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Of Dogs and Babies.
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pavi
IsraTrance Junior Member
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478
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 20:48
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Right on Abatwa...got me thinking, its - like so much in life - a balance. Always watching out for others may earn you temporary respect, the moral high-ground, but whats that worth when you realise a few years down the line that you've closed yourself off to many notions, and missed out on many nice experiences. But hey - you had the moral high ground! Pretty worthless in a scene that thrives on open-mindedness.
The balance definetly tilts toward bringing kids to parties after a certain age...when I would consider the effects of NOT exposing my kids to the trance-party experience MORE dangerous than the damage that could be caused to their ears. They could turn out hiphop gangstas instead!  ( Thats open-mindedness for ya  )
  Within this timeless gathering,
a shining light does dance,
lost from conscious memory,
but visible in trance!
www.alchemyrecords.co.uk |
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Yuli
Retired
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Posted : Dec 14, 2003 21:48
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| I see it as exactly the same as someone lighting a cigarette without asking first (even thought there's a difference there...it's also dangerious.... well you could also get bitten by a dog) or someone inviting his/her friends over to your house without your permission.
You choosed to get a dog so it's your responsability to make sure that the dog is not home alone and miserable. What would you do if someone came to you at a party and asked you to get the dog out of there because he or she is afraid of dogs, are annoy of it's presence or becasue he or she is allergic to dogs?
The point is that you havent asked any of the people that also bought a ticket if it's ok with them that you bring your dog.... I hope you see my point.... I dont know a better way to explain it |
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U explained it very well mr E, but eventho it makes a complete sense, it is a little bit deranged from reality.. Kinda a vacuum plan.. u know.. In life generally we deal with no Black / White but with heeps of shades of gray. The point in gray is, that if u get yourself a dog but u still is a party person, then u will teach your dog to be friendly and handle it in the manner it shoud be handled, and it will be cool mate.. I have been in many parties and stepped into more human shit than doggie shit.. And that is the point of NATURE parties, they have no fences and it aint a club, so IMO it is not a question of ethics at all if to bring a pet or not ( ofcourse if the dog is violent dont bring him ). It is only about the welfare of the pet or the child.
Oops and btw my opinion about below 3 years old ( of a child ) is medical opinion. The head grows till that time very fast and all the area of the head is extremely vulnerable mr. E
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Dec 14, 2003 21:52
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Yep Kristian- please no speciesism in the forum
But really, I think that Abatawa has a point, and no I don't need to ask the people in advance if it's OK to bring my dog more than they need to tell me in advance not to bring a dog.
My solution usually to someone afraid of my dog, is to get the two to know each other- then they usually get along just fine.
It works with two people as well, but more difficult.
And Yuli is right about the human shit, it even smells worse
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Yuli
Retired
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Posted : Dec 14, 2003 21:55
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Quote:
| My solution usually to someone afraid of my dog, is to get the two to know each other- then they usually get along just fine. |
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or just take the other side of the party. As one that respects the other u wont like to feel that someone is intimidated, even if u think it is completely without basis to happen.
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1025
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 22:18
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EP, finally we agree on something  .
In a perfect world I would love bringing my children (haven’t gotten any yet), and my dogs (have one) to a trance party/festival, but are world is pretty fucking far from being perfect. The truce is there are simply too much that can go wrong. Dogs; for example I bring my dog and she sprints all over the place and then suddenly an acidhead sees my dog as being from another planet, and tries to kill it (a bit extreme but I have seen much worse myself) or as mentioned before dog fights and yes you have got a really good point here Kristian seen to many of them at Christiania, a very uncomforting sight. Baby’s (age 1-4); little Nicky is sleeping, as sweet as baby (well it is a baby ), and I’m at the dance floor having a good time, while my friend Mr. E is watching the baby, well Mr. E falls asleep because he isn’t on any drugs (would never leave my child with a person on drugs) and he just finished smoking another blunt, my child subsequently crawls out of the tent, and to my horror I discover my baby being tramped to death by the mayhem of the crowed. If the child is even older it’s even worse in my opinion, the drug use is enough, to make me not even consider bringing an older child (6+) to a party.
