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omnitribe

Localsky
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  16
Posts :  117
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 04:07
Quote:

On 2003-12-15 23:16, DiMiTry wrote:

I agree with the ear damage point.. totally disagree with everything else. There's absolutely nothing wrong for a kid to see people dancing, tripping, doing whatever else. Kids who are exposed to things grow up faster and smarter.




I don't what to be mean but that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Go read a book on child psychology.           my cat is deathly afraid of aluminum foil
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 12:26
Instead of saying that, why don't you actually explain your thoughts. If you have read books on child psychology, please share the wisdom you've gotten out of them. That would be so much more constructive....

otherwise, maybe you should go hang out with some hippie kids. I've met children that are twice as smart any of us, literally. Books on child psychology have created the universe we are living in. Look around you - Ritalin and Nintendo - is that what you are advocating?

peace out
amyrobin14


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  23
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 16:13
[quote]
On 2003-12-15 23:16, DiMiTry wrote:

I agree with the ear damage point.. totally disagree with everything else. There's absolutely nothing wrong for a kid to see people dancing, tripping, doing whatever else. Kids who are exposed to things grow up faster and smarter.

Why would you want kids to grow up faster? One of my concerns about our society today is that boys and girls are growing up way too fast. I hope that when I have children they develop naturally, and I certainly do not plan on exposing them to drugs.
When I was a little girl, I used to hate seeing my parents even drink alcohol. Drugs, alcohol change your personality either a little bit or alot when you are under the influence. I don't think that it is fair for kids to have to see their parents in altered states of mind induced by chemicals. That can be traumatizing!
One of the amazing things about children is their innocence. Their simplistic view on life is what we can take a lesson from -- they won't have that pure perspective if they grow up so quickly.
One more thing -- growing up in rural New Hampshire, I've been exposed to alternate lifestyles my whole life. The "hippie kids" you might be talking about are no different from any other kids. In fact, many of them seem to have rebelled against their parents lifestyle -- in the long run, they may have adapted some of their parents persepectives, but in general, I don't think that they are smarter or better than any other kids.
Jeto
Moderator

Started Topics :  258
Posts :  3252
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 23:50
My 2 cents...

If your brought up in that enviorment, you learn and adapt to it.

staticfish


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  13
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 00:00
[quote] On 2003-12-15 18:09, bluespectralmonkey wrote:
<but when it does happen, i think of how bad it really could be, with the parents leaving the kid alone in the car or something>

it'd be a real shame if it came down to this...that's when one needs to ask themselves if a party and having a 'good time' is really worth more than their child's welfare.

[quote] On 2003-12-15 19:03, droozi wrote:
<my parents left me alone with the maid and went to parties when I was growing up, and I am not sure if that was right either>

you're parents obviously asked themselves if it was really appropriate for a child to be at adult functions and exposed to 'adult' things...which is commendable. with regard to the smoking ban in bars: we all know clouds of this, that, and the other infiltrate the air at these parties.

anyhow, well said amyrobinson. as adults, we come to these parties with the full awareness of our choices and actions. the hazards of putting a baby or animal in these circumstances (specifically indoor parties) has far more consequences. children/animals do not have a choice - it is up to the parents/owners to use their discretion. i've met loads of parents who bring their kids to festivals - but the kids were over 15 years of age, having formed a bond with their parent(s) after experienced and appreciated the musical and cultural aspects on their own initially. i personally feel that it's irresponsible and in poor judgement to expose such young children to ear damage, smoke inhalation, sleep deprivation, and possible trauma-induced situations (what happens if the baby sips a water bottle with which someone has mixed their acid!?). but hey, to each his own...
staticfish


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  13
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 00:00
[quote] On 2003-12-15 18:09, bluespectralmonkey wrote:
<but when it does happen, i think of how bad it really could be, with the parents leaving the kid alone in the car or something>

it'd be a real shame if it came down to this...that's when one needs to ask themselves if a party and having a 'good time' is really worth more than their child's welfare.

