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Pushed out from Stargate's Ibogas Tour
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Old Skool
Started Topics :
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48
Posted : Apr 7, 2004 04:40
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By the way this is Kenji's phrase about bathroom:
Minutes later, I go to the toilet with my friend to take something, taking care, locking the door, private time...
So, we were surprised with another STAFF spying us by the top of the toilet wood wall.
If you see two guys going in the same door of the toilet and locking the door that is the most suspicious action that could be ever taken in a trance party. No doubt the security looked in. Taking a pill/tab with a friend in a bathroom god. Or were you trying to draw a line? You already agreed that smoking in a bathroom is stupid.
Taking a shit by yourself and the girls bathroom is totally different story. |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
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356
Posted : Apr 7, 2004 09:50
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Just to clear things up for my point of view, I was never saying Kenji is stupid as a person. In fact I'm sure that if I met him I'd like him a alot and we would get along great. I just feel his actions were irresponsible given the situation he was in and must admit I have a hard time understanding why he was so upset at something that seems so obvious to me.
If he had been alone in the bathroom stall, I would totally agree that, without any other motive, the security's actions were over the line. However he said himself he went in there with a friend, and anyone with a brain knows that when more than one guy goes into a toilet stall, going to the bathroom is 99 times out of a 100 not what is going on in there. The guards can also clearly check under the stall doors to see how many people are in there before they start watching from above too. Yes it sucks he was caught, but, at least to me, it is no surprise what so ever.
Having been part of the scene in Japan back in the free and clear days, I can completely understand his disappointment at how things have changed. However living in the US where every single person entering gets patted down and checked for drugs, weapons, etc, is the norm for a lot of clubs, I can't help but think that, even in this current state, the Japan scene has it easy compared to a lot of places.
I actually admire Kenji's stance on freedom and music and all, but I guess my 30 years on this Earth have made me practical if nothing else. If I want a totally free musical environment, I will pick an appropirate event somewhere out of sight, in the woods, etc. If I go to a club I will follow club rules and if I decide to break some of those rules, I will be accountable for my actions. Its a nice idea to ignore the rules and go for the free goa vibe even in a club, but, especially in a country like Japan, who aren't going to change the way things are so, as they say "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". But that's just me and how I see things.
 New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Apr 7, 2004 15:38
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and to add what I think is the most important issue here-
Kenji, please be more careful. I hope from this experience you have learned that reguardless of what may be right or wrong, clubs can and will violate your rights. Please be safe in the future, the last thing I want to happen is for you to go to jail, brother. THAT is a place with no freedom. Japan is a strict country with drug related crimes, and I don't want to see a peaceful person like you (or anyone else) go to jailfor something like this.
Please be careful Kenji and everyone else- have fun, and stay safe.
and one tip- if you do decide to bring drugs with you, at least stash it really good, like in you underwear, because there have been many random searches on the street these days. DONT CARRY STUFF WITH YOU IN PUBLIC- ESPECIALLY IN EASILY ACCESSIBLE PLACES!!!
Peace to all,
spliffnik |
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Katapult
Started Topics :
0
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27
Posted : Apr 8, 2004 05:56
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I think the last few posts have been right on and I would like to apologize for any name calling earlier. This is a touchy subject and my emotions took over instead of reasonable replies. I would like to comment on one of spliffnik's thoughts. You said that if you asked anybody about their privacy in the stalls they would say that looking over the top is a violation of their privacy. You are right but with an exception. Being in Japan, you need to also except some cultural differences. Don't get me wrong here, you go into the girl's bathroom there and you will hear "sukebe" screamed out at you, but there are a lot of cultural differences that you sort of need to expect. For example, I was pissing in a urinal over there and this little old lady comes in without saying a word and just starts cleaning the stall next to me. I have also been in bathrooms where there is one door to the outside, a urinal and a toilet. I was standing at the urinal and a woman just walks past me and sits down. Things are just a bit different than what we are used to and just wanted to throw that out for something to think about.
PAR-2 Productions - PAR2, Jikkenteki, Katapult www.par-2.com |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Apr 9, 2004 11:43
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hehe the old woman thing cleaning right next to you has happened to me before too- pretty funny I must say 
but its cool I am glad things are chilling out, we all want the best for the dancers and the organizers- Lets pray for a fun and safe year in the trance scene here in Tokyo (and the rest of the world!)
Boom to all!
spliffnik |
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Old Skool
Started Topics :
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48
Posted : Apr 9, 2004 15:25
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Kenji
One last thing to you. If you really love trance
and think its a valuable existence for you in life, protect it. And learn and be good in what you do, very good. Show people how you could do things very good and inspire them.
To be good you have to be cautious every minute and day. Then your good. If you get caught even ONCE your not good. So be good at what you do and teach the younger how to be good. Thats how we did things 12 year ago.
Good Luck |
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Kenji Dub
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
170
Posted : Apr 9, 2004 19:52
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Seems like the discussion get the right way now...
I know the fact that I went with my boyfriend to the same toilet cabin is suspicious even I being gay. I agree that was my mistake. But this is not the point here right? I just surprised bcause after years going to club parties and seeing many people doing like the same way and security givin a shit about it, is natural that people start to be not so carefully...
But like I told before, was a trauma. From now I will be MORE carefull than I always did.
And doenst matter what I was trying to take in the toilet bcause this is my business and privacy still running here...he he
I think thats why they couldnt call the cops! Yes, Privacy invasion is a crime also.
10x people for make this topic clear and without offenses!
I wish can met you all in future parties!
Freedom, Respect n Peace!
"...Life must to be a preparation for transition to another dimension..."
Kenji Dub |
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DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Apr 10, 2004 02:22
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Kenji i will try to make my self as clear as possible.
