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Pushed out from Stargate's Ibogas Tour
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Kaatisu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
309
Posted : Apr 12, 2004 03:37
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Quote:
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On 2004-04-11 13:10, goa-ganges wrote:
Let me tell what a Japanese friend of mine who is a party promoter told about this discussion:
....someone who thinks like Kenji...is a dark stain in a beautiful white clothe: it should be removed by any means possible. |
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I totally disagree with this statement and believe it is exactly the conflict-promoting mentalilty that Kenji Dub is protesting in his post. This attitude causes so much suffering in this world. This is the same thinking that causes WAR. Have you heard the old saying, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? Do you think it's true? I do, and I believe that ignoring the truth of this expression is why we have war. I know that the reality of the trance scene in Japan (and life in general) is complicated and "Two wrongs don't make a right" may sound too simplistic and idealistic, but I don't think so.
How can we promote a peaceful scene (and peace on Earth) through violence and oppression?
Kenji Dub's actions may be considered wrong by some, but dealing with such a problem without using the principles of PLUR (Peace, Love, Untiy, Respect) would also be wrong. I don't want to sound preachy, and I'm certainly not perfect, but if we don't strive for PLUR then what are we doing?
Kenji Dub, did your actions at the club and in your first post promote or hinder PLUR?
Did Stargate, through all aspects of putting on the party, including hosting it at Womb, serve to promote or hinder PLUR? |
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DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Apr 12, 2004 15:04
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Kaatisu war is a much more complicated thing so it would be better to leave it out of this discussion.
About which mentality is Kenji Dub protesting?The one that says that drugs are illegal?Then he should protest about it at his government first and then at a forum like this one.
Lets be realistic drugs are illegal and we all know that.From the moment that you begin an illegal action you have no right to protest about others that try to stop it (party security) or that try to protect themself from your illegal actions (party promoter and club owners).
If police busted Kenji on the road and found these substances on him would he then protest again about his privacy and about police actions?I dont think so.Then why he does so now?
We cannot promote a peaceful scene through violence and oppression BUT we cannot also promote a beautiful and peaceful scene by allowing drug usage.Drugs are bad and thats common knowledge.
If Kenji himself does not understand that he can do whatever he wants JUST in his house on his OWN responsibility then we cannot move to the next level and analyze the PLUR thing.
 Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Kaatisu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
309
Posted : Apr 13, 2004 03:14
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Actually, DETOX, while I'm lucky enough to have not experienced a full-blown war first-hand yet, it's clear to me that war, like any fight, is about doing something wrong because someone else has done something wrong. We then have a vicious circle of wrong-doing as violence promotes more violence. I feel it's appropriate to talk about war in the context of Kenji Dub's situation because I feel the roots of the problem are exactly the same.
DETOX, you asked, "About which mentality is Kenji Dub protesting?" I'm referring to the mentality that something that is seen as a problem by some "...should be removed by any means possible." It's the "any means" part that I totally diagree with. I believe the end cannot justify means. We cannot get to goodness though badness. To relate it to the metaphor used in the example, we shouldn't remove the stain by using a stain-remover that will damage the material or cause some other negative effect.
I'm not saying that Kenji Dub acted without wrong-doing. It seems from his story that he did not show respect for the rules of the club. To me, that does not promote PLUR. I'm not saying that drug use should necessarily be accepted, either. I'm saying how we deal with problems is the critical issue.
DETOX, you said "we cannot have a beautiful and peaceful scene by allowing drug usage." This statement may or may not be true. Actually, I can envision a beautiful and peaceful scene that does not or does include drugs. However, I cannot envision a peaceful scene that includes violence and oppression. Peace and violence are mutually exclusive -- on the level of this material world, they can't happen together.
You asked, DETOX, "If police busted Kenji on the road and found these substances on him would he then protest again about his privacy and about police actions?" I think he would, or at least he should (but again, how he would protest is critical). In that situation, I feel both Kenji Dub and the police (more correctly society-at-large which the police serve) would be doing wrong. Both would be acting in a way that doesn't promote PLUR. And again, if we're not promoting PLUR, then what are we doing? Unfortunately the justice system, as it is, simply creates more need for a justice system. By treating someone without PLUR, we are making a worse world, not a better world. When party security treat party-goers without PLUR (whether for using drugs or whatever), they are making a worse scene not a better one.
I'm certainly not Gandhi. And even Gandhi was not likely perfect in this way either (but he probably strived to be). I know I often act without PLUR. But what I hope is that my family, friends, and community will kindly (and with PLUR) point out when I'm not acting in a PLUR-promoting way so that I can improve and heal. And that does not mean invading my privacy, taking my stuff, forcefully moving me, throwing me in jail, or ending my life.
PLUR |
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goa-ganges
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
66
Posts :
594
Posted : Apr 22, 2004 11:56
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Well guys. Until now we've healthly (even if using harsh words, but it's a harsh matter) discussed about drugs in a sort of theorical way.
