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Saving this world!

Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 5, 2005 12:44
Quote:

On 2005-05-05 11:05, The Green Channel wrote:
I think you misunderstood him Ott

The world is magnificent and spectacularly beautiful, every time I travel I’m reminded of the goodness of people and come back with a feeling of hope for the planet. I also try to be one huge beacon of happiness and optimism when relating to the world ...

However, if you read in-between the lines, what he is actually saying is that we have gone one step forward in terms of technology, but two steps back spiritually. This would account for the extremely high suicide-rate in the west for instance and in comparison with Africa where the suicide-rate is virtually non existent (because when you are fighting for life, you are not thinking of killing yourself)... Many of the problems that people have in the wast, are really superficial and in truth unnecessary.





-----------------------------------------

Yep!I agree completely.
That is why us westerns like to travel in laid back countries because their soul & sense of spirituality is much bigger than those in the so called "Civilized world".

Once in India I met this very poor Indian livivng on the streets and I asked him:

"How do you manage to keep that smile on your face eventhough you don't have anything in life?"

his answer was:
"I don't know how you westerns don't manage to keep a smile on your face eventhough you have everything"
andrejcid
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  355
Posted : May 5, 2005 15:16
well, i dont really think madman was saying something even close to your observation. he just said the vaguely factual reality..which i personally have no problem with.no deeper meaning imo.
indeed we dont know ourselves...but ott gave a good reasoning for that. if we did know ourselves (?!?!) thoroughly, we'd be facing a boring life with no space for personal development. it is rather impossible....and undesirable if u ask me.
afterall, even in anciant past ppl didnt know themselves, but many knew how to make their weapon for instance and kill the bear to feed. any different to nowdays?

as far as the 'steps' are concerned, indeed we have advanced technologicaly but what makes u think we've regressed spiritually?
afterall, it is a very vague analogy of comparrison u use green chanel.u use 'steps'(?!?!?!) to measure spirituality and technology, which are two totally different things but yet related, and their meaning andlessly debateable. looking at that in a physical point of view, u say these 2 aspects of our lifes are comparatively measurable and have this property 'x' with units 'STEPS'. now u got me confused! what is the meaning of those tech/spiritual steps' regression/progression?is it quantity, quality, abundance......what?

no need to answer really, as it was rather rethorical. u cant compare these 2 in the way u do, as they feed on eachother.
regarding the suicide rate, I also think is absolute bollocks. there are many more factors to b considered. furthermore, it is very often that 'those spiritual ppl' and religious fundamentalists (I call them xtreeme fear fanatics) that commit suicide. also, what makes u think that the suicides are a spiritual breakdown? could be as some of u call it 'enlightment' (hate this word!)
and why many ppl see technology as an oponent to spirituality???technology has always been there (in different forms and deffinitions) as part of the material word, which is where we live in and feed our 'spirits' from.
thanx to tech, i may one day go to space and have the deepest 'spiritual experience' ever, no matter if plesant or unplesant. there are countless number of examples like that (from very modest to extreme as the one I gave)

many here debate bout spirituality, but yet see it and attempt to define it using prototypes and certain words/phrases that have a standardised 'spiritual' meaning. but we do that for everything dont we? in this case (case:spirituality ) that is a contradiction, as well as a proof of how cliched this issue has become. spirituality is not something one needs to be tought! when tought through 'guidlines' and certain standards, it loses its unique meaning each and every of has had, and becomes dictatorial....as religion!

also, it is very often for ppl to think retrospetively for their future 'progressive' ideas, and we often seem to idealise the good old past. but many dont realise that it is the myths(created to glorify human existence & hide the imperfections) that we really idealise. I enjoy living today and wouldnt under any circumstances attempt to 'go' back to the 'spiritual times' where for example the religion (ppl like to reffer to it as if its the truely real spirtual truth phenomena) dictated ppl's lifes. no fuckin way.

about saving this world...well, b4 u save it, u need to find out what/who needs to be saved and why. thanx, but I, as part of this world u intend to change, refuse to be 'saved'. can scrub me out from the list....
offering a salvation in the way u do wezzy, and assuming u succeed although it is firmly impossible, will ultimately bring us to the same position we are now, but in a different form. I say this as there would be again the one with this great idea we all need to follow. I see that as no different to religion, where the big one - god, holds the ultimate truth, that many chose to follow. similar analogy with politics.
afterall, maybe hitler onse had an idea to 'save'/change this world in a way he considered would be better, and he did in the end change this world slightly, fortunately not the way he wanted....


