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Performance standards light vs dark
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 22:30
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oh hell... here we go...
1) the history of psychedelic trance is such that music was spread digitally via DAT mafia's and such- much like todays downloading...
really big popular stuff made it to vinyl. dj's from other styles occasionally played psychedelic trance mixed in with their stuff. it was all the rage in the mid nineties...
when i moved to san francisco there were less than a dozen dj's - all playing DATS: Douglas and Tim Smith, Cyril Kollock, Brad Tumbleweed... Goa Gil and Olli Wisdom came through town...both playing DATS...
all the different styles were represented back then. nobody split hairs. if you said you liked psychedelic trance you liked it all and weren't a BITCH like most of us are today being so fucking PICKY about what "styles" we like etc...
I got one thing to say to PANSY-ASSED-CANDY-BITCHES who only like one "style" and don't like other "styles"
GET a LIFE!!!!!!!!!
a GREAT artist is a genius and can do ANYTHING they want to so keep the little mental boxes off of them...
A GREAT artist can do ANY styles at the drop of a hat because STYLE is pure mimicry...
I like the creations of individual artists and some more than others etc...
NO style is wrong- if you don't like what you've heard coming out of a style then you haven't heard it done right. period.
Yes I'm talking to YOU. Got it? Thanks!
ok....
so
2)people who aren't super picky or knowledgable about psytrance and djing and mixing skills and such will often notice the vibe of the party and the way everyone else seems to be reacting to the music.
Lets not forget that the community aspect is THE point. without the community aspect we have another lame-assed commodity market, and a not very successfull one at that.
COMMUNITY.
that is THE point.
so this brings all my points together in ONE!!!
we as a community had better learn to look past our partisan bullshit and see the common thread or we are fucking DOOMED as a scene!!!!
DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR????!!!!
Thank YOU. |
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Mistress of Evil
Mistress Of Evil Records
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
961
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 22:38
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yeeeeee haaaaw, no more nitpicking and whining lets dance!
yay for community and unity 
peace
megan
 Bringing Dreams to Life!
www.encantadaproductions.com |
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 22:58
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this isnt about style or light vs dark. its about being a good performer. Personal taste is subjective, but there can be a stait up technical rational of, is he/she doing a good job or not
and IMO dark acts fail that technical rational more often than full on acts.
Doesnt mean the reverse isnt true. Doesnt mean one style is better than another. I like alot of dark just as much as light. Everything in its proper time and place is how i like to think.
but then as a performer why try to do a good job if if doesnt matter? If there is no appreciation of it.
why do we care so much if such and such an act is a good one or not? Why reviews of events than? or mix cds or demos?
If its that simple as to just go and dance, and be happy anyone could go and put in a cd and put on track number XYZ
Why have the equipment we use at our disposal?
Why not a single cd discman hooked up to the amps. Why even need a mixer? Why use pioneer cdjs? Why dont we all save our money and buy low end equipment. We can still play good music that way. Granted you cant mix, or do much anything else but hey, i guess thats not the important part anyways
talent and skill dont matter it would seem. As long as you have a good collection of music, thats all you need in this scene
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 23:12
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eh- i was just using your question as an opportunity to bitch about what i feel is the biggest problem in the scene: Partisan Bullshit...
to directly answer your question:
NO i don't think "full-on" artists are held to ANY different standards than "dark" artists or DJ's or whatever...
If you are specifically referring to Goa Gil then I make an exception there and if you want to understand why that exception is there we can talk till the cows come home about why people who've been doing this since the dawn of the scene can get away with what they do...
I think the music does matter. I would like to direct the attention away from stylistic morality and redirect it towards the specific qualities of the specific artist you are specifically concerned about.
I don't think that "camps" matter.
I don't think there are SIDES.
I think each artist has to represent themself and what their interpretation of psychedelic trance is.
I don't think your question means anything unless you are specific- Paradigm.
I disagree with the premise of your question and do not think that this is the case.
(that "dark" artists or dj's are held to lower technical standards...)
However, I do notice a wide variety of production standards among new and old producers of all styles.
I takes time to get it right.
one thing I do think you might agree with is that often times what is percieved as a "flaw" in production becomes associated with a "stylistic" element.
