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omnitribe

SmokedSalmon


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  57
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 01:05
Quote:

we provide ear plugs for her she chooses not to wear them.  it's fine.  she is a person right? able to make decisions? 



<SARCASM>
1- my baby chose to stick her finger in to the power outlet in the wall (now she is in morgue). it's fine. she is person right? able to make decisions?

2- my baby chose to stick a blueberry in her nose (now she is emergency room). it's fine. she is person right? able to make decisions?

3- we provide pull-ups. she chooses not to wear them. my baby chose to shit on the carpet. it's fine. she is person right? able to make decisions?

4- my baby chose to ________________________ . it's fine. she is person right? able to make decisions?

Please fill in the blanks!!!!!

</SARCASM>


I wonder if she asked the baby if she wanted to go to a party? was that the baby's decision too?

Yeah MAMA, I can't speak to you but you know I want to go to psy-trance party and observe the freaks.

Oh I can go on and on and on............
nobody_3
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  1177
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 01:31
Some people were standing last in the line when God handed out brains... she WAS the last in that line....LOL
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 04:19
Quote:
we provide ear plugs for her she chooses not to wear them. it's fine. she is a person right? able to make decisions? i suppose in this society we discredit the ability of the young (as well as the old) to make decisions for themselves.



Wow, that makes me so angry! It's already been said: a 2 yr old cannot understand much at all, much less the long-term effects of listening to loud music!!! Therefore the child should not be able to make a choice about whether or not s/he wears ear plugs. Even if the child was 8 years old, this decision should not be left to them, because they may not fully understand the concept of long term consequences.

Quote:
What better place for a baby than with the mother? perhaps you will leave your baby with a babysitter, but i choose to bring my baby into my life and make her a part of what i do.



I don't know if this has occured to you, BUT HOW ABOUT STAYING HOME!! Going to parties is not a necessity. There are many sacrifices involved in raising a child, and cutting back on recreational activities is one of them.



I would love to report this selfish person to the authorities, if I ever saw them. Certainly what they are doing is illegal AND unethical, and their child would be taken away if they continued. The problem is, the child would probably be worse off in the authorities' hands.

Can you please tell me on which of the million New York lists this person posts. I would love to get on that list.

I am also curious...was there anyone on that list that supported the parents?
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 04:20
tripout ny.
nyc604....
right salmon?          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
SmokedSalmon


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  57
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 04:34
It wasnt 604NYC......

Don't worry though I have included the URL for this thread in my email that I sent to her.
I bet she will come here and read!

Cubensis!
As far as I can remember some peeps have supported ... you might have to read.
sir eel
Waterjuice
Started Topics :  7
Posts :  62
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 07:55
are you serious? Authorities? please. I'm sure they will approve of what you are doing at a party....snitch

as for kids knowing and not knowing, I wonder if you are parents, probably not...I mean, you all survived, right? You all seem a bit oblivious of the fact that if that kid ain';t havin it at the party you can be sure YOU won't be either....period. If you neglect that, then you've got some other problems, which can be a factor. But, none of you have the right to saythat that mama is so evil, do what you wan't with your own kid.

so can it with the puritanical bullshit.....I agree with DiMiTrY in many respects.... being over-controlling can also have opposite effects....my parents were way freaked out in all the ways we are....Guess what?! I like to party and I'm not deaf.....as for hearing loss and age...it can be genetic AND you might lose your facilities either way, party or not....

just don't be mean, I know it can be hard over there compared to fluffy SanFran!

A 2-year can't understand much? you just don't know do you? hehe.....a 2-yr old can be very persuasive...


cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 08:30
Quote:

On 2003-12-31 07:55, sir eel wrote:
as for kids knowing and not knowing, I wonder if you are parents, probably not...I mean, you all survived, right?



You don't have to be a parent to understand any of this. EVERYONE has been exposed to 2 yr olds. And we are not talking about survivial...we are talking about long-term health, and the ability of babies to make decisions.

Look, I don't understand how anyone can defend these parents. Follow me:

Loud parties cause hearing loss-->hearing loss is permanant-->child at party will permanantly lose hearing-->2 yr old child cannot make an informed decision about hearing loss-->repeatedly bringing little children to loud parties without hearing protection = child abuse

People seem to take hearing loss very litely, because the consequences are so far off in the future, but let me make this easier for you:

Second hand smoke is strongly linked with asthma, and other diseases-->child whose mother smokes around him/her knowingly puts him/her at greater risk for lifelong disease-->2 yr old child cannot make an informed decision about smoke exposure-->mother frequently smoking around children = child abuse

I bet many will agree with the second scenario, but not the first. WHY? They are the same damned shit.

Quote:
I like to party and I'm not deaf



First of all, how do you know your hearing hasn't been affected? Have you ever had your hearing tested? Hearing loss is not easily noticed in its early stages. Second, of course you will not be DEAF yet. Hearing loss is a progressive disease, so you may pay for today's transgressions later in life

Quote:
..as for hearing loss and age...it can be genetic AND you might lose your facilities either way, party or not..



So what? No one will have their hearing improved by going to lots of parties. It's all a matter of how much hearing you will lose. If you are genetically lucky, you may lose only a little. If you lost the genetic lottery, then you will accelerate the process.

Let's not stray from the topic...A 2 YR OLD CANNOT MAKE THIS DECISION FOR HERSELF! DO I HAVE TO WEAR A BRIGHT ORANGE MONKEY SUIT AND JUMP UP AND DOWN TO HAMMER THIS ONE HOME!
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 10:19
I'm just wondering - just which authorities are you going to report this to? NYPD? And to what end? So the baby ends up in a state-run facility?
and this is for taking the kid to a trance party?