But reality is even harsher than words and ideas. I've just read in the Brazil section that last week a man died of overdose in the dance floor in one of the most traditional parties in Sao Paolo, Klatu Barakta Nikto. According to the guys there, this poor man just passed away in the party.
They don't tell what's going to happen, and some guys even tell about other casualties in parties and festivals. This is very sad. Life is our most valuable treasure and losing a life this way is very traumatic I think.
I am no saint, and won't tell that we should turn our lifestyle to having just water and lettuce. But coming to the point of wasting your life taking substances you know harmful...I wonder what sort of life you have this way.
That's why I told about bad parties in Brazil, and my admiration for the effort the japanese organizers make to keep this sort of problem away from their scene.
peace and love
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Juv
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
1
Posted : Apr 27, 2004 10:00
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Kenji, dont worry about this incident and take care next time. We all now that a good party is that one that everybody enjoys the good music and share space with beautiful people.
The guy who stole your stufff to enjoy with the colleagues propably will not being working on it for long. I'm sure that Stargates staff is reading this discution and will take care about realising another party at Club Womb, as well on contracting the security staff.
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Kenji Dub
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
170
Posted : May 1, 2004 21:28
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Detox, u completely missed the point!
Goa Ganges, I want to notice you that unfortunately people die of overdose in parties in all over the world and Brazil is not the only one... And I didnt read nothing about, I saw with my own eyes a young japanese guy die in Solstice's 2002 dance floor when Hallucinogen was playing and was the worst scene I ever seen in my life! I also saw a forigner girl falling down and losing her senses in gathering 2002. God bless that we could make she breath again...
About PLUR, Maybe I didnt promote the plur in the toilet but I didnt hinder it also.
I was not pushing drugs to nobody, and I was not showing in a stage ilegal actions saying - Do it!.
They invade my privacy, they stole my stuff and money, forcing me to move on...
I think I promote the plur in my actions every single day. And I dont think the system laws can be understanded like PLUR rules.
Kaatisu words:
"I can envision a beautiful and peaceful scene that does not or does include drugs. However, I cannot envision a peaceful scene that includes violence and oppression. Peace and violence are mutually exclusive -- on the level of this material world, they can't happen together. "
Completely Agree!
PLUR
"...Life must to be a preparation for transition to another dimension..."
Kenji Dub |
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Kenji Dub
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
170
Posted : May 10, 2004 04:07
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PLUS:
I forgot to mention that I went to Son Kite's after hours last day 4 in ark studio CUBE supported by Stargate.
And that's the way a after hours party should be!
That's the freedom I talk about! No more, or less ... Just perfect!
Also, The surprise live pa of the beside project of Son Kite guys just let me chocked how electro and deep trance mixture can sounds so great!
10x organizers for keep the FREEDOM inside our scene!
"...Life must to be a preparation for transition to another dimension..."
Kenji Dub |
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Psilocibino
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
243
Posted : Jul 10, 2004 18:52
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after reading this post i just want to tell you guys this...
shouldn't everyone have the right to take substances they want? you talk about the LAW here....well, 50 years ago the LAW in some countrys(like mine) said that people counld't think what they want, couldn't say what they want, couldn't speak what they want (in portugal we call this DITADURA, somethin like ditaturial government)!! are you guys going back to this?? man, F**k the law...if you think the law isn´t right, you don't have to follow it...just brake it!!
I, as a human beeing, have the right to take any substance i want, even more at a TRANCE PARTY, wich should be a place where FREEDOM has he's meening for real.... here in portugal, clubs also don't allow people doing drugs, but i don't see anyone protecting the clubs politics or offending people who do drugs there... WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT HERE aren't we?
::FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM:: 
P:L:U:R:
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krakho
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Jul 11, 2004 05:41
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..all this talk about no drugs in the party...
sorry am i missing something here....
..why is it called 'Psychedelic Trance' again?...
is it just me or is there a clue in there somewhere.....
i mean i know its down to personal choice and all but lets not deny its very essence here.......you older folks probabally shouldnt be criticising the younger ones for making all those mistakes you already made (and learned from)
drugs - parties...... well there's no smoke without fire..!! we all been busted at least once no?
dude... u are lucky ... Japan is strict and if you are there then u should know this... but Promoters come on... if your holding a party in a faschist place.... then try to highlight this point (maybe on the fliers...promo... somehing like 'NO DRUGS - Security Searches' )- or the like- to make people be extra cautious with their party things...
as for the outdoor freedom fun.... doesnt get much better... does it.... unlike the rest of the world... I found the strange absence of the 'chillum on the Dancefloor' most distressing in Japan... all that running of to your tent for a smoke..... real bummer (but the point here is... you DO run of to the tent for the smoke..... ya dont do it on the dance floor .....'just in case" )!!!!  .......When in Rome do as the Romans do (just dont become a Roman  ) |
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