something else....all these ideas we have (this also holds for trance music/culture, as well as many other things) are a by product of this 'world' and reality we live in. hence, using these 'progressive' ideas to save/change this world would bring to a huge contradiction.....dont know how to explain it but i'll try..
take for example CHAOS. a scientist decides to change (& control) the world by revealing an exact meaning of chaos and eventually discovers a simple mathematical formula for it-->everyone's happy. but having discovered the equation, chaos looses its meaning and is no longer chaos.we decide to give it another word and rather different deffinite meaning. but then, how can it be different when this scientist had started/done his survay by taking assumption (or 'facts') we already have known about CHAOS?! will this new finding change the world or eliminate the possibility of chaos existence?....and thousadsa of more questions could be rised. it is contradictory indeed

dont know if its a good example really, hope u can grasp what i mean.

why oh why u ppl dig into things like this?!u need to understand that the world is constantly changing, with every action of every single human being, as well as every natural process.
dont know if u've seen the butterfly effect, where a very good point has been made. that is, a very small unimportant action we've made could bring to a change in this world, or rather a change in the way we interpret and live in this world. hence, 'the world' is not really an entity on its own that we all see the same way....

blaah i wrote 2much

take care geezers

          Why u little !!!
Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 5, 2005 16:38
Yes the civilized world had regressed a lot in spirituality and not just spirituality but even life in general!!!!!!
Our countries are fucken boring and we live in what Mr.Leary would call "A TV SHOW"!

We are loosing our natural state in the civilized world no matter if one agrees or not,this is a fact!!!

Don't know mate,I travelled in both civilized countries & 3rd world countries and the difference between these 2 worlds ia a huge one.

Compare,
India,Nepal,Thailand,Morocco,Mexico etc....
with
England,Malta,Germany,Denmark & New York...
and you'll know what I mean!
We are loosing it dude,we are.
All I hear about in our civilized world is abut money, about the loans I have to pay,I bought a new car,i got a new job with a good salary but I have to work 50 hrs a week and I'm on call 24hrs a day and all this bullshit!

Sometimes I meet people on the way to the beach and they'll offcourse ask me where I'm going.
Most of the people if I tell them I'm going too the beach to watch a sunset they'll keep looking at me and ask me "What do you mean,so you actually sit there and see the sun goind down?What's the point?"And I live in Malta mate a place full of "Sunworshipers temples".
Or when I was going to India....hehheeee...
So people were asking me "So are you going for mission work?That's nice of you!"Once I told them that I was going to India just to travel and see it's beauties and meet with people everyone was telling me "So are actually going to leave your job to go to a poor,dirty and dangerous place like India?You're crazy!!!".
And let us mention when I meet people and tell them I'm not a Christian but I'm a 100% God lover.They just can't understand this because they were brought up to beleive that if you don't follow a book called the Holy Bible you are wrong and you are going straight to hell!!!!!
Is this where you want to spend the rest of your life?
Me personally,no fricken way!

And let us mention another thing:
So Malta is know to be the most SWEARABLE coutry in the world and at the same time one of the most Catholic countries too.

Imagine this on 27km by 36km we have around 70 churches,chapels and domes,the richest in the world followed by Italy.

When I say SWEARABLE it means that you hear people all the time (and I mena it all the time) swearing about God and the saints and holy Mary etc...) Fuck him,fuck her etc.....
for nothing!!!!!So you might hear someone saying I'm off to work fuck..........
Or I feel so happy tonight fuck..........

And then I think about 60% of the people go to church on Sunday morning to redeem theirselves and once the mass is over they'll start swearing again and carry on with their bad lives!!!!and if you tell them that you do not go to church they actually pray for you cause you are a lost soul!!!!

That's what I call pure Hipocrizm...!

I hate this rat race and this material,hypocrit and unnatural world we live in:THE CIVILIZED WORLD!!!!!!

It's like you have to pay someone to get a smile ot of his/her face.Is this how it should be?
NO!




Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 5, 2005 17:12
Or else listen to this story of when I got married:
So with difference from the rest of the Maltese which get married and would say:
"I hate the church and I'm not actually a Christian but I'll still get married in the Catholic church beacuse of the society"
My wife & I decided not to get married in Church cause we are not Christians so let us not be hipocrits.So we went to the marriage government office and they ware explaing few things to us about the "Ceremony".Ok,so at a point she made us read a vow,sign it and then the famous wooden cross came out of her drawer and said "Now,you have to read this paragraph and swear to God by kissing the cross".And we said ok,let's get over wioth it and do it.As soon as we did that she told us:"Now during the ceremony you have to be very carfeul not to mention God's name ever cause by refusing the church you are also refusing GOD!!!!After she made us kiss the cross!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this the civilized world?
Ott^
OTT

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  488
Posted : May 5, 2005 17:54
Why did you feel the need to have your relationship with your woman approved by the Government?
Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 5, 2005 17:58
Quote:

On 2005-05-05 17:54, Ott^ wrote:
Why did you feel the need to have your relationship with your woman approved by the Government?