First of all the possesion of drugs is a crime like you already know.I think we both aggree on this one.
If you were at your home you should feel free to act as you like on your own responsibility BUT when you go into a club for a party then you have no absolutely right to use drugs even in the toilet because of many reasons.If the cops busted the party you would probably throw the drugs on the floor and the organisers and the place owners would be accused for YOUR DRUGS,do you think thats fair?If something happened to you because of overdose of drugs then the organisers and the club owners would also be accused because of YOUR ACTIONS,do you think thats fair also?
And dont tell me that you wouldnt either throw your drugs on the floor and that there is no possibility that something would happen to you because of drugs because your are a grown up person and stuff like that cause we all know whats going on at parties.I am a promoter in my country and i know very good what is going on at parties.
So at this moment you are accusing the security of the party for searching you and throwing you out of the event because you were holding and using drugs?
How dare you accuse these people for 'invading your privacy' when you break all the laws and rules of the country,the party and the club place when you enter THEIR PROPERTY possesing and using illegal substances?
How dare you accusing them when from the beggining you dont respect the guidelines that the promoters of the party set?
What do you thing is a more serious crime?Possesion of drugs or invasion of privacy?
Do you understand that from the moment that you entered the club you entered a PRIVATE PROPERTY?This doesnt mean that the promoters and the security have the right to do whatever they want with you just because you entered their property BUT when you are acting illegal into their property they have every right to search you,or would you prefer them to call the police and search you?Would you feel better then?
If the guys throwed you out of the party with no reason then you would have every right to complain and even sue then and report them to the police.
But accusing them for doing the right thing is at least funny,cause throwing you out of the party was indeed the right thing to do at this occasion.
If you think that Stargate and the club place and its security has done something wrong then visit your near police station,tell them the whole story and see what they think about it.....
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Apr 10, 2004 06:26
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have you read all the other posts at all??? All you said has been covered, Kenji realizes he needs to be more careful, he is getting over the mistakes he made and accepted his actions.
So quit wasting our time, and start reading the posts before you type your own reply. If you did read them, I would be very surprised, since your post really has no value at this time, not to mention you are attacking someone for a mistake they have taken responsibility for! Wasn't that you in another thread who said 'a man who accepts his mistakes is a man who deserves my respect?' Well start showing some respect for this man!!!
-bOOm-
spliffnik |
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kowens
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
218
Posted : Apr 10, 2004 12:11
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Good to see a discussion and understand got going in this thread..lets hope for a safe and yet psychedelic year in tokyo..as spliff man pointed out read the other threads..and spliff keep the San Fran men comin..peace
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DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Apr 10, 2004 15:26
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KENJI DUB said in his latest post 'And doenst matter what I was trying to take in the toilet bcause this is my business and privacy still running here...he he '
SPLIFFNIK do you think that these words belong to a man that has understand and accepted his mistake?
I dont think so at all,so next time you comment about my replies then make sure that YOU have read all the posts before.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
663
Posted : Apr 11, 2004 07:25
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Hehe, thats pretty funny, sorry Detox if I offended you I dont want to start a bickering sesson. The way I see Kenjis stance he HAS learned from his mistakes and accepted he was at least wrong in making assumptions if not just bad decision making. The quote you took says to me that he still thinks it is bullshit that you have no privacy in a bathroom stall.
But if he has not realized that going into astall with another person is not stupid, then you may be right he has not really accepted his mistakes.
I just thought for the most part the matter was peacefully settled in the end and for a single sentence you went off on him excessively.
But who knows what he is thinking, I jsut take this post as a good reminder that you always can be more careful in clubs should you be doing anything unlawful.
Cant wait for the outdoor season! Then we wont have this kind of problems, as we find ourselves relatively freed from the framework of the system.
And Kowens, the SF guys will keep coming! have you seen the Penta post yet? Coming soon my friend! get in touch with me if you go.
-bOOm-
spliffnik |
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goa-ganges
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
66
Posts :
594
Posted : Apr 11, 2004 13:10
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Let me tell what a Japanese friend of mine who is a party promoter told about this discussion:
He throws a party for a crowd of 2000 people every two months. For every party he has to pay in ADVANCE 600,000 yenes (for the ones outside Japan, it makes about 60,000 dollars) just for renting the club. It seems unbelievable, but it is the real price. To this value you have to add the japanese prices of their exquisite fliers, local DJs, fluo deco and VJs. If he books any artist from abroad (as he always does), the total price for this party goes around 1 million yenes. In the contract he signs with the club, it is clear he will responsible for any kind of trouble the crowd or the party crew might bring to the club. And if anything serious happens, he will legally face the law.
So, in the fliers he makes it clear in Japanese and English "we will not bear any kind of illegal acts in the party, and the ones who may cause any disturb will be taken away from the party, be IDed and will be banned forever from our party and any event that we may be associated with. NO DRUGS".
I'm sure anyone has seens this sort of warning before in any Japanese flier.
And in a very Japanese style he told me that someone who thinks like Kenji (it is trance....so everything is allowed - even if it is illegal and might bring problems to the party, the rest of the crowd and the scene itself...)
....is a dark stain in a beautiful white clothe: it should be removed by any means possible...
Peace and Love. |
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DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Apr 11, 2004 16:16
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Tottally aggree with the statement that the friend promoter of Goa Ganges did in the end.
Spliffnick no problem 
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Kaatisu
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
309
Posted : Apr 12, 2004 02:01
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goa-ganges, your point that event organizers assume a lot of responsibility - financial and otherwise - is important. However, I need to correct your typo (or really bad math skills - hehe):
600,000 Yen is worth a bit less than US$6,000, NOT $60,000.
To me, still a fair chunck of money to risk. |
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