[quote] On 2003-12-15 19:03, droozi wrote:
<my parents left me alone with the maid and went to parties when I was growing up, and I am not sure if that was right either>

you're parents obviously asked themselves if it was really appropriate for a child to be at adult functions and exposed to 'adult' things...which is commendable. with regard to the smoking ban in bars: we all know clouds of this, that, and the other infiltrate the air at these parties.

anyhow, well said amyrobinson. as adults, we come to these parties with the full awareness of our choices and actions. the hazards of putting a baby or animal in these circumstances (specifically indoor parties) has far more consequences. children/animals do not have a choice - it is up to the parents/owners to use their discretion. i've met loads of parents who bring their kids to festivals - but the kids were over 15 years of age, having formed a bond with their parent(s) after experienced and appreciated the musical and cultural aspects on their own initially. i personally feel that it's irresponsible and in poor judgement to expose such young children to ear damage, smoke inhalation, sleep deprivation, and possible trauma-induced situations (what happens if the baby sips a water bottle with which someone has mixed their acid!?). but hey, to each his own...
staticfish


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  13
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 00:00
[quote] On 2003-12-15 18:09, bluespectralmonkey wrote:
<but when it does happen, i think of how bad it really could be, with the parents leaving the kid alone in the car or something>

it'd be a real shame if it came down to this...that's when one needs to ask themselves if a party and having a 'good time' is really worth more than their child's welfare.

[quote] On 2003-12-15 19:03, droozi wrote:
<my parents left me alone with the maid and went to parties when I was growing up, and I am not sure if that was right either>

you're parents obviously asked themselves if it was really appropriate for a child to be at adult functions and exposed to 'adult' things...which is commendable. with regard to the smoking ban in bars: we all know clouds of this, that, and the other infiltrate the air at these parties.

anyhow, well said amyrobinson. as adults, we come to these parties with the full awareness of our choices and actions. the hazards of putting a baby or animal in these circumstances (specifically indoor parties) has far more consequences. children/animals do not have a choice - it is up to the parents/owners to use their discretion. i've met loads of parents who bring their kids to festivals - but the kids were over 15 years of age, having formed a bond with their parent(s) after experienced and appreciated the musical and cultural aspects on their own initially. i personally feel that it's irresponsible and in poor judgement to expose such young children to ear damage, smoke inhalation, sleep deprivation, and possible trauma-induced situations (what happens if the baby sips a water bottle with which someone has mixed their acid!?). but hey, to each his own...
DiMiTry
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  70
Posts :  2299
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 01:30
Quote:

On 2003-12-18 16:13, amyrobin14 wrote:

Why would you want kids to grow up faster? One of my concerns about our society today is that boys and girls are growing up way too fast.



what do you mean, 'too fast'? We keep 'playing' long past we're 16 or 18 or whatever. our childhood has extended to past 30 years of age! People who are married and have their own kids are just as helpless in real life situations as when they were 12.

Quote:

I hope that when I have children they develop naturally, and I certainly do not plan on exposing them to drugs.



it is a fact that in Jewish families where kids grow up seeing their parents drink - ritually at many holidays - have low incidence of alcoholism. Perhaps it would be similar of other drugs, too, no? By artificially sheltering your children from anything, will you not increase the risk of them 'rebelling' and going out and getting sloshed in the 7-11 parking lot?

Quote:

Drugs, alcohol change your personality either a little bit or alot when you are under the influence. I don't think that it is fair for kids to have to see their parents in altered states of mind induced by chemicals. That can be traumatizing!



I am not advocating getting plastered and then hanging out with your kids, but anything in moderation and with a sense of responsibility should be fine. Knowing your limits is key, at any time, and especially when you've got kids.

Basically, my belief is that if you have kids, that means that you are ready to expose them to every aspect of your life. That's how it's happened for ages, and that's what parents do. Protecting them from it won't do any good, for them or for you.
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Dec 21, 2003 01:21
I am amazed that this thread has reached this length.

FACT: Loud music damages hearing.

Anyone care to dispute that?

Why would you want to damage your child's hearing? They do not have the knowledge to make an informed choice on this matter, so it is up to the parents to do it for them. I cannot imagine any scenario in which a party is more important than your child's hearing.

I would think this would lead to the end of discussion.

Quote:

On 2003-12-13 01:56, Surrender wrote:
those guys always bring their kid(s) to parties... you never met those guys?



Man, those parents' priorities must be really fucked up if they feel that a weekly night of fun is more important than the preservation of an important sense that their child will use for the next 80 years!!!
cubensis


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  94
Posted : Dec 21, 2003 01:33
OFF TOPIC

I'm curious, do any of you have deaf/hard of hearing people in your family?

