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Performance standards light vs dark
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rich
IsraTrance Full Member
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103
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2184
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 04:13
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Wow. This thread could have devolved into trash talking and taste bashing but instead you guys have kept it professional and informative.
You all made some very enlightening points and that goes to show the love for the spirit of the music is there above all else.
(Let's not digress too much into gear talk though...) |
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M.o.E.
Amanda
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
88
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 05:19
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In my opinion PSYCHEDELIC TRANCE dj's should be judged by whether they are able to drive the dancefloor into an estatic state.....how ever they achieve this is up to them.....
It's not really a 'dark' or 'light' issue.......djs from all styles have helped me achieve this state..........some of them beatmatch, some do not......
a.
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PsyCore
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
499
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 07:29
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...and if the DJ t-wrecks the same track twice?
I think Paradigm and I are talking about the same person....
Double standards (or triple standards for that matter) are rather useless. I am not a DJ myself, and do not have a super extensive collection of psytrance in my posession, but I do have close to a decade of classical music training (I used to play brass)... enough so that I can tell when something belongs, and when something doesnt.
This does not mean I am going to stop dancing when ugliness happens. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth, and wait for the good stuff.
It makes the good stuff THAT much better when it finally comes.
Some people dance just because they can (and noone minds that they do), not necessarily because the DJ is amazing, but because they are off in their own little world. Which is fine. It is just expected of a DJ or artist to make the dancer's world that much more beautiful/colorful.
After all, what is a performer without an audience? |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
178
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 10:37
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hahahahhahahaha
again this dark vs light bulls....t!!!!!
paradigm you are hilarious!!!!! |
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mubali
Mubali
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71
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2219
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 10:40
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In the end everyone's standards are different and cannot be really held to a general criteria. There are way too many possibilities with this music for us to allow ourselves to limit what is considered good or not. What may not be good to you might be great to someone else. In the end as a dj you are trying to spread what you think is good to people and the ones that agree with you will follow your vibe, the ones who do not agree with your vision will find their own vision. This is not dividing the scene but providing options. As long as you can hold a dancefloor and create a journey for the dancers, you are doing what you are supposed to. I have a few old disco compilations from the 70's and it was a continuous mix of tracks, not neccesarily beatmatched per se, but the tracks flowed well together and still told a story.
 An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
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178
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 10:43
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should go catch the grapes of wrath or jahbo performances and then talk about low mixing standards in dark trance..
when techno ruled in ur country there were djs mixing with 3 or 4 turntables,, why??? because of their superhuman mixing skills?? no.. just because the tracks were just a kick and some other geeky noise. same with progressive, its a lot easier to beatmatch and mix those tunes, than dark twisted trance, so what u got maybe you got many dark djs there thats suck, or maybe u just dont like dark music , as i can see from previous posts. so why keep going to those events???? stick to ur thing (whatever that is) |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 16:08
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I have mixed techno and acid techno for 5 years, parallel to psy trance. Techno music is just a DJ tool. The real music is made by the DJ himself. THen it get layered and mixed. Then it is not just beats. I have heard mixes by Pascal Feos or Sven Vath + Many many more, which make the music flow in parts and sound very interesting. My only issue with techno is that the production sound very dirty.
I have CDJs 100s and to keep tracks beatmatch you have to correct them constantly, but it is not impossible to keep tracks together for more than 3 minutes. It requires extra concentration.
I personally like music beatmatched. There is higher continuity and a better energy buildup. FOr me it is a must to get off the nut! When someone tells me they do not want to mix the tracks, they either do not have the gift or they do not try hard enough. I have a problem when a performer does not strive for perfection and provides an average experience. Because, I personally know that the experience could be much more than what I am hearing... even if I am trippin' 
I do understand everybody's standard are different, but I personally have very high standards even for myself. Even if ppl tell me I mix a rocking set, I know it can be much better. So I am always pursuing perfection to get the best out of me, because I know when I communicate the message perfectly to the dancefloor, then ppl can fly and anything can happen It is my duty to take every single one person in the dancefloor into hyperspace, anything less is not worth it.