We're flirting with new consciousness here and new ways of living. Let's try and not force our beliefs, however righteous they might seem, on anyone. Perhaps there are some things that mother knows better than any of us - especially since it doesn't seem that anyon who wrote harsh and judgemental words here has their own children.

Finally, I don't know that children are more prone to hearing loss than adults - it seems logical, but I haven't seen any facts showing it. Besides the hypothetical hearing loss, what is the problem with parents taking their kids to, say, an outdoor festival where the noise level is much lower than in a club? There's a whole village for kids at Burningman, and, from what I've seen, they love it there.

peace
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 19:39
Who said they were going to call the authorities?

Quote:
On 2003-12-31 10:19, DiMiTry wrote:
Besides the hypothetical hearing loss, what is the problem with parents taking their kids to, say, an outdoor festival where the noise level is much lower than in a club?



I see no problem with that. It's been discussed here, recently: http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/26524/forum/1

And what is this BS about new consciousness? And who cares if children are more or less prone to hearing loss? ALL TYPES of humans will lose hearing in such situations, and this is unfair to a 2 yr old because they never got to make the decision for themselves

Perhaps I have a different perspective on hearing loss because I have worked with many elderly patients, and been to a few nursing homes, etc. Maybe you don't realize what a big problem it is, since out of sight = out of mind. Old age in itself is enough to cause social isolation, can imagine not being able to communicate on top of that?

Perhaps you think it is no big deal because you will just get a hearing aid. Well, I have news for you....HEARING AIDS SUCK! They are difficult for the elderly to operate, with their small buttons and switches, it really sucks when the batteries run out and you don't have any handy, and the quality of sound from most is hurrendous.

DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 03:31
Quote:

ALL TYPES of humans will lose hearing in such situations, and this is unfair to a 2 yr old because they never got to make the decision for themselves



you're absolutely right. the same should apply in the cases of:

parents taking kids to the movie theater to watch very loud action movies

parents letting kids play loud music in their headphones (probably much worse than bringing them to a club)

parents taking kids to very loud baseball games

etc.
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 08:08
Quote:
you're absolutely right. the same should apply in the cases of:

parents taking kids to the movie theater to watch very loud action movies



Hmm, perhaps, but certainly a movie is not as loud as a club! Maybe for split seconds, but it's not continuous 110 dB like a club.

Quote:
parents letting kids play loud music in their headphones (probably much worse than bringing them to a club)



Yes, of course, but this is a little different, no? In one situation the parent brings his child to a club, in the other the child can blast his/her headphones on their own, even when the parent tells them to stop.

Solution=buy your child some headphones with good sound isolation (like the types you put in your ear), so they don't have to put it as loud to block out the surrounding noise =).

Quote:
parents taking kids to very loud baseball games



LOL, which kinds of baseball games are these! =D
nobody_3
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  1177
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 13:56
Quote:

On 2004-01-02 03:31, DiMiTry wrote:
Quote:

ALL TYPES of humans will lose hearing in such situations, and this is unfair to a 2 yr old because they never got to make the decision for themselves



you're absolutely right. the same should apply in the cases of:

parents taking kids to the movie theater to watch very loud action movies

parents letting kids play loud music in their headphones (probably much worse than bringing them to a club)

parents taking kids to very loud baseball games

etc.




I am not sure where you come from? But in most civilised countries there are strict regulations and rules about the level of sound in Movie Theatres and as far as I know there's also restrictions on age on those Action Movies

Yes I agree on the Headphones.. It's very damaging for the ears but it's still not an excuse for bringing kids to parties....
Again it's up to the parents and it's their responsability to bring up their kids as safe as possible....

As for the sport events I can't really say if it's damaging for the ears or not but I seriously doubt it's as damaging as standing in front of some Turbo speakers all night long..... And another issue...what about the kids sleep? As far as I know a sport event is mostly in the daytime or early evening..... not all night!
DETOX
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  296
Posts :  6194
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 16:05
Can someone please call NYPD next time they see these 'parents' with that baby on a party???

Better on a government institute than with those 'people'.

I wouldnt feel safe if i was 2 years old and my parents thought that i could decide for myself.           Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!!
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 18:52
Quote:

And another issue...what about the kids sleep? As far as I know a sport event is mostly in the daytime or early evening..... not all night!


yes, sleep should definitely be an issue. sleeping somewhere on the club floor would be pretty gnarly for a kid. for that reason alone I wouldn't bring a kid to an all-night party.

besides, I have a feeling most children would absolutely hate being in a loud techno club at night, anyway. i don't see it happen much at indoor parties.

but I still think that we should put more trust in people who come to parties, especially in the US where the scene is small and the average trancer is usually pretty enlightened compared to the general populace. if she thinks her kid wants to be there, then let her decide for herself 'cause she's the mother and she probably cares a lot and knows her kid better than we do - at least that's what I gathered from her (well-written) letter.

btw - if you've ever met any home-schooled children, you'll agree that kids who grow up outside the system are way more interesting than those who don't.
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Jan 2, 2004 19:46
Quote:
On 2004-01-02 16:05, DETOX wrote:
Can someone please call NYPD next time they see these 'parents' with that baby on a party???



Oh no! If they ended up taking the child away (I don't think they would for this), then the child would be much worse off. Social services for children suck in the US.

These parents seem like they care. They are just stupid if they think a 2 yr old can make good decisions.
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