------------------------------------------

Cause I wanted to have children and if you have children without being married your children would be considered as illegal ones in our civilized world.
The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  41
Posts :  1025
Posted : May 5, 2005 19:14
Quote:

On 2005-05-05 15:16, andrejcid wrote:
well, i dont really think madman was saying something even close to your observation. he just said the vaguely factual reality..which i personally have no problem with.no deeper meaning imo.
indeed we dont know ourselves...but ott gave a good reasoning for that. if we did know ourselves (?!?!) thoroughly, we'd be facing a boring life with no space for personal development. it is rather impossible....and undesirable if u ask me.
afterall, even in anciant past ppl didnt know themselves, but many knew how to make their weapon for instance and kill the bear to feed. any different to nowdays?

as far as the 'steps' are concerned, indeed we have advanced technologicaly but what makes u think we've regressed spiritually?
afterall, it is a very vague analogy of comparrison u use green chanel.u use 'steps'(?!?!?!) to measure spirituality and technology, which are two totally different things but yet related, and their meaning andlessly debateable. looking at that in a physical point of view, u say these 2 aspects of our lifes are comparatively measurable and have this property 'x' with units 'STEPS'. now u got me confused! what is the meaning of those tech/spiritual steps' regression/progression?is it quantity, quality, abundance......what?

no need to answer really, as it was rather rethorical. u cant compare these 2 in the way u do, as they feed on eachother.
regarding the suicide rate, I also think is absolute bollocks. there are many more factors to b considered. furthermore, it is very often that 'those spiritual ppl' and religious fundamentalists (I call them xtreeme fear fanatics) that commit suicide. also, what makes u think that the suicides are a spiritual breakdown? could be as some of u call it 'enlightment' (hate this word!)
and why many ppl see technology as an oponent to spirituality???technology has always been there (in different forms and deffinitions) as part of the material word, which is where we live in and feed our 'spirits' from.
thanx to tech, i may one day go to space and have the deepest 'spiritual experience' ever, no matter if plesant or unplesant. there are countless number of examples like that (from very modest to extreme as the one I gave)

many here debate bout spirituality, but yet see it and attempt to define it using prototypes and certain words/phrases that have a standardised 'spiritual' meaning. but we do that for everything dont we? in this case (case:spirituality ) that is a contradiction, as well as a proof of how cliched this issue has become. spirituality is not something one needs to be tought! when tought through 'guidlines' and certain standards, it loses its unique meaning each and every of has had, and becomes dictatorial....as religion!

also, it is very often for ppl to think retrospetively for their future 'progressive' ideas, and we often seem to idealise the good old past. but many dont realise that it is the myths(created to glorify human existence & hide the imperfections) that we really idealise. I enjoy living today and wouldnt under any circumstances attempt to 'go' back to the 'spiritual times' where for example the religion (ppl like to reffer to it as if its the truely real spirtual truth phenomena) dictated ppl's lifes. no fuckin way.

about saving this world...well, b4 u save it, u need to find out what/who needs to be saved and why. thanx, but I, as part of this world u intend to change, refuse to be 'saved'. can scrub me out from the list....
offering a salvation in the way u do wezzy, and assuming u succeed although it is firmly impossible, will ultimately bring us to the same position we are now, but in a different form. I say this as there would be again the one with this great idea we all need to follow. I see that as no different to religion, where the big one - god, holds the ultimate truth, that many chose to follow. similar analogy with politics.
afterall, maybe hitler onse had an idea to 'save'/change this world in a way he considered would be better, and he did in the end change this world slightly, fortunately not the way he wanted....


something else....all these ideas we have (this also holds for trance music/culture, as well as many other things) are a by product of this 'world' and reality we live in. hence, using these 'progressive' ideas to save/change this world would bring to a huge contradiction.....dont know how to explain it but i'll try..
take for example CHAOS. a scientist decides to change (& control) the world by revealing an exact meaning of chaos and eventually discovers a simple mathematical formula for it-->everyone's happy. but having discovered the equation, chaos looses its meaning and is no longer chaos.we decide to give it another word and rather different deffinite meaning. but then, how can it be different when this scientist had started/done his survay by taking assumption (or 'facts') we already have known about CHAOS?! will this new finding change the world or eliminate the possibility of chaos existence?....and thousadsa of more questions could be rised. it is contradictory indeed

dont know if its a good example really, hope u can grasp what i mean.

