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shamanism in trance
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
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3709
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 02:16
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where you talking about shamanism?
thats very interesting! |
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Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
42
Posts :
787
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 09:17
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Come on cant we just talk about SHAMANISM? I really liked this topic but now its another referrendum on if drugs are good or bad. Maybe Oran was right when he locked this thread (tho Im glad to see it back unlocked). Sure its almost impossible to talk about shamanism without talking about drugs, but the problem was that this discussion is turning into one about drugs but not shamanism.
SO to bring us back on topic I ask you all this question:
Do you think certain kinds of music bring out/intensify "visuals"? I ask this because shamans in the amazon using specific melodies to brighten or dim the visions of their patients and I have experienced this phenomena from different trance trax.
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LiPoCat
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
90
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 11:31
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in fact the shaman beat is a repair
when the trip is deep the shaman sing for maintening the real world above the enlight world
shaman sounds are a gate open to come back
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 11:56
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On 2005-12-30 07:54, Demezriel wrote:
I'm not saying I agree with Mckenna, since I don't have all the data and didn't do the research, but on the other hand the opposite position : ie. shamans can assume their roles without the use of psychedelic plants, is also un-proven. But we can experience the effects of the psychedelic shamanism first hand whereas with other methods verification is much more difficult. I tend to sympathize with McKenna's position though, seeing as he is one of the few who actually spent alot of time going around the world, talking to various shamans and being in close contact with various shamanistic traditions. Perhaps the source of your outrage is that we don't share the same conception of what a shaman is or should be, and also that we have reverse conceptions of the phenomenon of shamanism/psychedelics. You think the use of psychedelics was introduced to enhance an already existant shamanism, whereas I would rather maintain that it was the effect of psychedelic substance on humanity that caused the strong presence of shamanistic traditions across the globe and time. Peace.
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Truly true.
 "Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 13:20
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On 2006-01-04 16:37, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Exactly the same can be said about the people who believe acid is the modern shamanic potion and deny the findings of medicine.
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Which findings?
Western science and medicine is utterly inefficient, their perception of the truth is constantly changing, yet, they want it to appear as if the present truth is the ultimate truth, they devote themselves to probabilistic theories, they’ve been found wrong so many times, that I could write a James Joyce sized novel about the erroneous nature of numerous of their so-called empirical findings.
Social science, the field which I study, is even more ludicrous, my professor’s so-called heroes are far better at predicting weather changes then actual social changes in our societies.
Yet, I enjoy studying social science (politics and sociology), the more politically perceptive I become, the easier it becomes to argue against the current political arena, and seek a revolution of some sort, albeit, not in the communist sense or military sense, since, I believe the challenge of our times is accepting the FACT, that there is NO violent way to peace.
Sociology definitively shows how visionary and perceptive Terence McKenna essentially was. I have used his ideas immensely in the field of sociology and his conceptions and notions regarding our western societies, with immense success. In-fact I based a whole paper upon some of his ideas regarding the dynamics (ever changing pace of our societies), with remarkable results  . I view his sociological “predictions” as being far more reliable, then most of the predictions of my professor’s heroes.
Many of the founders of Silicon Wally experimented with psychotropic substances and that’s a FACT. Steve Jobs (the founder of apple), is an excellent example, the way you perceive computers today, was largely due to this man’s vision, who used psychedelics, like it or not. Shareware is another original concept, created through the use of psychedelics, this is a verifiable FACT. Numerous studies were conducted in the sixties that showed a definitive correlation between the use of psychedelics and enhanced creativity or originality. Many engineers reported that they were able to see the circuits which they were working on, during a psychedelic experiment, which in-turn could greatly help them in their work. Aldus Huxley whose books are still being taught in Denmark, was enormously inspired by his use of psychedelics, Aldus Huxley is considered one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century. I don’t remember the name of the scientist who won the Nobel price, however his discovery revolutionized the scientific field of DNA, and that’s a FACT, furthermore, he openly speaks about his usage of psychedelics. In addition, one has to remember that many people are afraid to reveal such a usage, since; using these substances is a social taboo. Unfortunately very little research is being done around the world on this subject.
Many doctors and scientists are afraid of engaging in such studies, since entering this field is virtually an academic dead end! It’s not an area which is well sought off. I would recommend you got a hold of a documentary called Psychedelic Science, so you can hear the words from the horse’s mouth.
The reason that trance is staring to suck ass, is exactly because we are stepping further and further away from shamanism.
The word trance descends from shamanism! Being in a state of trance is a shamanic practice. So naturally there is a connection between Psy-trance (one can always check the dic. and see what the definition of psy. if one is in doubt of the connection of Psy-trance and shamanism  ) and shamanism.
Love my friend .
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 14:01
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I'll support psycosmo's request.
Please let's continue with the topic, which is very interesting and maybe you can take the drug ideology / alternative medicine discussions and personal fights somewhere else?
Thanks.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 14:02
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I already do that , I write on the wonderful forum of http://www.entheogen.com/. That’s why I’ve been posting less on Isratrance recently.