My grandmother is extremely hard of hearing, in both ears. Without a hearing aid, she cannot hear a damned thing. With her hearing aid, you still must scream for her to hear you. As a result, she sits in a sort of prison all day where she hardly communicates with anyone. She is too old and too stubborn to learn sign language.

My mother is now losing her hearing too. It is not so bad now, but it is quite annoying to always have to repeat everything.

BTW, you can't really put earplugs in small children's ears. Placing earplugs into the narrow ear canal of adult ears can be quite difficult, can you imagine trying to get them into children's ears? I mean properly inserting them, not just letting them sit on the outer portion of your ear, which barely does anything to block sound.
SmokedSalmon


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  57
Posted : Dec 30, 2003 21:22
Sorry to bring this back up again but I just found the original email from the parents of this kid.
The email starts here.......

Allo,

did my baby seem unhappy?  ...to be at a party?  ...with MOSTLY fun and friendly people?  my baby is two years old.  she does not speak a word.  i communicate with her very well.  she understands many words in may different languages.  she is an observer.  she has been with me almost every moment since her birth.  what better place for a baby than with the mother?  perhaps you will leave your baby with a babysitter, but i choose to bring my baby into my life and make her a part of what i do.  we provide ear plugs for her she chooses not to wear them.  it's fine.  she is a person right? able to make decisions?  i suppose in this society we discredit the ability of the young (as well as the old) to make decisions for themselves. furthermore, we are a large group of friends that travel to parties together and we all look out for her.  it is good that we have people like you to share in the concern.

tikka.
-joey
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 30, 2003 21:54
Quote:

On 2003-12-30 21:22, SmokedSalmon wrote:
Sorry to bring this back up again but I just found the original email from the parents of this kid.
The email starts here.......

Allo,

did my baby seem unhappy?  ...to be at a party?  ...with MOSTLY fun and friendly people?  my baby is two years old.  she does not speak a word.  i communicate with her very well.  she understands many words in may different languages.  she is an observer.  she has been with me almost every moment since her birth.  what better place for a baby than with the mother?  perhaps you will leave your baby with a babysitter, but i choose to bring my baby into my life and make her a part of what i do.  we provide ear plugs for her she chooses not to wear them.  it's fine.  she is a person right? able to make decisions?  i suppose in this society we discredit the ability of the young (as well as the old) to make decisions for themselves. furthermore, we are a large group of friends that travel to parties together and we all look out for her.  it is good that we have people like you to share in the concern.

tikka.
-joey




i would report these parents to the authorities.           "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
SmokedSalmon


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  57
Posted : Dec 30, 2003 21:58
I might actually if see the kid at the dancefloor again. And I sent the parents a long email just now.
This is infuriating.
Can't they hear themselves?
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Dec 30, 2003 23:25
actually i'm pretty sure that this is criminal what they are doing.           "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
nobody_3
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  1177
Posted : Dec 31, 2003 00:50
Quote:

On 2003-12-30 21:22, SmokedSalmon wrote:
Sorry to bring this back up again but I just found the original email from the parents of this kid.
The email starts here.......

Allo,

did my baby seem unhappy?  ...to be at a party?  ...with MOSTLY fun and friendly people?  my baby is two years old.  she does not speak a word.  i communicate with her very well.  she understands many words in may different languages.  she is an observer.  she has been with me almost every moment since her birth.  what better place for a baby than with the mother?  perhaps you will leave your baby with a babysitter, but i choose to bring my baby into my life and make her a part of what i do.  we provide ear plugs for her she chooses not to wear them.  it's fine.  she is a person right? able to make decisions?  i suppose in this society we discredit the ability of the young (as well as the old) to make decisions for themselves. furthermore, we are a large group of friends that travel to parties together and we all look out for her.  it is good that we have people like you to share in the concern.

tikka.
-joey




Those parents must be tripping their heads off (another valid argument for taking their kid away from them). How can anyone claim that a 2 year old child can think for him/herself? And as she herself write "my baby is two years old". Yes a BABY - NOT an 5-7 year old kid that can think somehow rationally or a teenager or an adult - A BABY!

Just the fact that this so-called "mother" choose to ignore that the kid do not "want" to use the earplugs says everything about that mother.... In my part of the world it's a huge neglection and abuse of a child...no lees no more!
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