In other words: "oh no, its not messed up, its SUPPOSED to be that way..."
when the Who first used feedback (guitar amp feedback) on their record, the record execs thought it was a mistake. It was intentional.
As much as You and I might like to wish small kicks and boring basslines away, we can't. they are accepted as stylistic elements to some degree...
sigh....
anyway- i wanted to make a bigger point while i have all you PARTISAN motherfuckers here in one place.
I wanted to say that we as a community had better learn to look past our partisan bullshit and see the common thread or we are fucking DOOMED as a scene!!!! |
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 23:40
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Though Gil is in my thoughts of writting this. It isnt soley at him, and i realize that he is his own catagory.
and do to that unique nature, nothing really applies to him. He does multiple styles and they all get treated the same way so....
I agree forget the partisan shit, forget light vs dark, its nice to be able to get a full course meal of all the psychedelic musical treats at an event.
Im actually really looking fwd to Synthesis tonight because of this. Its been a while since ive seen an event that has prog dj's, full on djs' a tech trance act, dark dj's, This is a model that i think more events need to follow
anyways, i dont think i can add anything more constructive to this debate. Ive said my piece, its been discussed,
my 2 cents are on the table |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 23:42
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oh hell... here we go...
1) the history of psychedelic trance is such that music was spread digitally via DAT mafia's and such- much like todays downloading...
really big popular stuff made it to vinyl. dj's from other styles occasionally played psychedelic trance mixed in with their stuff. it was all the rage in the mid nineties...
when i moved to san francisco there were less than a dozen dj's - all playing DATS: Douglas and Tim Smith, Cyril Kollock, Brad Tumbleweed... Goa Gil and Olli Wisdom came through town...both playing DATS...
> The past is the past and circumstances were different. Technology did not exist @ the time to do what we do now. I defenitelly respect everyone who started this revolution and I am thankful. I still love that feeling in the past and tried to translated to the ppl I met.
all the different styles were represented back then. nobody split hairs. if you said you liked psychedelic trance you liked it all and weren't a BITCH like most of us are today being so fucking PICKY about what "styles" we like etc...
> I absolutely agree with you here. But i have always played night music and this is the part of the experience I really love and it is inscribed within my soul. Now, I will travel to Mexico to see Son Kite, or I will book DJs that play good music whatever the style. We all complement each other. There is always something to learn.
I got one thing to say to PANSY-ASSED-CANDY-BITCHES who only like one "style" and don't like other "styles"
GET a LIFE!!!!!!!!!
> I like it all. I am open to all kinds of experiences. But, if we excell in some direction and we suck in other, why not become the best in what we excell. I mean I still go to all kinds of experiences. I go to house parties, orchestral, jazz, rock, psy, techno, reggae, visit art exhibitions, intallations, read about architechture, sports.... It is important to live a multidimensional live. But, hey there are ppl who want to concentrate in their microworld... who am I to tell them they are wrong? I can provide my perspective, as many other provide theirs to me... and I almost always (because sometimes I am a proud hardheaded asshole or too introvertive to enjoy myself) try to sponge everything and make it part of myself.
a GREAT artist is a genius and can do ANYTHING they want to so keep the little mental boxes off of them...
A GREAT artist can do ANY styles at the drop of a hat because STYLE is pure mimicry...
I like the creations of individual artists and some more than others etc...
NO style is wrong- if you don't like what you've heard coming out of a style then you haven't heard it done right. period.
Yes I'm talking to YOU. Got it? Thanks!
> I agree with this. But I have been guilty of this many times. Maybe it is a clear sign of ignorance and I am trying always to get rid of this PANSY-ASSED-CANDY-BITCH part of me.
ok....
so
2)people who aren't super picky or knowledgable about psytrance and djing and mixing skills and such will often notice the vibe of the party and the way everyone else seems to be reacting to the music.
Lets not forget that the community aspect is THE point. without the community aspect we have another lame-assed commodity market, and a not very successfull one at that.
COMMUNITY.
that is THE point.
so this brings all my points together in ONE!!!
we as a community had better learn to look past our partisan bullshit and see the common thread or we are fucking DOOMED as a scene!!!!
DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR????!!!!
> This is defenitelly true. But am I not tempted to do a dark only party he hen just because I am so blown away by what i have experience on that side of the world 
Thank YOU.