However, there’s is no fight what so ever between me and e-tard, we’ve had many fascinating discussions prior to this one.
I definitely wasn’t the one who started this discussion, yet, I feel I have a right to reply to what I consider wrong information (or in other words, if they can state their opinions, I should have the right to do the same). I respect Isratranc’s policy regarding drugs, that’s why I’ve been posting less; nonetheless, I feel that I have a right to reply to posts which already deal with the subject. If that’s wrong, then I’m sorry.
Love and light .
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 14:33
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i dont know who did, but the moderator which deleted my posts here could maybe say why my posts didnt belong the the topic? you must have a pretty good knowlegde about shamanism, if you say that something "belongs" and "dont belongs" to it.
thanks in advance.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 7, 2006 18:03
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Let them Delete! The truth is out there!
if you want it!!
Director of The Shamanic Society
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Jan 8, 2006 04:09
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-07 09:17, Psycosmo wrote:
Do you think certain kinds of music bring out/intensify "visuals"? I ask this because shamans in the amazon using specific melodies to brighten or dim the visions of their patients and I have experienced this phenomena from different trance trax.
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in shamanic traditions from all over the world, sounds (primarily, chants) have been used to guide visions and experiences in specific directions. south and central asian traditions have very specific instructions on what mantras should be chanted in relation to which circumstance
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On 2006-01-07 13:20, The Green Channel wrote:
Western science and medicine is utterly inefficient, their perception of the truth is constantly changing, yet, they want it to appear as if the present truth is the ultimate truth, they devote themselves to probabilistic theories, they’ve been found wrong so many times, that I could write a James Joyce sized novel about the erroneous nature of numerous of their so-called empirical findings.
I believe the challenge of our times is accepting the FACT, that there is NO violent way to peace.
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i find it interesting how you criticize some for laying something out as the ultimate truth, and then you go ahead and do the same, give us some "FACT", something you take to be independent of you. while i agree with you in theory, i urge you to practice what you preach (and god knows it is hard, doing raw's exercises helps)
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Jan 8, 2006 13:28
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Off-topic:
Dear Further and nolightatend,
I believe "the" truth is out there, however, one should never say; I have "found" the truth, one should say; I have found a truth.
Further, don't get me wrong , I, like Socrates and Plato believe that a metaphysical truth is present (though, I may not always be able see or understand this truth) .
Nevertheless, I consider it a fact, that our societies have failed, the combination of Capitalism and Democracy has been unsuccessful, hence, our Science and Medicine have at least to some extend failed miserably as-well.
Yes, some portion of the world's population have more toys now, then they had a 1000 years ago (because of Science), so what?
Do you "subscribe" to the notion that the one who ends up with most toys wins (capitalism one0one)? Because I don't , I don't think you are the cloth you ware, or how much money you have on your bank account, or the company that you work for nor is your education your identity, your "True Self" is behind the mask.
Nolightatend, thank you for adressing the historical aspect of my post , in truth, the Second World War only created a partial peace in Europa, don't forget the Balkens . Moreover, the peace which the Western Europa thrives upon presently, was initially established in-order to counter the Warsaw pact.
While, I'm not saying that the Second World War wasn't a Just war to enter! I'm saying that it didn't lead to "ultimate" peace, since, we've exprienced so many wars following the Second World War.
My studies of our History have definitively let me to believe that bloodshed leads to more bloodshed, it's inevitable IMHO. Like Gandhi said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". I feel that if people searched their hearts they would agree with Gandhi. I mean if one is able to convince the British Empire to leave their Crown Colony, without ever firing a shot or using violence, truly anything is possible.
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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shamanizer
Started Topics :
7
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367
Posted : Jan 8, 2006 13:41
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Yes, there are still shamans around the world. They could have different names in different cultures and rituals may vary, but the core is the same everywhere. Ofcourse modern culture doesn't leave much space for shamanism, since it was forbidden to practice it in many places for a long time, but nowadays, when the topic is not such a taboo, awareness has grown again.
There are still some shamans in Finland, some 'modern' who adopted the rituals again and actually sell their services and some indigenous shamans, mostly in Lapland among Sami people, where shamanism has been a part of traditional heritage.
A notion on drumming in shamanistic rituals of Sami people. In rituals the shaman or assistand starts drumming the shaman drum and it takes the shaman to the state of trance and to the spititual world. Drummer uses different rhytms in entering the spiritual world and for coming back to our world. Drumming is widely used in shamanistic rituals around the world. Different drumming rhytms are used also in psytrance, so there is at least this sort of connection between shamanism and psy. Many trancers also aim to go into the state of trance while dancing and have a spiritual experience. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 8, 2006 16:46
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nolightatend - i think shamans are born everyday.
some of us might be shamans without knowing it...
everyone has a gift, and it can be called alot of things!
modern society is just not as close to nature as people need to be, thats why many gifts are in vain.
want to know your self!
Go out and live some time in the nature 
find your place in nature!
and it dosent take a week
probably takes a life time, and sometimes more..
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