why oh why u ppl dig into things like this?!u need to understand that the world is constantly changing, with every action of every single human being, as well as every natural process.
dont know if u've seen the butterfly effect, where a very good point has been made. that is, a very small unimportant action we've made could bring to a change in this world, or rather a change in the way we interpret and live in this world. hence, 'the world' is not really an entity on its own that we all see the same way....

blaah i wrote 2much

take care geezers




You completely misunderstood, I’m really sorry my friend, I hope i expressed myself clearly, you are of course allowed to disagree (and we are lucky that we can express ourselves freely ), but I don't think your post was completely fair towards what I wrote. I don't like that you are writing me rhetorical questions, just say what you mean , it’s much easier that way. I know from reading your other posts that you are nice guy, but it just sounded a little bit arrogant imho.
Cheers brother.

          "Love is a way of life"

(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna)
andrejcid
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  21
Posts :  355
Posted : May 5, 2005 22:09
lright green chanel?
sory that u got it that way mate...didnt mean to b arrogant, altho i could've maybe unintentionally left that impression. I appologise!i know u just tried to make clear what madman was saying.
I actually used your post to give a rather general response, not directed to u (nor anybody in particular) . it just happend to b u that said it...could have been anyone really. no offence for the 'rethorical question', i cant answer it my self either. thats probably because its not really the right question to ask, altho logically generated by a common statement & means of comparrison such as as 'step forward/backward...' etc.which is used very often, but its kind of meaningless and extremely vague. I find my self using it too....and then get confused with what i've said-->bang my head on the wall
again, no hard feelings, none of the above was meant to degenerate u nor your opinions.cant stop u from interpreting it as u will tho

neville bone, i absolutely understand and agree, there is a difference between developed and third world countries regarding many aspects. Ive travelled ALOT my self, more than 20 countries (show off arent I ) been 2 malta too, a beautiful place I spent most of my life living in an undeveloped, poor but beautiful country (Macedonia), now im in the UK and can c the differences almost clearly. they r not as great as i expected I assure u!
just think of them in terms of differences in lifestyle, tradition, national myths etc. rather than a 'worse/better' or spiritual/material.
afterall, we (humans) r constantly moaning, unsatisfied, 'looking for more' type of species. living in a developed country is what many ppl from the less-developed world dream of. similarly, many ppl from the 'west' idealise the 'quality life' in a rural undeveloped country. but materialism does not limit spiritual development. they correlate and as i said earlier feed on eachother. we all eventually get used to integrating the material&social surroundigs with our spiritual wellbeing.obviously comes along naturally. concentrating on spirituality as being an exlusive entity on its own, detcahed from the material, could only give u headaches and lead u to a nasty depression that'll provide u with all those time consuming ideas about saving this world from the brutal material evil..or whatever.will shorten the time one's got left for joy.

in relation to what u said bout the religious freaks in malta (or anywhere), i c it no different to this thread. its again that one person (or one possibility) that has the ultimate solution and thus being arrogant and patronising towards everybody else who dont support the mighty fairy, as she declares herself lol(but this has been posted quite a few times in this thread...im glad)
          Why u little !!!
The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  41
Posts :  1025
Posted : May 5, 2005 22:23
Quote:

On 2005-05-05 22:09, andrejcid wrote:
lright green chanel?
sory that u got it that way mate...didnt mean to b arrogant, altho i could've maybe unintentionally left that impression. I appologise!i know u just tried to make clear what madman was saying.
I actually used your post to give a rather general response, not directed to u (nor anybody in particular) . it just happend to b u that said it...could have been anyone really. no offence for the 'rethorical question', i cant answer it my self either. thats probably because its not really the right question to ask, altho logically generated by a common statement & means of comparrison such as as 'step forward/backward...' etc.which is used very often, but its kind of meaningless and extremely vague. I find my self using it too....and then get confused with what i've said-->bang my head on the wall
again, no hard feelings, none of the above was meant to degenerate u nor your opinions.cant stop u from interpreting it as u will tho




You made me smile with this post .
          "Love is a way of life"

(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna)
The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  41
Posts :  1025
Posted : May 5, 2005 22:32
Quote:

On 2005-05-05 12:44, Neville Bone wrote:

"How do you manage to keep that smile on your face eventhough you don't have anything in life?"

his answer was:
"I don't know how you westerns don't manage to keep a smile on your face eventhough you have everything"



Very nice example Neville
You can truly be the happiest person alive even if you live on the street; happiness and sadness are stats of mind.
          "Love is a way of life"

(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna)
Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 6, 2005 14:49
Andrejcid,
I'm glad you enjoyed your stay in Malta.I would definelty recommend Malta for a holiday but would never recommend it to anyone in the trance scene to move here.Yes I would recommend it to a retired couple or to a brit alcoholic though
Back to the subject,
As you well said "That us humans are never satisfied with what we have".Even if one compares Malta with the UK for instance,one would say that Malta is very laid back compared to the UK but you don't want to live here and understand the languuage cause this way you'll have to listen to things which you wouldn't like to listen to!

The funniest thing of all is that altough there are ppl.like me who live in the civilzed world and want to move to a laid back country because of the spirituality & for the pure hearts of the people,Many who live in 3rd world countries would like to come to us beacuse of our material life!!

But still dude,
In countries like India you learn many new things every single day and even those who live on the streets and who are dying can teach you something beacuse they have a big heart and they can appreciate whatever comes to them and the fact that they opened their eyes for another day is already enough for them.This is what I learnd in these 3rd world countries but although heaven is where I make it,it is not easy to practice my religion if I'm surrounded with ugly looking faces and stressed up material people and that is the reason why I want to say "Celo" to the civilized world and move to a more laid back country so to be with people like me who have the same valeus I do

As for the material things,I agree up to a certain extend.Although I'd love to live in India (and one day I will open a guest house in the himalays) but I am not ready yet cause to start with I'd like to move to a place,have kids,and have a job and the most imprtnat thing is to be surrounded by nature but I also dj and working on my 1st album too so I would like to be in a trance centre and infact my next holiday is gonna be capetown S.africa.and if I like it,Ill move there and maybe one day end up in India or in another African country for good!

Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  76
Posts :  2014
Posted : May 6, 2005 17:32
Simple fact is that the world is full of beauty, yet most people fail to see it. It's because of the economic culture we've created.
Nobody has time to view anything anymore and when they do go somewhere where the surroundings are nice, they're too busy with their work or their own appearance. Pity, really. I like to admire nature in its beauty, I take long biking trips and admire as much as I can...           "Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."

[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum]
mafkaroo


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  47
Posted : May 6, 2005 18:07
Personally I believe spirituality, a cliche or otherwise, is gained when people take time to look inside, and is a more introspective quality. I think when people ask themselves deep questions and challenge themselves, their perceptions and the nature of the reality in which they exist, they get a deeper understanding of the essence of life, or 'grow in spirituality'.

I believe these sorts of qualities can be gained when people suffer at any level. Perhaps its because they ask 'why is this happening to me' or maybe not.

I also believe that when people reduce or remove the amount of material things around them, there judgement becomes less clouded. Forget organised religion, but the religous leaders of history, jesus, bhudda etc, all went on pilgrimages to wild places without human contact, and fasted or equivalent on some sort of introspective mission to find a deeper truth.

I think our society is filled with consumerist junk, in the media, magazines, advertisements, and people are supposed to feel happy and content - but they don't - not here anyway.

The world is a beautiful place, full of beautiful people, but thats something we have to figure out for ourselves, because most people are oblivious to it.
DeSerT.StOrM


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  108
Posted : May 6, 2005 20:39
i do find it kinda funny that all of the other animals develop a natural equillibrium with their environment, so the cycle of life can continue on and on...but humans just keep destroying more and more of the earth (which is basically a biosphere life support system) because we feel that whatever we do is right and nothing can stand in the way of progress. i dont have the solution...but i think we can all agree that humans took a wrong turn at some point. We got too wrapped up in ourselves. we made life too fucking difficult. IT WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE THIS HARD. i think its all about simplicity...at least for me. very easy to be happy the simpler life is.
Neville Bone
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  12
Posts :  390
Posted : May 7, 2005 13:02
Quote:

On 2005-05-06 20:39, DeSerT.StOrM wrote:
we made life too fucking difficult. IT WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE THIS HARD.


------------------------------------------
Yeah it's ridiculous in a way eyyy?
Where we sent on earth to stress,fight,work,hate,moan,to be dipressed and all these bad things?
I doubt it very much.
It seems that in today's world if one does not work his ass off is doing something wrong!
What the f.....?
Trance Forum » » Forum  Trance - Saving this world!
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