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Performance standards light vs dark

offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:00
Mubali,
The artists produces however they feel like As a DJ we have to be creative with the way I mix with the music provided. Goa was a bitch to mix, and I think the underground music release now is a similar organic composition.

Like every story, music has foreplay, climax, euphoria and then the slowdown to a conclusion... As a DJ, since the story gets much longer, all the parts get longer. So it is the DJs job, to create those parts with several tracks. It is a editing process, piecing parts of the tracks to be part of a bigger whole. The quality of this editing is the DJs job.

I like the music for what it is, but in my case is what I can do for the music that tickles my brain

Dimitry,
I do not advocate for shorter mixes. I personally like to ride the tracks from beginning to end. I like to make a new track putting two together. I just love mixing. I mean if I mix a track in for one minute and out for another minute, then i have 5 minutes of doofing? I prefer to be working the mix all accross the track, giving hints of whats to come and adding something new to what already exist. Beat matching can be done in <1minute... from there you can ride parts of the track together adding more layers. One track responding to the other and adding more atmospherics and energy. It also adds originality. Adjust your eq and add fx and voila!

You are right too, I have my style, it is not better or worst than any other... as long as the dancefloor is exploding with this incredible sensory experience.

mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:12
Very true... I do agree that it is the dj's job to interpret how to mix the track... It just sometimes makes the job easier if the artist is sympathetic with the dj and attempts to close out the story without having too many things to mess them up. The artist can write the track however he wants, but sometimes if the artist writes a track that is a little too difficult to mix, some djs will just skip the track. That was one of the main things I recognised as a producer. Does it hinder me in any way, not really, but I was a dj first... I might be singing a different tune if I wrote music before becoming a dj.


Personally, I like 2 and 3 minute mixes in and out of each track... guess where that comes from... that also is probably why most of my songs are 8 minutes + though...          An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  1098
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:15
so because an act is making music they like and doing it for what it is its ok to be a bad performer?

If they have the dancefloor rocking its ok?
Who cares?

All very good points, not some i would agree with though.
70% of a dance floor cant tell a good mix from a bad mix, let alone whether a track is mixed or not
From a local acts standpoint, ok not that big a deal. Your doing your own little part to perpetuate the scene and music, and hopefully spread the gospel of what you like to hear Way to go, right on for getting out there and doing your own part.

For a international guy thats asking over a $1000 to play. there is a minimal standard that i think should apply. Also if you are a dj, and promoting yourself as a "dj", than you had better know who to handle the basics of the craft, regardless of what style you are playing
None of these hold true in our scene.
It is a fact, that most dj's of other genres look down on psy dj's.
Not because play cd''s over vinyl but because there is such a propagation of bad djs that cant mix, doing good for themselves, that it makes all of us look bad, and that its ok to be a shitty dj in this scene.


There certainly is more an emphasis in psy on what is being played as to how it is being played. This applys to the genre as a whole
however i think this line of thought is more prevelant in dark.
As long as its crazy, psychedelic and we havnt heard it before , who cares if it sounded like a Union Pacific train falling off a cliff when it came in

and you can still be underground and have an underground vibe, but bring a hint of professionality with you

mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:23
Ok... I am going to get slightly personal here for a second, but Paradigm, before we were djs and just partygoers we didn't really care if the artist started and stopped between tracks, we didn't care if the dj beatmatched every single track either. Because we didn't know. Once we became djs we became jaded and I think that is one of the reasons why we are critical of others, because we are that critical of ourselves, and rather than expect perfection from everyone else, just expect perfection from yourself and don't really trip off what anyone else is doing. Otherwise these relatively pointless debates happen and you end up sounding kinda assholish.           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:34
To get really critical about dj mixing... Can you key mix? Do you know what the harmonic minor for mixing two tracks with different basslines are??? There was once a time when all that mattered was the music and everything else was just semantics. In my opinion, as soon as it was discovered that you could make decent money off this, the music itself fell by the wayside to the person doing the music. I personally am jaded as well. I notice when djs are off, I notice when a bassline shouldn't have gone with that kick, I notice when the synthline is off key, but rather than talk shit and bitch about them getting $1000 to come and play track after track, I decided to beat them at their own game and show them a different way. Isn't that really what the whole DIY concept is in creating parties. If you want something done right (or in your opinion right) do it yourself. We could sit up for years and complain on how someone gets paid to do virtually nothing in front of a crowd, but what is that going to do for the music or the scene or ourselves for that matter? The people that do what you dislike aren't going wake up, read this thread, decide you're right and change their ways. And there are way too many people that don't really care either way.... It's all about accepting the things that you cannot change and changing the things you cannot accept. In a sense I can understand why you started this thread, but at the same time it seems that this whole thread is one big bitching session for something that is completely out of your control. Remember the roots of this music. It didn't start out like house or techno or breakbeat... This music was a fusion of things that didn't seem like they went together but managed to anyway. Nobody cared about beatmatching, that is something that became invented when djs of other genres began playing and making psychedelic trance.           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:44
@ offthenutboom:

Totally agree with you on the more minimal style tracks - a lot of banging SA, dark, full-on, etc. are very minimal these days. They can definitely use longer mixes.