BOM! |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 19:47
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so HOW hard is it to mix the old or what some people call new dark and twisted sound? Im curious.. I dont have very much dark or any for that matter.. It cant be that difficult? It cant be harder then trying to mix old goa trance can it?
who wants to give me some labels that release this music so i can hear for myself http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 20:36
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Almost anything Kindzadza does is rather difficult to mix. In general a lot of Russian music has little stop and starts that tend to be different than what you are used to, same thing with a lot of Danish music.
There are a lot of G.o.W. tracks that go a little off kilter at least once or twice that make things a little more challenging to continally mix in phrase.
The fractal cowboys have stuff that is pretty difficult to mix at times.
Some of the darker french stuff like Jellyheadz and Dejan are a little more challenging to mix.
The real key to mixing any music is really knowing your tracks inside and out. You need to know when the track is going to shift and figure out when and where to mix it or to switch basslines...
In general, the more melodic stuff is a little more formatted to the point where if you just got the cd, you could beatmatch a lot of the tracks without listening to it too many times. This doesn't always apply to everything released in that particular style, but more often than not the producers tend not to break the phrase structure.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
1098
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 20:48
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@Kiva IMo dark isnt that much harder to mix, unless its Russian, or its low quality Orion or other mid-level program produced trance. (which there is much more of this stuff in the dark side)
@offthenut 100% agree with you. I push myself for perfection with everysingle set. If i blow 1 mix, thats 1 too many and it doesnt take a serious screw up for me to consider a mix blown. I do hold other performers to the same standards that i hold myself. but as everyones standards are different, thats a loosing battle
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 20:56
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 21:27
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David,
It is harder, but you will not break you mind mixing it. You just have to know the tracks so you will not get surprised by any cuts off bar. A hard one to mix out of is Osom Over Game (And oldie but an Osom track
But it definitelly requires higher concentration that full on or prograssive |
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thegooddale
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
626
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 21:52
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I think that the Bug Funk stuff and Gizmo Kaka stuff is the hardest I've tried to mix... and Zik's stuff is very difficult as well. |
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David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
487
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 22:04
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OK so Im going to generalize here..... well because thats what I do when I screen music that is not common to my ears. And taking that Im hearing this stuff to see for myself where it can complicate a mix or two in a set (keeping on topic).
The artists that i listened to were: 16 trks total (do i need more really .. I think not)
GOW(the clit commander)
Para Hulu
Jahbo
Kindzadza
abnormal
vector slector
Jelly headz
ocelot
so I think Ive heard enough to see that
1. it all has a kick.
2.rolly basslines (very similar throughout different
tracks and artists)
3.chirpy bird noises or leads that pierce. kind of like video game noises. The leads tend to go off on thier own tangents creating a swells of sound that can loose sight of the beat.
4. Movie samples (probably from horror movies?) the best one I heard was "I am the clit commander-I am the master of the clit" HAHAHAHAHAHAHLOL on the floor laughing. that took the scowl right off my face after 8 tracks. generally very morbid sounding samples Oh and dont forget a few screams.
IM READY TO KICK SOMEONES ASS!! (my feeling afterward)
I can see where this style could get complicated to mix but in the end it reminds me of the same sort of challenges i faced trying to mix GOA. It has a kick and I can beat match any kick. I do however agree that you definetly need to know your tracks before just throwing some of these out on the crowd. IMO because its so angry and mad you need to tame the beast, if you will. Track selection I think is everything with this style of trance. AND whoever is trainwrecking this style of trance needs to be shot because it already sounds like fucking trainwreck(figuratively speaking)!!! Whoa i think im still feeling the effects of this music.
@ paradigm
I think we all have the same standards here. And yes we will never win the battle because there is always going to be someone out there who just doesnt get it!! whether they play light or dark. so lets just keep on trucking and get to where WE want to go with these crowds and forget about the rest still struggling to find the craft of djing.
http://soundcloud.com/djkiva |
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 22:15
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David what do you play. Just curious |
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