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playing tracks at extreme stretched bpms
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 19:56
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i think tracks are written at a certain bpm for a good reason... ive been hearing tracks that are composed at 140bpm being played at 147-148 sometimes... why???
please understand that doing so (usually more pitch up then pitch down) is terrible... most of the tracks composed at a certain bpm are that way because they sounds best at that bpm. i think pitching it more then +3bpms will effectively cancel whatever magic is in the track... things like groove and space are totally lost..... also there is a horrible distortion that comes with this pitching...
to the people doing this.... please think about not doing it  be nice to the music...
  "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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jou*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 20:10
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talking about the opposite
funny thing...i went to this after party the other day... some kid was spinning some reg full on tracks (take eskimo, sesto sento, X Noize) at around 120. I couldn't get used to listening to them like that since i knew those trax by heart....Extremely awkward...or was it the alcohol?
Is there a general rule for how much decreasing or increasing? Because I've indeed heard some messed up tunes with increased bpm... just nerve racking and not danceable or nice at all.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory. |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 20:18
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well, ms. jou* - i think more then 3+- bpms either way would be my limit... i dont know why people do more then that... i think sometimes they even pitch up 5 whole bpms.... in my opinion it kills the track. (but it just my opinion)
about playing eskimo tracks at 120...... yikes, is all i have to say.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 20:30
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Yes Gadi  Add that one to the Psy Trance Constitution. 1st Amendment +- 3 BPM in mixes |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 20:54
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Well... you also have to pay attention to flow. You'd be pretty pissed if someone was playing 135 prog and the next dj after him started playing 150 dark stuff right??
Why not start slow and ease your way up? And master tempo is your friend.
Usually you don't have to worry too much about too many people doing that, but you also have to remember that you have to beatmatch too... I have written tracks that are at 141 but sometimes depending on the circumstances get played at whatever bpm is neccesary. I've got tracks at 150 that need to be slowed down sometimes to be played with other tunes... Not everyone writes all of their tracks at the same bpm... Adds to variety.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 21:12
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yes but reverend... why did u compose your track at 150 bpm? dont u want it to be played fast? otherwise you wouldve worked at 140bpm, no? ofcourse im talking about beatmatching - thats a given to me whenver discussing a dj set (i dont consider people who dont beatmatch dj's, no matter how famous they are)
all im saying is why not choose a progression to the higher or lower bpm goal and not a pitch shift from unrelated bpms in order to fit to the previous.
get my drift?
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 21:36
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Cool thread..
Well, personally, i have a really bad memory, and when i mix, i don't have a list of tracks that im going to play written down on a paper with there current bpm count.. That means that i use my instincts when reaching for that next CD durring my sets. Sometimes i get caught up in weird situations, where i don't have much time to beatmatch and find the tempo, so i just play "Track 1" from the first CD i pull out of my case, not realising the huge bpm difference.. (this doesn't happen very often, but i've mixed tracks at +/- 3.5% .. It does most of the time sound wierd, but there are tracks that still sound "ok" when shifted as such. There are other cases when you just know two tracks have simular sounds and would work really well together, but there is a big tempo difference.. My curiosity sometimes wins and i try it out.. hehe..
So basically, unless you prepare tracklists or have a really good memory, it can happen i guess to be in a situation where there might be a 5 bpm difference.. now, with that said, hearing some skazi at 120 bpm isn't what i was talking about.. lol..
"VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 21:56
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I agree, +- 3 bpm is very reasonable. I don't like to pitch tracks, I like to play tracks as they are.
If I'm playing something at 140 bpm and want to play other track at 148 bpm I will possibly put two other tracks between them.
The less pitch I use the more confident I feel.
Anyway I'm not a professional DJ so...
Respect!
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...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
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...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 31, 2005 23:45
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i think +-3.5 is a good standard to work in but as many have said before and many will say in the future the last thing that a DJ needs are strict rules that can inhibit creativity. . .guidelines are very helpful but in order to be unique and get ppl to dance in a new way, to present the music in an original fashion, i think that rules should be bent brokenand beat to a pulp.
ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet. |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 01:23
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I personally hate the master tempo. You can hear a slight double kick and the track time streches or compresses.
I think we should not set this rules, but the moment and sound dictates. I try always to keep my mixing range +_3%, sometime you need a lil more push or to hit the breaks on a track. It also depends on the place you play. I played Penta in Montreal with the Pitch @ 0 and they could not follow... I have to set it @ -3% and then ppl started bouncing. It is all about the moment and the place. Everytime I set any rules to myself, I ended up breaking them.
IMHO and from experience.... If the DJ B4 is doing a good job and the dancefloor is doofing, then mix your track or set it to similar BPMs or a tad slower if you are starting a completely new story. Then build it from there. Also play music inline with the music you hear b4 you or something totally different if you are starting a new story. But as I said rules are meant to be broken. I think the moment and space dictates the mixing and it is the DJs ability to sync to the dancefloor energy that makes a good set. |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 01:34
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Actually... the reason why I composed a track at 150 was specifically to show a UK hard house dj that psytrance can be made at 150 and still be as danceable as hard dance was to him...
However in the context of the rest of my music, I have other tracks that are slower than that and just as much if not more powerful than that particular one. If I followed the model of limited pitch adjustment, that track would always be one of the last tracks I would play in a set, which would really screw with the flow of my set in that particular case. The speed of a track doesn't neccesarily dictate it's intensity.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes I will play it at it's original bpm, but it's all in the context of the situation. Now, I probably wouldn't be as ready to pitch up or down the track if there weren't the Pioneer master tempo thing where the tempo is altered but the not the pitch. That prevents the sound issue greatly...
Another reason why I am opposed to this is because I like retaining the energy of the previous dj before me. Sometimes, depending on the dj before me, I might beatmatch out of the previous guy and keep the energy flowing right into my set, instead of stopping the dancers and starting again. There was one situation that bugged me where there was a dj who was playing some pretty nasty stuff toward the end of their set at about 148bpm, the next guy who gets on drops the bpm to 142 and proceeds to start out minimal and techy. I watched the crowd go from going wild, to watching many people leave the dancefloor.
The real key to avoiding most of these issues is to make sure that whoever is creating the lineup has an idea of how fast each person plays and groups that accordingly with each dj. This however can go completely out the window when dealing with multiple genres of dance music... I've come on after house and breaks djs and had to severely pitch my stuff down so I could ease people into the madness. If I had just come in even at 140 bpm, that would have disrupted the flow of energy from the guy before me to me...
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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DJSarasin
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 12:01
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acidonacid
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 16:12
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I prefer the stantar bpm of a track but some times
depence the time maybe little faster or slower was good also for me..
Open your mind... |
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arrya
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 22:21
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this is something that has struck me time and time again at parties, and i've always wondered about it ..
very often, you will find tracks being pitche dup in excess of 3-4 bpm, to the extent where they sound very little like the original, and lose their flow and direction .. its like a little stream flowing too fast for its own good ...
still though, sometimes you have tracks that have a power that is unusual for their bpm - say 144 or so, and deserve entirely to be played in the 148 range with some of the screaming tracks .. and when that is done right, it can sound masterful !!
paagal power .. |
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phobium
Phobium
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Posted : Sep 1, 2005 22:43
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I never play a track at - when I dj, it always sound wrong to me, especially the hihats and such ... they just get weird. Pitching up however is a different matter, but not too much, or the bass will sound a bit silly. Never really checked how much + I give some tracks though. But from 140 to 148, that's a bit far.
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