> You are welcome |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 00:18
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Quote:
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NO style is wrong- if you don't like what you've heard coming out of a style then you haven't heard it done right. period.
Yes I'm talking to YOU. Got it? Thanks!
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Im sorry, who were you talking to exactly? or were you just generalizing...
http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 00:19
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ohmy
Fractal Cowboys
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
285
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 00:25
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i mean, there are so much bigger problems than beat matching.
How about conservative sexual values? I hear a lot of complaints about this.
Or too much black clothing. . .
or, oohhh, living in the United States. i mean really, we need to take it to the red states. a trainwreck dropped on an untouched midwestern mind might do just the trick.
i think music that is by trippers, for trippers, is often my favorite. doesn't have to be light or dark (i actually like stuff that makes me go further, and not inward) just trippy. with spirit.
I mean, we, who write "dark" music could write an equally prepostorous strand about why is it that people that write Lite music get away with using all the presets that synthesizers come with? its a loaded, silly question. we can do better. if not, lets start trance U. I have a required reading list ready.
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 01:16
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-16 00:25, ohmy wrote:
we can do better. if not, lets start trance U. I have a required reading list ready.
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I'd like to see some books.
..it's just another party.. |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 01:51
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just for the record...
I was trying to hear those tracks based on how I would play them or mix them. NOT to slam them.
I listen to every nuance when I do this and I think my thoughts and my thought process might offended some people. So thats why im writing this now. If I offended Im sorry. I like to point out the details when I hear a track before I play it and I think I got a little to graphic when I was describing the sounds I was hearing.
I also realize that Im not helping this whole dividing of the styles or sounds by doing so. So I will in the future keep my opinions about what sounds I like or dislike to myself.
BOOMSHAKALAKA
http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
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DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
70
Posts :
2299
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 02:06
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-16 01:51, David(KIVA) wrote:
I also realize that Im not helping this whole dividing of the styles or sounds by doing so. So I will in the future keep my opinions about what sounds I like or dislike to myself.
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Dark stuff has a lot of niches and subgenres, not everything sounds like Sounds of Madness.
check out Swedish forest music - Derango, Steptime, Kluster, Danish funk like Vicious Spiral and Alrune, Russian psy like Transdriver and Humanoid, Neuron Compost from Oz, Double REL from Israel, Fractal Cowboys from SF, etc. All very psychedelic in very different ways, not necessarily aggressive at all.
..it's just another party.. |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Apr 16, 2005 02:32
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i think there are artists we all know and some of us still love who have a certain place in history they have created for themselves.
We the newcomers can have our 'standards' and such imported from our various life-paths. (coming from a techno dj background, or a classical musical background, or whatever...) we can apply them, however we must acknowledge the history. We don't have to like it or be into it but we understand that this is where our current culture comes from, at least partially...
I like beatmatched dj sets, i like long mixes, sure all of that is great. The thing about psychedelic trance is the TRACKS- individual unique journeys with their own stories etc... some of which we may feel are masterpieces.
I like tracks that make me feel like a master created them- like someone who really knew what they were doing did them. This makes me hot.
SOme other people really like tracks that make them feel fresh and new and excited and stuff...
Other people like things for other reasons etc...
Maybe i'm just being wishfull here but it would be great to be able to have dialogue about individual tracks or sets without needlessly invoking these cartoons of Dark or Light... I'm not so sure these are even the real boundaries of trance if they ever were...
I remember when the debate was "minimal" vs "full-on" in terms of minimal composition or thick composition. the minimal was techier and focused on "psychedelic" sounds but the "full-on" melodic or goa trance was firmly entrenched as THE psychedelic music. It was fast, furious, and spiritual as hell...
The minimal was "cool" etc...
anyway- these and other imaginary boundaries like "dark" and "light" fade away as they are silly and besides the point.
When we all come together in the fractal formation there will be full color representation. Nothing will be excluded. If you (general you as in "one") have a problem with anything specifically- best to get over it now:)
the alternative is to segment into ten million microscenes with no influence on this tumultous planet as we spread ourselves too thin.
This is a pathetic petty vision and we are capable of much more...
Commodity fetish aside- TRANCE ISLAND
Trance culture, trance exchange programs, alternative trancer travel agencies, hostels, artist-coops, etc.... |
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