is the Aztecs doing human sacrifice while on hallucinogens. It be great if we could understand what goes on in those dimensions, because as Terrence Mkenna said: I don’t even consider myself a scientist, rather an explorer. He said something like that we need to map hyperspace so that later we can start building bridges so that everybody can visit these areas.
But perhaps before we can understand hyperspace we first need to understand the mind and how this affects the reality we see. Then maybe later we can paint a better picture of what goes on in hyperspace. Or.. maybe we just need to ask the elves in the DMT dimension, right? It is my feeling that they surely know more than us.
The thing is all this Shamanism stuff borders with what is considered supernatural: faerie dimensions, UFOs, sasquatch, leumurians, hidden societies, other worlds inhabited by intelligent entities. I wonder how many of these things are connected? I mean how far does the psychedelic rabbit hole goe? Many people tell you many things but who really knows? Like I was once told that in the 5th dimension all you believe instantly becomes true, so as fun as this may sound it can go really wrong with the wrong thoughts. I wonder, is the 5th dimension connected to the mushroom, dmt, peyote, lsd dimension? or is just a hippy thougtht? I have found that when you are tripping all your thoughts are extremely powerful and belief is very linked to what you experience, faith becomes very powerful/important it seems. Maria Sabina the mushroom healer used to say: those who believe will be healed are healed, and those who do not are not. There is also a Maya saying that goes: he who believes creates and he who creates makes. (el que cree, crea, y el que crea, hace)
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[Ada-superwoman]
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 17, 2006 01:29
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 17, 2006 04:04
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interesting indeed...
i have to add, inspierd by Gopendra.
About a year ago i was spiritual enriched. I have always strived for spiruality and i believed in nature and its power, but it was not like the awarness that this ecperience im about to tell you gaved me.
so some time ago
i had a feeling of universal unity! i believed that i could use the energy around me to feel good and to get alert...
i could use it for many things, like motivating my self amongst other things, and i could also share it with others(which i did feel before i had this experience)
so you might say that i always had this awarness of energies, but i didnt use them in a way that could benifit my ordinary life..
If i feelt tired i closed my eyes and relaxed, soaking up the energy around me.
i feelt a universal connection and i believed in it..
i did this numerous of times at work, when i had a break and feelt really tired...
and believe me it worked, i got new energy, i feelt more alert...
maybe a reason was that i was relaxing and my thoughts were positive, but my thoughts were very concentrated on soaking up energy, i almost feelt it in my fingertips.
Also soaking up the suns energy worked like a charm..
the sun was giving me new energy,
i figured it was like charging a battery and i feelt aware of it, even a second in the sun was making a change.
I also feelt very aware of my sexual energy which made me more poistive.
but after a while these visions stopped, i stopped practising what was given to me.
im still aware, but its like im blocked, i dont practise this kind of "energy chargings" anylonger, i dont know why.
You see i thought about this everyday.
I had visions of unity. unity with energy.
I feelt the energy around me so much, i feelt the energy of almost everything
and it was a bless.
it was a feeling of connection, and i was very happy about my discovery of the cosmic energy.. cause that is what i would call it.
this might sound trippy, and i can say that cannabis was something that opend the door to this kind of thinking...
now some of you might say that this is a stoner thought and its not real...
but it feelt real and i say again, it worked for me...
and maybe its all about that... maybe i could have believed in some god and it wouldnt matter...
To get enlighted by Hallucinogenics that is provided by the earth is for me a sign...
the nature speaks to us in a deeper sense.
All the love for the nature and insights that hallucinogenics has given me is something that i dont think anything else could have done...
some people dont know that the nature is also alive! just as alive as the animals that walks this earth.
and without it there would be no us...
i just feelt i wanted to share this with you, even if its offtopic
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 17, 2006 08:28
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I feel ya N.E.S, its amazing how effective simply focusing ones mind on the concept of energy is. My theory of the moment about how "magic" plants can teach this is that that they increase awareness of the power of ones thoughts and attention to facilliate transfomation. This can be either positive (as you describe) or destructive, opposite to what you desribe, in shamanic cultures, witchcraft is generally thought to stem from anger and jelousy, which fester in ones heart and are thought to cause harm to others, either unintentionally (as beleived by the Azande accorder to Evans-Pritchards account of his time with them) or intentionally (such as through an ayahuasqueros use of virotes, which are metaphysical darts of ill will which an initiated sorcerer is thought to be able to manufacture inside his body and send out to do harm to others.
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Freeflow
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Posted : Jan 17, 2006 23:08
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Psycosmo
yeah its interesting stuff..
i guess if one invest alot of time in this it could give alot of power and wisdom... but it would probably take some sacrifice, meaning that we have to rethink alot of stuff that surrounds us....
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 18, 2006 23:43
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i guess if one invest alot of time in this it could give alot of power and wisdom... but it would probably take some sacrifice, meaning that we have to rethink alot of stuff that surrounds us....
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well do you have anything better to do? Buddha said: "There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting."
Sometimes I think I must find the answer, and sometimes I feel the answer is to surrender and stop looking for the answer.
and sometimes I think I just need to shut up, and dance !
Groove on trancer..
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