To be honest trance parties are for grownups, like many things in life.
Shahar:
Of course it’s hypocritical to lie to your children about your use of cannabis, but to be truthful about such matters to your children is not necessary, it’s like your parents not discussing their sex life’s in front of you. It will automatically make the children less resistant to the temptation of smoking hashish. I don’t know about you but I do not want my children to smoke as much as I did and even do (although I have severely cut my usage down )
Cheers
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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cubensis
Started Topics :
5
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94
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 23:03
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On 2003-12-14 22:18, The Green Channel wrote:
Dog; for example I bring my dog and she sprints all over the place and then suddenly an acidhead sees my dog as being from another planet, and tries to kill it (I bit extreme but I have seen much worse myself) |
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On the 604 list, someone once posted about a party in the US (I think it was a party w/ goa gil in california) where he was in his tent with his friends and his dog. Someone, who had obviously taken way too much acid, came into the tent and bit his dog!!!!!
Werid stuff =). |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1025
Posted : Dec 14, 2003 23:19
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 Anything is possible when you cross certain boundaries, I wouldn’t trust my self either while being under the sway of certain psychedelic drugs.
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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DETOX
Moderator
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296
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6194
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 00:50
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A party (like it or not) is a place where childrens and animals are exposed to many dangers such us drugs,fights that might come up,loud sound and more.An animal and a child is not in position to protect itself,and even if children and animals are accompanied by their parents and owners there are still exposed in great dangers.
There is a reason that most festivals and clubs dont allow entrance to people under 21 and to animals.
Parties are events that gather many people of all sort of types,from the best people in the world to even the worst criminals,noone can predict how all these people will react,even the best guy on the planet can consume great quantities of drugs,pick up a knife or a glass or a beer bottle and attack anyone at any time.I have seen people attacking other people in events,i have seen all kinds of weapons from knives to guns,i have even seen a guy kicking a dog in one of my events and breaking the poor animals leg and i got so mad when i saw it that my friends had to hold me from not killing the guy,no need to say that at least 10 other people started beating the guy up until he left the place full in blood.
Lets face it parties hide great dangers and its ok when we go there at our own risk but its not nice when we expose children or animals to these dangers cause they cannot judge for themselves.
Its ok to have our children and animals in private events of 100 lets say people where everybody knows everybody but in more crowded events its not wise at all to expose them in such dangers.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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technoid
Started Topics :
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230
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 01:23
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What this comes down to is a question of responsibility.
Some dogs make good party dogs, I used to take my friend's German Shepherd/Collie cross to parties and he'd pretty much take care of me, he'd lie by the side of the dancefloor watching me, go and play with the other dogs for a bit, and always come back. He was brilliant, many tears were cried when he passed away last year... Other dogs don't make such good party dogs, they get scared by the loud music, and aren't good around crowds of mashed-up people. If if your dog can't behave at a party then don't bring it, it's quite simple. And be prepared to clear up after it if it craps on the dancefloor!
My friends kids always want to come to parties. They have a great time, I'm talking about kids like 3-4 years old and upwards... Some of us will always keep it together enough to look after the kids and I see nothing wrong with bringing them. We'll always have a bed made up for them in the back of a van so they can sleep during the night if they want to (which they usually do). I think going to parties is pretty good for kids, it helps them develop social skills and it gets them outdoors. If drugged up people misbehave it's THEM that need telling off, not the people who bought their kids to the party. I think having kids there just adds to the fluffy vibe of a good party.
Remember a thread ages ago, I think in the 'links' section, about the world's youngest DJ? He grew up on a travellers site, and was going to parties all his life. I know him and he's a great kid. It never did him any harm
Funnily enough, my friends kids seem to like the harder, faster and bouncier music, although they seem quite happy with all of it, really...