With the really psychedelic stuff, I prefer to let the tracks breathe - 1.5 - 2.5 min mixes, no longer. These tracks tell tweaky stories, and need to tell them without too much interruption, imo. Now if the story gets boring or veers in the wrong direction, then you change the topic.

again, this is just my opinion.

          ..it's just another party..
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 22:47
@ mubali

I think a good DJ knows what tracks go musically together - and usually those are the tracks written in complementary keys.

and I might be flamed for this, but I think this disregard for DJ skills and performance skills in the psytrance culture keeps away a lot of people who would otherwise love it, and play it, and dance to it. I am not talking about superstars here, just regular open-minded EDM freaks who might like <gasp> other styles besides psytrance as well.


2 cents
          ..it's just another party..
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 23:17
I can totally agree with that Dimitry.. It is true that the disregard can have an effect on other edm fans, but what about those that haven't heard electronic music before? To be honest I started as a jungle dj and it wasn't the djs that made me love psytrance, it was the music itself. The whole electronic music culture as a whole has gotten very hung up on the dj concept and many times forget that without artists, djs are just people who know how to turn on a stereo....

At the same time without djs, artists would be playing music for themselves and their friends. It is a symbiotic relationship and it would be great for us to have some sort of standard on what should be a performance and whatnot, but at the same time would close us off fromthe rest of the community, which also turns people off from psychedelic trance

          An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 14, 2005 23:36
Also allow to be upfront about my views. I am not advocating shitty performances per se... I am advocating artists and djs to do their thing without worrying about what some joe blow dj or producer from such and such town has to say... Otherwise you'll find djs and producers "Keeping Up with the Joneses" or copying eachothers style.... Wait... Too late for that...

          An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
dtmoney
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  261
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 02:06
Personally, the only people I've met who are all anal about a dj's tech skills are other djs. I'm not saying any names, but I remember when I went to a party where one dj was spinning psy, and another guy I was talking with said "This guy's beatmatching is wayy off. He can't spin for shit. "

I haven't been spinning for too long(only for one year), but I know from my own experience that you can have two tracks playing on their best pitch settings, and they will still go out of sync after a few seconds. If that's the case, it's not the dj's fault, but it's just that those two tracks don't mix together well, beatmatching-wise.

Seriously though, who gives a flying fuck whether or not someone has great dj tech skills. When I goto a club, I'm only listening to the music and having fun. I don't pay attention to all that tech stuff. And as a matter a fact, most partygoers aren't either. Music is suppose to be a listening experience, not a fucking tech skill. For all you shady djs who actually think you're worth something because you're in the spotlight for a few hours, YOU FUCKING SUCK, because apparently, you've forgotten what music is suppose to do.

DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 02:26
Quote:

On 2005-04-15 02:06, dtmoney wrote:
I haven't been spinning for too long(only for one year), but I know from my own experience that you can have two tracks playing on their best pitch settings, and they will still go out of sync after a few seconds. If that's the case, it's not the dj's fault, but it's just that those two tracks don't mix together well, beatmatching-wise.



You're talking about CDs, I assume, because with turntables you can beatmatch almost freakin anything perfectly.

if the track has a stable BPM (and most do, with some exceptions like Hallucinogen - Lone Deranger), you should be able to beat synch it for at least half a minute to a minute or so on decent CD decks, and longer on good CD decks with finer pitch adjustment. My roommate has really crappy CD decks that don't have accurate pitch control and when mixing on those, you have to continually nudge the jog wheel so that the tunes stay on beat. Yes, it makes the DJ do a little more work, but it's worth it, imo. Trainwrecks suck.

          ..it's just another party..
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 02:45
I've got a pair of CMX 3000's and occasionally I still have to nudge it a little bit as well. Life would be nice if you could just set the pitch correctly and go, but I think it really adds more to the challenge of djing if you have to mess with it a little bit here and there...

The one track that was always the biggest pain in the ass for me to mix was Artfakt - Sex and Death... It was something like 144.5 bpm....
          An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 03:11
I've been thinking about getting CDJ 200s - .02 pitch control. Really useful for anything outside the normal BPM range.

though I've never seen them in action. anyone?


>message edited.          ..it's just another party..
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 03:18
They have .05, but I just got the cmxs a couple months ago. I used to try and beatmatch that track on a pair of 100s and had to ride the jog wheel the entire time....
Otherwise I would have been able to do it with the .35 feature... I might have to try that when I get home... I keep forgetting that the cmxs are that much more exact. Lemme know how those 200s work for ya...           An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  36
Posts :  487
Posted : Apr 15, 2005 04:06
damn and I thought I was jaded!           http://soundcloud.com/djkiva
Trance Forum » » Forum  North America - Performance standards light vs dark
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