"One nation under a groove". |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Dec 15, 2003 02:43
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Kids can develop social skills on kindergarders and play areas better than parties i guess
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
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2035
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 09:26
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-15 00:50, DETOX wrote:
A party (like it or not) is a place where childrens and animals are exposed to many dangers such us drugs,fights that might come up,loud sound and more. An animal and a child is not in position to protect itself,and even if children and animals are accompanied by their parents and owners there are still exposed in great dangers.
There is a reason that most festivals and clubs dont allow entrance to people under 21 and to animals.
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The world is a dangerous place Mike. It's the parents job to protect their children the way they see fit.
If you keep your child in an oxygen tent he'll end up like Michael Jackson.
I don't see any reason to devoid my children (when I'll have ones) from the joys of life- and for me a good party is a joy of life (I won't take myself, or my dog, or my children to a shit party for sure). My duty is to show them where the line crosses in my opinion and give them the tools to decide that for themselves when they're ready to do it.
Reading some of the posts here, I'm thinking we must be going to different parties and have a very different vision of a party.
And BTW, there are many things that most establishments in our society don't allow- that doesn't make them right, especially considering the way our society looks.
Think about that.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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nova
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
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556
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 10:00
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it sounds like parties are a dangerous thing...
in fact...
i prefer to see a mother with her 3-4 y.o child in a party insted of 15-16 y.o kids who thinks that parties ment to take drugs and be "cool"... (ofcourse im not talking about everyone)...
my point here is that parties do excist and if a parent expose his child to parties he can teach him to see it in another light and not like a "drug party". its known that ppl take drugs at parties but if you teach your child from the begining that parties are not ment to be like that then later i think the kid prespective will be different.
its like teaching your child how to cross the street or how to drive or how to go to school... everything can happaned on the way but if you'll teach him how to do it on the right way from the begining he'll had more tools how to deal with it.
keeping your children away from things will not teach them how to deal with it.
just flow baby... just flow... |
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Yuli
Retired
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Posted : Dec 15, 2003 10:14
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Shahar, suddenly I got it - we are talking about different parties altogether. Parties u r talking about happen 2 times a year at the best, have no more than 200 attendants, where average age is around 30 and I know these parties well - I would bring to one of these kids and dogs and even a parrot.
But to a rave like DETOX described, and that what happens mostly today, since the trance is no longer underground movement, I wont bring any of these, since there is no place for kids or dogs in such environment.
And to Nova -
Keeping the kids away of things wont teach them to handle - true.. But bringing them into the hell hole probably wont teach them either + that is what is nice in childhood.. U r a small kid, u do what small kids do, usually adults cant get it. The funny thing is, then when u r an adult u try to make your kid do things that u do, and be part of your 'pack', when it is obvious he is not supposed to be at the mo, and maybe it is better for him to play with his friends in the sand or whatever.
Do u bring your kid to make YOURSELF feel better for not leaving him at home, or to make the KIDDO feeling better I am not sure about the TRUE answer, because at any given time I believe the kiddo would like to see his mates, of his age and in their own world that u hardly can relate to at the mo since u r an ADULT
Just a point of view..
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Cyber Punk
IsraTrance Team
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759
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 12:55
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Yulik, of course baba !
But not about "different" parties, Shahar is talking about The Parties. All other events is not the party but, a party, rave... you name it.
-=Lead System Designer=- |
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alien-ated
Started Topics :
6
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88
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 13:27
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i guess many people here have a dog as a pet or more than one dog.
now
next time everyone of you get your dogs and children to the party
see what it turns out to be
sahar wants it to be a nature party where there is no resriction for humans / animals or either age too.
but, these parties are for humans and not animals, let animals have their own parties in the sittings.
one or two animals in a party of 100 human beings is oks and that is what you say should be allowed
but just think of a party where there are 100 human beings and a 100 dogs then probably you change your view. you might feel that your dog has taken you along to their party to keep an eye and take care of him
boom |
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